***** Official Houston Astros 2019 Season Thread *****

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bearkatag15
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redline248
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mazag08 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27685804/with-mike-trout-baseball-rat-alex-bregman-earn-al-mvp

Uhhhh..

Why is Odor being mentioned with Trout and Bregman?
he made honorable list for AL least valuable player
(seriously)

Chris Davis won

edit: I thought you had quoted my link...sorry haven't read the espn stuff, yet.
Philip J Fry
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redline248 said:

https://theathletic.com/1241082/2019/09/26/stark-handing-out-mlbs-end-of-season-awards-from-cy-young-to-cy-yuk-mvp-to-lvp/

edit: not sure why the pic shows up so small. click to enlarge
Quote:

AL MVP: Mike Trout, Angels
Can a guy who misses the last three weeks of a baseball season really win an MVP award? Well, not just any guy can. But Mike Trout can. And should.
I should tell you right at the top, though, that this has never happened! No player has even missed his team's final seven games (or more) of any season and still won an MVP trophy, according to STATS LLC. The current standard for that sort of thing was set by Dick Allen, who missed the final six games in 1972.
But Trout will wind up sitting out the Angels' final 19 games of this season. And in a world in which September narratives have written many an MVP script, that theoretically has opened the door for Alex Bregman to steal this trophy away. But did it? Should it? I tried talking myself into that idea, just to see if it felt right.
The case for Bregman goes like this: A) He played for the best team in baseball B) He was a huge reason the Astros survived so many key injuries . C) He played 58 games at shortstop to cover the loss of Carlos Correa D) He's going to be the first American Leaguer with at least 30 more walks than strikeouts since Jason Giambi (129 BB, 83 K) in 2001 E) Thanks in part to Trout's injury, Bregman is going to wind up leading Trout in quite a few counting stats (games, runs, RBIs, times on base, extra-base hits, etc.) And F) he's fun!
So is all of that compelling and meaningful? Heck, yeah it is. And so is this: Even when Trout was on the field, Bregman still had the bigger finish.

MVP candidates' second half

But even after digesting every bit of that info, I still felt this way: To vote for Bregman, you almost had to go into this looking for reasons to justify that vote.
So why Trout, even in a season in which he missed so much time and his team wasn't within five games of a playoff spot at any point after July?
OK, first of all, he's Mike Freaking Trout. He's the best player alive. And we've already witnessed too many MVP elections in which it felt as if voters were searching for reasons to vote for somebody else, just because it gets so boring electing the same guy every darned year.
Second, we're talking about a man who leads his league in OBP, Slugging, OPS, HR ratio and Wins Above Replacement, among other stuff. And since World War II, only one player Ted Williams, in 1947 had as good an OPS as Trout, led his league in all those categories and didn't wind up with an MVP award. (Then again, I'm not sure how those 1947 voters would have checked a Wins Above Replacement leader board that hadn't been invented yet. But that's a whole 'nother story.)
So as with all Mike Trout MVP elections, this one comes down to how you define "value." If this were 1999, or 1979, or certainly 1939, Alex Bregman would have won this thing because "value" in that world revolved almost exclusively around the question: Did your team win or not? But in this world, with our advanced 21st-century mindset firmly in place, here's what I think is clear:
The most valuable player in the American League is the same dude who's really the most valuable player every year Michael N. Trout.
Most top-2 MVP finishes
Barry Bonds 9
Stan Musial 7
Albert Pujols 7
Mike Trout 7*
(* if he finishes in top two this year)

My MVP "ballot": 1) Trout, 2) Bregman, 3) Marcus Semien, 4) D.J. LeMahieu, 5) Xander Bogaerts, 6) George Springer, 7) Mookie Betts, 8) Nelson Cruz, 9) Matt Chapman, 10) Francisco Lindor.



The author is clearly biased due to having Trouts dick down his throat.
redline248
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Jayson Stark, btw
Bregxit
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MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
redline248
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I do think reasons like "he's Mike freaking Trout" and "he should win every year" aren't good reasons.
Deluxe
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Quick lineup of death wRC+ update:

Springer 153
Altuve 137
Brantley 134
Bregman 168
Alvarez 185
Gurriel 133
Correa 142
Tucker 136
Chirinos 116

Maldy 117
Diaz 114
Straw 96
Toro 89
Reddick 89
Marisnick 86
Deluxe
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Farmer1906
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Quote:

Straw 96
Toro 89
Reddick 89
Marisnick 86


Bench them all!
blindey
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Teddy Perkins said:


Quote:

Do you look at each other's sports and say, "Why don't teams do this?"
MOREY: It just seems like such a waste to have the pitcher hit ever.
LUHNOW: I'd love for you to talk to Verlander and tell him he's coming out in the third inning because we're going to pinch hit for him.
MOREY: My plan would be to convince Kate [Upton] and then have her tell Justin.
LUHNOW: No, we've tried that one.

SquirrellyDan
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Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
No offense, and no pun intended, but aren't the 27 Yankees considered the best offense ever? We don't even have the best numbers in the majors this year.

Now, combine our hitting numbers with our pitching numbers, and I think a case can be made for this being the best overall team ever fielded.
willjohnathan
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SquirrellyDan said:


No offense, and no pun intended, but aren't the 27 Yankees considered the best offense ever? We don't even have the best numbers in the majors this year.

Now, combine our hitting numbers with our pitching numbers, and I think a case can be made for this being the best overall team ever fielded.
We do by wrc+ and also have the highest slugging %. Not sure how it works that we are leading in wrc+ but behind a couple teams in runs scored.

Edit: Also,not to be a homer, but I am not trading our lineup for anyones.
Harry Dunne
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These are conversations we can have after 11 postseason wins. Otherwise the conversation will be comparing us to the 2001 Mariners.
redline248
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damn, I love that movie
MuckRaker96
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Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.



astros4545
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MuckRaker96 said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.






**** it

I'll compare us to them...except we are better
Big Al 1992
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MuckRaker96 said:

Farmer1906 said:

This has to be one of the most dominant back to back pitching performances ever.
33 years ago this week

September 23, 1986
Astros 4, Dodgers 0
Jim Deshaies complete game 2 hit shutout, strikes out first 8 batters in a row, 10 total.

September 24, 1986
Astros 6, Giants 0
Nolan Ryan 8 innings, 1 hit, 12 strikeouts.

September 25, 1986
Astros 2, Giants 0
Mike Scott, no hitter, 13 strikeouts, Astros win the West. Only pitcher in history to clinch a division with a no-hitter.


Boys, we were 2 outs away from a no-hitter 33 years to the day after Scotty's.




Great find - I was gonna post the same. Lucky enough to be at both those games, left high school early to go to them - Ryan and then Scotty. Ryan won and if the other team in contention had lost we would have clinched before Scotty even took the mound. That team won so Scotty got to earn it all by himself.
Bregxit
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MuckRaker96 said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.






Why are you chowder heads coming at me? You asked "who" and I answered. Go argue with Blummer, Kalas, Harold Reynolds, etc.
Mr.Ackar07
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willjohnathan said:

SquirrellyDan said:


No offense, and no pun intended, but aren't the 27 Yankees considered the best offense ever? We don't even have the best numbers in the majors this year.

Now, combine our hitting numbers with our pitching numbers, and I think a case can be made for this being the best overall team ever fielded.
We do by wrc+ and also have the highest slugging %. Not sure how it works that we are leading in wrc+ but behind a couple teams in runs scored.

Edit: Also,not to be a homer, but I am not trading our lineup for anyones.
There is an adjustment for the offensive capabilities of the ballparks played in. Runs count for more in the A's Coliseum then they do at Coors' Field.
Ag13
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After their last starts, Cole's ERA is sitting at 2.52 whereas JV's is 2.53.

Cole has an insurmountable lead on Strikeouts with 1 start left for both of them: 316 vs 288.

Cole is is 19-5 and Verlander is 20-6

If the following happens, Cole will win the Triple Crown, right?
  • JV loses or gets a ND in his last start on Saturday
  • Cole maintains a lower ERA
  • Cole gets win in last start Sunday
They would both finish with 20 wins so Cole isn't technically the "leader", but, he would have a higher winning percentage.

If Cole gets Triple Crown, I don't think it's possible to NOT give him Cy Young. I thought JV's no hitter would end up putting him over the edge but just can't image a triple crown winner not getting it.

What a year - Cole and Verlander should be in MVP discussion as much as Bregman.

As a side note, would love to see Justin get 12 strikeouts on Saturday and hit 300 for the season (and he would pass 3k for career).
Deluxe
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I feel like the writers should collude and give both guys an equal number of first/second place votes
Ag13
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Deluxe said:

I feel like the writers should collude and give both guys an equal number of first/second place votes
Wouldn't that be something. Schilling and Johnson were co-mvp's of the 2001 World Series (well deserved).
Prosperdick
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Big Al 1992 said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Farmer1906 said:

This has to be one of the most dominant back to back pitching performances ever.
33 years ago this week

September 23, 1986
Astros 4, Dodgers 0
Jim Deshaies complete game 2 hit shutout, strikes out first 8 batters in a row, 10 total.

September 24, 1986
Astros 6, Giants 0
Nolan Ryan 8 innings, 1 hit, 12 strikeouts.

September 25, 1986
Astros 2, Giants 0
Mike Scott, no hitter, 13 strikeouts, Astros win the West. Only pitcher in history to clinch a division with a no-hitter.


Boys, we were 2 outs away from a no-hitter 33 years to the day after Scotty's.




Great find - I was gonna post the same. Lucky enough to be at both those games, left high school early to go to them - Ryan and then Scotty. Ryan won and if the other team in contention had lost we would have clinched before Scotty even took the mound. That team won so Scotty got to earn it all by himself.
Never forget fat boy Tommy Lasagna PINCH HIT in the 3rd inning for his pitcher to keep Jim from being the first pitcher ever to strike-out the team in 3 innings (funny that Luhnow makes a joke about pinch-hitting in the 3rd for Verlander).
Troutslime
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MuckRaker96 said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.






Apples to oranges considering the advent of relief pitching and overall league depth.
Ag_07
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I said a long time ago that I would not be opposed to Cole getting the Cy Young and JV getting the MVP.
Farmer1906
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Farmer1906
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Troutslime said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.






Apples to oranges considering the advent of relief pitching and overall league depth.
As Adam Ottavino said, "I would strike Babe Ruth out every time".

The old-timers wouldn't be able to hit today's pitching.

AstroAggie15
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Farmer1906 said:




Shocker
Deluxe
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It would also be interesting to see what a current team would do playing home games in a ballpark like the 1927 Yankees (280 down the lines, 480 to straight away center... easy HRs down the lines, gaps wide open for doubles/triples).

To me, the more apt comparison for this Astros team is the 1976 Reds (fewer HRs but similar top-to-bottom OPS+):

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1976.shtml
rosco511
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SquirrellyDan said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
No offense, and no pun intended, but aren't the 27 Yankees considered the best offense ever? We don't even have the best numbers in the majors this year.

Now, combine our hitting numbers with our pitching numbers, and I think a case can be made for this being the best overall team ever fielded.


The point of wrc+ is to be able to compare production based on different ballparks and different eras. Our WRC+ is by the best in baseball and is at the same level of the '27 Yankees. We are the best offense in baseball this season and are even better than our offense in 2017 and on the same level as the '27 Yankees. Just sit back and enjoy and appreciate it!
CFTXAG10
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Farmer1906 said:


So probably 1pm again?
mathguy86
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Prosperdick said:


Never forget fat boy Tommy Lasagna PINCH HIT in the 3rd inning for his pitcher to keep Jim from being the first pitcher ever to strike-out the team in 3 innings (funny that Luhnow makes a joke about pinch-hitting in the 3rd for Verlander).
I'm pretty sure that the 9th hitter was Fernando and he was the one to break the streak. I am certain Fernando was the opposing pitcher. I guess I will go dig up the box score.

And by the way, **** that fat boy Tommy lasagna.

ETA. Damn. I missed. Fernando was the day before. That fat ass did indeed PH for the pitcher. But I am correct in that I said to **** fat boy Tommy Lasagna
SquirrellyDan
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rosco511 said:

SquirrellyDan said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
No offense, and no pun intended, but aren't the 27 Yankees considered the best offense ever? We don't even have the best numbers in the majors this year.

Now, combine our hitting numbers with our pitching numbers, and I think a case can be made for this being the best overall team ever fielded.


The point of wrc+ is to be able to compare production based on different ballparks and different eras. Our WRC+ is by the best in baseball and is at the same level of the '27 Yankees. We are the best offense in baseball this season and are even better than our offense in 2017 and on the same level as the '27 Yankees. Just sit back and enjoy and appreciate it!
Good points, but I'm still able to fully enjoy it while not going all in on them being the best lineup ever.

tjholley16
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We would SWEEP the '27 Yankees!!

Mostly because they have all been dead for years and wouldn't put up much of a fight
DVC2010
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MuckRaker96 said:

Bregxit said:

MuckRaker96 said:

Who is comparing us to the 27 yankees?


Astros are tied with them for highest wRC ever. It has been brought up a few times i n the last week during our games and on MLB network.
The '27 Yankees hit .307 as a team. They slugged .488 as a team. They finished 110-44 and swept the World Series

They had 158 home runs. No other team had more than 56. Babe Ruth had 60 by himself.

They had teammates produce arguably two of the greatest 10 seasons in MLB history.

Ruth hit 60 HR, drove in 165, hit .356 and slugged .772
Gehrig hit 47 HR, drove in 173, hit .373 and slugged .765


Nobody compares to the '27 Yankees.





wRC+ accounts for the relative value of different outcomes (e.g., how much more valuable is a double than a single than a walk?), adjusts for park factors (bet you didn't know Minute Maid is a pitcher's park), and normalizes the results to league average.

You can't compare most stats across eras because the run environment changes. Tons of factors contribute to this; ball composition is one that is in the headlines lately. So instead of comparing rate stats of the 1927 Yankees to the same stats of the 2019 Astros, we compare the former to their own league and the latter to this year's American League.

And the 2019 Astros have as large an offensive advantage over the rest of the AL as the Yankees did in 1927. This is, indeed, a historically great offense.