AccidentProne said:

---

irish pete ag06 said:

---

Street_Cred_Norm said:

---

I want to fight aggie1906.

Oh, we have the best starting rotation ( without Hamels) ERA in BASEBALL. Once the bats heat up, and they will, everyone is f *****.

---

Wrong. 3rd best.


24th in FIP


23rd in xFIP


And in what is probably the best of the predictive pitching stats... 27th in SIERA


Not talking smack. Just posting facts.

---

The only fact you posted was the Rangers have the 3rd best ERA in baseball. Predictive metrics are not facts

---

Real facts are Rangers are 3rd in ERA and 1st in quality starts.

For as much as you guys pump up sabermetrics, it's almost as if you don't actually know what any of it measures. Both FIP and xFIP measure what a pitcher's ERA should be if they experience league average, not what actually happened in the game.

I'm not saying they are bad metrics to follow. I'm saying that calling them facts is absurd.


FIP

Quote:

---

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) measures what a player's ERA would look like over a given period of time if the pitcher were to have experienced league average results on balls in play and league average timing.

---

xFIP

Quote:

---

It's calculated in the same way as FIP, except it replaces a pitcher's home run total with an estimate of how many home runs they should have allowed given the number of fly balls they surrendered while assuming a league average home run to fly ball percentage (between 9 and 10% depending on the year).

---

You understand that every piece of that description of the data is a fact in the same way that ERA is, right? None of them are perfect, but no one is going in and tinkering with the stats or interjecting opinions. So they are standard observations based on recorded outcomes across the league.

You may not agree with them (and they are often misused), but they are incontrovertible facts.

AccidentProne said:

---

For as much as you guys pump up sabermetrics, it's almost as if you don't actually know what any of it measures. Both FIP and xFIP measure what a pitcher's ERA should be if they experience league average, not what actually happened in the game.

I'm not saying they are bad metrics to follow. I'm saying that calling them facts is absurd.


FIP

Quote:

---

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) measures what a player's ERA would look like over a given period of time if the pitcher were to have experienced league average results on balls in play and league average timing.

---

xFIP

Quote:

---

It's calculated in the same way as FIP, except it replaces a pitcher's home run total with an estimate of how many home runs they should have allowed given the number of fly balls they surrendered while assuming a league average home run to fly ball percentage (between 9 and 10% depending on the year).

---

---

How is that absurd? It's still based upon what happened in the game. They are not just pulled out of thin air. Neither are the league averages used in FIP or xFIP.

Plus they rely on the fact that balls put into play are distributed as hits in a probabilistic fashion, where even some well struck balls become outs and weak grounders to the left side of the infield can be beaten out by a fast runner. Walks, strikeouts and home runs given up tend to be better predictors of a pitcher's true talent because they are (mostly, see catchers and umpires) a result of the pitcher's skills weighed against those of the hitters he faces.

Street_Cred_Norm said:

---

I want to fight aggie1906.

Oh, we have the best starting rotation ( without Hamels) ERA in BASEBALL. Once the bats heat up, and they will, everyone is f *****.

---

How did I miss this one until now?

AccidentProne said:

---

aggie1906 said:

---

Street_Cred_Norm said:

---

I want to fight aggie1906.

Oh, we have the best starting rotation ( without Hamels) ERA in BASEBALL. Once the bats heat up, and they will, everyone is f *****.

---

How did I miss this one until now?

---

You were probably too busy thinking about men forcibly jacking off other men

---

Sad but true.
He's probably a little jealous it wasn't him.

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

mazag08 said:

---

gigem1223 said:

---

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

---

So the Rangers got worse and luck came crashing back to reality?

---

Who knows? We're not even 1/4 of the way through season. The Rangers have struggled with consistency through out the line up and the bullpen has struggled as well. They look like they've turned things around a bit and will be getting Beltre back soon. Being only 2 back of the wild card after a horrific start, I like their chances to get back to the postseason.

gigem1223 said:

---

mazag08 said:

---

gigem1223 said:

---

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

---

So the Rangers got worse and luck came crashing back to reality?

---

Who knows? We're not even 1/4 of the way through season. The Rangers have struggled with consistency through out the line up and the bullpen has struggled as well. They look like they've turned things around a bit and will be getting Beltre back soon. Being only 2 back of the wild card after a horrific start, I like their chances to get back to the postseason.

---

You don't actually believe that, do you?

Tell me about 2015 popcorn boy.

gigem1223 said:

---

mazag08 said:

---

gigem1223 said:

---

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

---

So the Rangers got worse and luck came crashing back to reality?

---

Who knows? We're not even 1/4 of the way through season. The Rangers have struggled with consistency through out the line up and the bullpen has struggled as well. They look like they've turned things around a bit and will be getting Beltre back soon. Being only 2 back of the wild card after a horrific start, I like their chances to get back to the postseason.

---

The rangers have had a very nice run of late but they haven't played a decent team in some time and have the third easiest strength of schedule so far this year.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi/_/sort/sos

gigem1223 said:

---

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

---

No Diekman who was a big part of the bullpen last year. Hamels is injured. Multiple players playing way below their track record.

The players missing from last year's team are definitely hurting. The Rangers compounded those issues by having the whole lineup in an extended slump to start the season.

Guys are pulling out of the slump now and the Rangers are on a nice win streak. We'll see if it will continue once they start playing better competition.

TV Casualty said:

---

gigem1223 said:

---

CorpsAg11 said:

---

AllThings12thMan said:

---

Quote:

---

***Breaking*** FIP, xFIP, and SIERA are not "real."

Next up, WAR, what is it good for?

---

Kinda like how Astros fans didn't think W-L was "real" until this year.

---

Actually all we did was bring up run differential as an indicator of future success. And wouldn't ya know, your team is below .500 this yr w/ basically the same roster. Luck ran out! Kudos to us astros fans for always being right!!!

---

Except it's not that the same roster...

No Beltre, Moreland or Desmond.... 3 of their most productive players last season.

---

No Diekman who was a big part of the bullpen last year. Hamels is injured. Multiple players playing way below their track record.

The players missing from last year's team are definitely hurting. The Rangers compounded those issues by having the whole lineup in an extended slump to start the season.

Guys are pulling out of the slump now and the Rangers are on a nice win streak. We'll see if it will continue once they start playing better competition.

---

It's interesting you say that. Looks like Arlington has played the 3rd easiest schedule in baseball so far.

It's interesting you say that like you didn't just read it from the post a couple up from yours.