***** Official 2017 TEX vs HOU Trash Talking Thread *****

413,934 Views | 3985 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by tjack16
dermdoc
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Macarthur said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

so the Houston Texans are fine playing the Cowboys in JerryWorld but the Astros prefer to travel to Tampa instead.

Do you not see the difference between a preseason game and a series that has playoff implications? The Astros did not think it was fair to the rest of the MLB teams who are competing with the Rangers in the wildcard to have the Rangers play an extra 3 games in their home ballpark. This is not that difficult to comprehend.
so you are thinking of all the other MLB teams, but forcing the rangers to go on a 12 game road trip to end the season is fine because its fairer for everyone else?

If Houston clinches the division with 10 games to play are they going to play all their starters versus the Rangers since it wont be fair to other teams if they don't?

The Rangers have every right to say no to the proposal, which they did, but the Astros did not think it was fair to everyone else to give the Rangers an extra three games at home. It is just not that difficult to comprehend, but it is amusing that the Rangers (and a lot of people on here) are acting like the Rangers were doing some sort of goodwill gesture for making an offer that would give them an extra three games at home.

You can call it amusing all you want, but I think the Rangers made a more than reasonable offer.
I don't.
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dermdoc
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And just or not I think the Rangers are going to get roasted on social media and talk shows. Unfortunately in today's world perception is reality. We shall see.
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Nuke LaLoosh
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But hey the rangers are doing this, and that surely makes up for it right?
Aggie_Eric98
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Nuke LaLoosh said:



But hey the rangers are doing this, and that surely makes up for it right?
I am sure Houston will send it back stating they didn't give enough.
Macarthur
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They already have taken it in the shorts. Social media is a mindless mob.

I think Ryan started all this with his *****ing. I actually think what Ryan did is pretty reprehensable because he is using this tragedy to manipulate public opinion on this when there is way more to this deal than just switching home and home.
Nuke LaLoosh
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Alright guys... I legit think it was a pretty crappy decision by the Rangers, but there's no reason to get actual feelings hurt on here. AP is good people and I don't want people actually taking my comments to heart... this is a trash talking thread after all!
Prosperdick
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If anyone can't see that the poor optics of stating "it's unfair or an inconvenience to Ranger ticket holders" obviously has no clue what it's like to live in a shelter for an extended period of time, lose your life-long home to a flood, or God forbid lose friends or family due to flooding.

Anyone who uses the term "inconvenience" is about as ****ing obtuse as it gets.

This was about showing compassion to a sister Texas city in crisis and simply swapping out series...period. As soon as Daniels starts talking about fairness, revenue, MLB precedence and all his other platitudes trying to appear magnanimous falls on VERY deaf ears.
Macarthur
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friscodick said:

If anyone can't see that the poor optics of stating "it's unfair or an inconvenience to Ranger ticket holders" obviously has no clue what it's like to live in a shelter for an extended period of time, lose your life-long home to a flood, or God forbid lose friends or family due to flooding.

Anyone who uses the term "inconvenience" is about as ****ing obtuse as it gets.

This was about showing compassion to a sister Texas city in crisis and simply swapping out series...period. As soon as Daniels starts talking about fairness, revenue, MLB precedence and all his other platitudes trying to appear magnanimous falls on VERY deaf ears.

But it's okay for the Astros to use fairness to the rest of the league as an excuse?
Aggie_Eric98
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friscodick said:

This was about showing compassion to a sister Texas city in crisis and simply swapping out series...period. As soon as Daniels starts talking about fairness, revenue, MLB precedence and all his other platitudes trying to appear magnanimous falls on VERY deaf ears.
Houston is the one complaining it isn't fair to give the Rangers 3 more games in their stadium in which they have not sold a single ticket in advance for.
dermdoc
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Astros get a pass because they have been through a tragedy. Rangers and their fans seem to have a hard time comprehending that fact. And they will rightly get blasted in the court of public opinion.
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Macarthur
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dermdoc said:

Astros get a pass because they have been through a tragedy. Rangers and their fans seem to have a hard time comprehending that fact. And they will rightly get blasted in the court of public opinion.

Yeah, you're right. Rangers fans can't comprehend the people of Houston are suffering. We deserve to get ripped.

Good grief...
dermdoc
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Just commenting on why it is okay for the Astros to use "fairness" with different impact than the Rangers can. Which is what you questioned in your post I believ. This is not a "fair" deal and Ranger fans seem to have a hard time understanding that. And that public opinion is going to hold the Rangers to a different standard than the Astros. Not being accusatory, I just know how this works. Sorry.
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TrillOBrien
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Farmer1906 said:

The Cowboys were also generous enough to lend their facilities to the Texans this week as well.
As a lifelong Cowboys hater, Jerry and his organization earned some respect from me for their generosity. Arlington...on the other hand, can EAD
TrillOBrien
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Nuke LaLoosh said:



But hey the rangers are doing this, and that surely makes up for it right?
"Let's donate money that isn't even ours to make ourselves look like we care about this natural disaster"
Prosperdick
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Does anyone think if Harvey had hit a week earlier (and still required the moving of games) that Daniels would have agreed to a swapping of series? Would that extra week be enough time to not inconvenience ticket holders?

I have a feeling he simply would have point to the extended road trip for the Rangers and MLB precedence.

I think what people are missing is Houston understands it's not ideal for the Rangers but THAT'S what compassion is all about...if it was easy it wouldn't require it.
Macarthur
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If anyone is interested in how a life long baseball person that is objective views this....

J. Sheean

As you've probably heard by now, the Rangers/Astros series originally scheduled to be played at Minute Maid Park this week has been moved to Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg due to the flooding in Houston. This isn't all that rare an occurrence; every few years, a series ends up being relocated due to one incident or another.

Back in 2015, civil unrest in Baltimore caused the Orioles and Rays to play a series scheduled for Camden Yards at Tropicana Field. The Orioles were the "home" team -- batted last and everything -- but the games were played at The Trop and were not "exchanged" for later home dates. Back in 2008, the Astros played a late-season series with the Cubs at Miller Park, due to Hurricane Ike's effects on Houston. The year before that, the Indians and Angels dodged a snowstorm in Cleveland by playing up in Milwaukee as well.

This particular bit of rescheduling seems obvious. While the ballpark in Houston is unscathed, the city itself is underwater. Traveling in and around it is challenging at best, and the city has no business assigning public-safety officers to a ballgame this week. Given the Orioles/Rays series as a recent example of a team sacrificing home games, and other examples of teams moving weather-challenged series to neutral sites with domes, playing these games in St. Pete shouldn't have raised eyebrows.

Enter Reid Ryan. Ryan, the Astros president, posted a version of events that threw the Rangers under the bus. "We went to the Rangers and said hey let's switch series. ... They rejected that and didn't want to do that. The Rangers wanted us to play the next 3 days at their place, but they did not want to trade series with us."

That's all factually correct, but it leaves out a fairly important point: changing home dates on one day's notice, and changing home dates on four weeks' notice, are not equivalent burdens.

Let's work the problem. Start with this: all of what follows is in the framework of baseball and the concerns of these teams. I am well aware that there is a bigger picture, but presumably Reid Ryan was as well when he threw his tantrum. Let's concede that these three games were going to be played, and they were absolutely not going to be played in Houston this week. That left three options.

Swap Home Series

This is one of those solutions that seems fair on the surface, but falls apart when you look at it just a little more closely. The Astros are scheduled to go to Arlington for three games September 25-27, during the season's final week. Ryan, and presumably other members of the Astros' braintrust, wanted to switch the two series, play at Arlington this week and have the Rangers come to Houston next month.

The biggest problem with that is it takes the burden of the rescheduling and lays it entirely at the feet of Rangers ticket holders. Forget the logistics; the Rangers were prepared to host three baseball games this week, just as the staff at The Trop will. Their fans, however, would have had their September tickets turned into August ones on a day's notice. Some may have been able to attend in any case, but no doubt many not only would not have, they also would not have been able to move their tickets on the secondary market. (As a practical matter, it would have fallen to the Rangers to refund or exchange the tickets of fans unable to make the earlier game dates.)

This move would have benefited those with tickets to this week's contests -- now rescheduled with plenty of notice -- and the Astros themselves, who would not lose three home dates. In the discussion, there's some elision between "Houston" and "the Astros." The vast majority of Astros fans are unaffected and would be unaffected by wherever the game was to be played: they'll be watching on television or following on the radio.

This would not have been an equal swap. It would have merely shifted the burdens and the costs from the Astros to the Rangers, from Astros ticket holders to Rangers ticket holders.

Play At Arlington

Once a series swap wasn't in play, this was the most obvious solution. Per multiple reports, the Rangers were willing to host the games in the manner the Rays hosted the Orioles -- treating the visitors as the home team -- while giving the Astros all the revenue. This would have certainly generated more money for the Astros than moving the series to Florida will, and by Thursday could well have become an event that Texans could rally around, raising money for hurricane victims as the state's two teams squared off in a pennant race.

The Astros were unwilling to do this. Ryan cited "the integrity of the schedule," which is a nice turn of phrase that apparently also includes "asking the Rangers to extend a long road trip by three games down the stretch" under its umbrella. It's not as if these games are critical to the Astros, who have a 13-game lead in the AL West and entered the night with a six-game lead over the Red Sox for the #1 seed in the American League. They would even keep the single most important part of home-field advantage, batting last. Despite all of these concessions, the Astros -- who had to know they would be losing the three home games under any circumstance -- demurred.

Play At Tropicana Field

It's hard to see choosing Tropicana Field over Globe Life Stadium as anything other than spiteful. On short notice, more money would have been made in Arlington than will be made in St. Pete. I guess there's always the possibility of curious looky-loos drawn to a spectacle, but this market doesn't show up for its own successful team, I doubt it's going to knock down the doors for two visitors passing through.

This was the worst of all possible options, maximizing inconvenience for everyone while minimizing revenue and passing up an opportunity to galvanize the state. It's a shame the Astros felt the need to end up here. I understand being frustrated over not getting the series swap you wanted, but with that off the table, choose the next-best option. Don't run off to Florida and cite "the integrity of the schedule."

--

I recognize that emotions are high, but to me, the Rangers didn't do anything wrong here. There was a hurricane in Houston in August that rendered the city unable to host baseball games. That the solution to that should have fallen on Rangers fans holding tickets to September games strikes me as random. The Rangers offered their stadium and the money they'd make opening it for three days; what they weren't willing to do was stiff their own fans by changing the schedule on short notice. The Astros, or at least Reid Ryan, seem to think Rangers fans should have carried that weight. I can't say I see the argument.

This isn't about the thousands of Houstonians suffering tonight, fearful, lost, shocked. This is about two businesses having a fight, each protecting their self-interest. The city of Houston isn't being ravaged by Jon Daniels. Adrian Beltre isn't traipsing through H-Town gleefully tearing open sandbags. This is a dispute between spectacularly rich business entities. Let's not create gods and monsters of them.

There is no right and wrong here, and looking for it -- stirring up animus to win a public-relations war -- is the only immorality I see.
dermdoc
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I wonder how many people will read that vs what is in USA Today, Mike and Mike, etc.? IMHO, the Rangers are going to look like *******s in the court of public opinion. We shall see.
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SupaManu
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As Cubs fan an neutral observer, i wouldnt care how the rangers looked, they made the right call IMO, They are fighting for a playoff spot and swapping would give them a killer road trip at the end of the season. I also have no problem with the astros turning down the games in Arlington. The pettiness from Ryan is what blew this up and its not a good look for him.
TXAggie2011
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Macarthur said:

TXAggie2011 said:

Quote:

When the storm rolled through a few years ago and affected Balitimore, they did something very similar to what Texas is proposing.


When Irene rolled through there was a very public fight between the Orioles and Yankees and MLB got involved and nixed the Yankees' Rangers like solution of moving a game to New York from Baltimore.

The scenario is probably not a good comparison because of diff circumstances, but the Yankees did make other offers that Balt rejected.


Sure, the Yankees wanted to play on another day than what Baltimore offered but the point was the Rangers-like solution brought up was shut down by the league and there isn't the claimed precedent (at least from the Irene incident.)
TXAggie2011
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TrillOBrien said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:



But hey the rangers are doing this, and that surely makes up for it right?
"Let's donate money that isn't even ours to make ourselves look like we care about this natural disaster"


It's not just that, it's donating money that they'd already be giving away to a raffle winner and charity.

It's pretty weak and in line with an ownership group that just gouged the city of Arlington for a new stadium.
DallasAg 94
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I think you might be surprised at the long-term response. Only Rangers and Astros fans will care.

For the Astros' front office, the only two opinions that ultimately will matter are the Astros' players and the Astros' fans.

Their fans... many of whom are in DFW because of the flooding could have salvaged seeing them play.
Their players... will now be in Tampa, instead of DFW with their families.

If the Astros fade the rest of the season and lose early in the playoffs, this decision coupled with the lack of a trade deadline move, will be judged by both fans and players.

If the NYM series is moved to Tampa, as well... it could have huge implications on how those groups respond.

This isn't a flame on the Astros, but a perspective of long-term opinion impact.

It was unfortunate that Reid Ryan tried to score points with his fans if this blows up in his face.
agent-maroon
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TXAggie2011 said:

Quote:

When the storm rolled through a few years ago and affected Balitimore, they did something very similar to what Texas is proposing.


When Irene rolled through there was a very public fight between the Orioles and Yankees and MLB got involved and nixed the Yankees' Rangers like solution of moving a game to New York from Baltimore.

The Astros already did this with hurricane Ike. They played a series against the Cubs in Milwaukee for the same reasons that they're playing in Tampa vs the Rangers.

Quit trying to act like this is some sort of fresh evil being thrust on to the Astros. They already set the precedent some 9 years ago
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rosco511
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Macarthur said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

so the Houston Texans are fine playing the Cowboys in JerryWorld but the Astros prefer to travel to Tampa instead.

Do you not see the difference between a preseason game and a series that has playoff implications? The Astros did not think it was fair to the rest of the MLB teams who are competing with the Rangers in the wildcard to have the Rangers play an extra 3 games in their home ballpark. This is not that difficult to comprehend.
so you are thinking of all the other MLB teams, but forcing the rangers to go on a 12 game road trip to end the season is fine because its fairer for everyone else?

If Houston clinches the division with 10 games to play are they going to play all their starters versus the Rangers since it wont be fair to other teams if they don't?

The Rangers have every right to say no to the proposal, which they did, but the Astros did not think it was fair to everyone else to give the Rangers an extra three games at home. It is just not that difficult to comprehend, but it is amusing that the Rangers (and a lot of people on here) are acting like the Rangers were doing some sort of goodwill gesture for making an offer that would give them an extra three games at home.

You can call it amusing all you want, but I think the Rangers made a more than reasonable offer.
It is amusing because the offer is only reasonable from the Rangers perspective. It is not reasonable to the rest of the teams in the wildcard hunt with the Rangers (which teams I could easily see having to consent to such a schedule change) or the Astros because then would have to be playing the opponent on the opponent's home field. The only potential reasonable offers would be to play on a neutral field or to swap the home series because such option was still potentially available. The Rangers deemed the second option unreasonable from their perspective so made their choice to just play on a neutral field, and both sides have to live with the consequences and public perception of such choices.
SupaManu
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rosco511 said:

Macarthur said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

rosco511 said:

Aggie_Eric98 said:

so the Houston Texans are fine playing the Cowboys in JerryWorld but the Astros prefer to travel to Tampa instead.

Do you not see the difference between a preseason game and a series that has playoff implications? The Astros did not think it was fair to the rest of the MLB teams who are competing with the Rangers in the wildcard to have the Rangers play an extra 3 games in their home ballpark. This is not that difficult to comprehend.
so you are thinking of all the other MLB teams, but forcing the rangers to go on a 12 game road trip to end the season is fine because its fairer for everyone else?

If Houston clinches the division with 10 games to play are they going to play all their starters versus the Rangers since it wont be fair to other teams if they don't?

The Rangers have every right to say no to the proposal, which they did, but the Astros did not think it was fair to everyone else to give the Rangers an extra three games at home. It is just not that difficult to comprehend, but it is amusing that the Rangers (and a lot of people on here) are acting like the Rangers were doing some sort of goodwill gesture for making an offer that would give them an extra three games at home.

You can call it amusing all you want, but I think the Rangers made a more than reasonable offer.
It is amusing because the offer is only reasonable from the Rangers perspective. It is not reasonable to the rest of the teams in the wildcard hunt with the Rangers (which teams I could easily see having to consent to such a schedule change) or the Astros because then would have to be playing the opponent on the opponent's home field. The only potential reasonable offers would be to play on a neutral field or to swap the home series because such option was still potentially available. The Rangers deemed the second option unreasonable from their perspective so made their choice to just play on a neutral field, and both sides have to live with the consequences and public perception of such choices.
I don't think swapping was reasonable either, it really impacts the rangers wild card run down the stretch. Im a fan of neither team but i think a neutral site game ultimately was the only reasonable solution.
TXAggie2011
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Quote:

The Astros already did this with hurricane Ike. They played a series against the Cubs in Milwaukee for the same reasons that they're playing in Tampa vs the Rangers.


I've never said or suggested that there wasn't precedent of playing a game 90 miles from the opponent's home field.

But at least they didn't play at Wrigley and the third game was scheduled for Houston at the end of the season.

So no, I don't think that's absolutely fantastic precedent for the Rangers getting three games at their own park.

There is just as much precedent, speaking of Milwaukee, of the Angels-Indiana series that was moved there rather than to a true home field.
Mathguy64
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That solution was dictated by Bud Selig.
rosco511
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Which is why I said the Rangers considered it to be unreasonable from the perspective so they chose to decline it. But in the grand of schemes, it was more reasonable to the rest of the league than the "offer" that so many on here are claiming was so nice of the Rangers, which again was an offer that only benefitted the Rangers.
TXAggie2011
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Calling the Rangers' offer "more than reasonable" suggests the Rangers passed over options that would be more favorable to them.

They offered to play games at their own ballpark and donate money from those extra games already earmarked to be donated to charity (and some other money? that wasn't supposed be there's, either)

It can't get much more favorable than that.
SupaManu
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TXAggie2011 said:

Calling the Rangers' offer "more than reasonable" suggests the Rangers passed over options that would be more favorable to them.

They offered to play games at their own ballpark and donate money from those extra games already earmarked to be donated to charity (and some other money? that wasn't supposed be there's, either)

It can't get much more favorable than that.

Sure it could, they could bat last as well
Quincey P. Morris
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I think at this point it has been made abundantly clear that about the only thing the Rangers weren't willing to do was swap series. That's it. They suggested Arlington, they didn't insist on it. Not knowing anything about the schedule or logistics of getting it set up, I'm a little surprised nobody considered the Alamo Dome. I know the dimensions are wonky, but it would have been a neutral site that made more sense than Florida. I suppose they got hammered with some rain to so maybe it wasn't viable?
TXAggie2011
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Quote:


This isn't a flame on the Astros, but a perspective of long-term opinion impact.


You're in no position offer perspective on how the Houston fan base will react to this.

You've proven time and time again across Texags you're an awkward weirdo who lives in his own special home office bubble that you don't really have perspective on the Rangers' fan base yet alone folks in a completely different situation.
TXAggie2011
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Lucky #007 said:

I think at this point it has been made abundantly clear that about the only thing the Rangers weren't willing to do was swap series. That's it. They suggested Arlington, they didn't insist on it. Not knowing anything about the schedule or logistics of getting it set up, I'm a little surprised nobody considered the Alamo Dome. I know the dimensions are wonky, but it would have been a neutral site that made more sense than Florida. I suppose they got hammered with some rain to so maybe it wasn't viable?


Alamodome has a football game to host Saturday; would be tough to pull off even with more notice and without the football game, and the club would possibly again be without a home over the weekend.
TXAggie2011
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And for the record, I don't think the Rangers are being mean or evil here, but I don't think they've shown to be helpful or willing to offer any good ideas for getting the games played or shown any real empathy with the situation and what Houston is dealing with.
DallasAg 94
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TXAggie2011 said:

Quote:


This isn't a flame on the Astros, but a perspective of long-term opinion impact.


You're in no position offer perspective on how the Houston fan base will react to this.

You've proven time and time again across Texags you're an awkward weirdo who lives in his own special home office bubble that you don't really have perspective on the Rangers' fan base yet alone folks in a completely different situation.
You are clearly more comfortable supporting the Astros than the Rangers. I want to encourage you to follow them, instead of the Rangers.
Quincey P. Morris
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How many ideas are there? There's pretty much swap series, play all games in Arlington, or play at a neutral site. I think saying they haven't shown any empathy because they weren't willing to swap the series, which is all that has happened, is overly harsh.
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