The analytics say it didn't help.

Don't guess that makes much difference though

EastSideAg2002 said:

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Ha, and here we go.

mazag08 said:

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Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.

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agree 100%

Well, if Beltran was named there goes my guy I wanted to replace Hinch with.

Just heard on ESPN the expectation for Cora is either five year suspension or on the ineligible list.

Said Beltran will skate by mainly because of the mlbpa.

Texas A&M said:

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We have one WS title and we'll be in contention for at least the next few years. It is extreme, but most of the pain (via lost draft picks) won't be felt until far enough out in the future for me not to lose any sleep now.

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This is pretty much the attitude that all Astros and all MLB teams that would do this would take: who cares? If it wins the WS, its fine. Even if we have to suck for a decade, we still won once...

The Mavericks haven't been that good since they won the NBA title. Even as a big Mav fan (not as big a pro sports fan anymore), I haven't lost much sleep. But to take the attitude that cheating is fine is horse*****

I do realize the fans don't have anything to do with what happens, but Astro fans that are good people should figure out how they can keep in mind what happened here with respect to the title. I wouldn't want to be associated with it if it were me.

DTP02 said:

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diehard03 said:

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I've heard that the Astros road record was better than their home record (I think I heard that this was true in both 2017 and 2019), is this true? If this isn't true you can disregard the rest of this post.

If the Astros had a better road vs home record,, is there any allegation that the Astros were cheating on the road as well?

If they weren't cheating on the road, is there some other explanation (this seems unlikely) that would explain the road vs home discrepancy and also suggest that it would have been even more pronounced if not for the cheating at home?

If there isn't some explanation for the discrepancy in terms of how the roster was set up or something, then it looks like the Astros either didn't benefit significantly from the cheating, or were even hurt by the cheating. I could see it being a detriment if the hitters were distracted from their routines by listening for the bangs or whatever.

If the Astros didn't benefit from the cheating, then I don't see that the asterisk talk is justified. Punish them for attempting to cheat and gain an advantage, but if they didn't actually gain an advantage then the team's accomplishment isn't sullied at all.

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You can't assume that everything was going to play out the exact same if you removed the cheating. We don't know how many games would have swung away from them. You could have knock-on effects:

Pitcher gets rocked in Houston. Pitcher then goes against Houston at home does poorly because he remembers the bad outing in Houston.

Now, I am not saying the entire road record is due to this. Their players were really good even without the cheating. But we are questioning the validity of a championship if teams were a disadvantage...even if only a psychological one.

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We can never know what would have happened, but that seems like a reach.

Seems more reasonable to conclude that the Astros weren't really helped by the cheating and actually may have been hurt by it.

That doesn't change the fact that they cheated, but it does mean that they earned their championship thru their play and not their attempts to cheat.

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I don't know. We had this year's world series, in game 180 or so, decided by going to the best pitcher in the pen one too many times.

It would be like me having a game night at my house and we were playing cards, and house rules were that everyone had an ipad and could peek at everyone's cards, then when everyone is doing it openly the guy that is losing grabs the rule book and says hey look the guy that's winning is cheating. Then everyone else puts down their ipads and agrees to punish the guy in the lead.

TxAgPreacher said:

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It would be like me having a game night at my house and we were playing cards, and house rules were that everyone had an ipad and could peek at everyone's cards, then when everyone is doing it openly the guy that is losing grabs the rule book and says hey look the guy that's winning is cheating. Then everyone else puts down their ipads and agrees to punish the guy in the lead.

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Be sure to post this on the Real Estate forum. Someone may have missed this hot take.

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We can never know what would have happened, but that seems like a reach.

Seems more reasonable to conclude that the Astros weren't really helped by the cheating and actually may have been hurt by it.

That doesn't change the fact that they cheated, but it does mean that they earned their championship thru their play and not their attempts to cheat.

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Lol wat?

It seems more reasonable...why? Because you said so? Because you just said at they earned their championship thru their play...where they cheated?

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I don't know. We had this year's world series, in game 180 or so, decided by going to the best pitcher in the pen one too many times.

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Don't do that to Howie.

How about the season was decided by a veteran hitter, who hit .344 at age 35, and who went down and got a great pitch...and hit it barely fair.