***********2024-2025 San Antonio Spurs Thread********************

282,283 Views | 4057 Replies | Last: 57 min ago by West Texan
Guitarsoup
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jteagle said:

Ag Natural said:

Guitarsoup said:

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

If I was Sochan I would probably turn that down and take my chances in RFA, but I would take anything less than 20 AAV as an acceptable deal for us. I could see something like the Patrick Williams 5/90. If he is in the neighborhood of the guys you are describing that would be really good value and I would be ecstatic, I think once he gets a full season in a more defined role we will see him grow quite a bit. To your point on corner 3s, he did shoot almost 39% from there this year albeit on only like 28 attempts. He is still only 21 so I haven't given up on him at least becoming proficient from the corner a la Bowen, even if he never develops a shot from anywhere else.
39% of his attempts were corner threes, he shot .314 from there, according to BBRef.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sochaje01.html


This is showing Jeremy 6/14 from the left corner and 5/24 from the right corner. That would be about 29%.

https://3stepsbasket.com/player/jeremy-sochan/shooting

I think he can improve, but this wasn't a great year for him on that aspect. Felt like he back tracked a bit. Hopefully he improves a lot this summer.


I dont see Jeremy ever becoming a good 3pt shooter by percentage. However hes hit some timely shots a few times in his career so far. And I think he's so special defensively that you live with it. I'd happily give him the terms mentioned.


I think you keep Jeremy even if he comes off the bench. Defense is so valuable in the playoffs. Denver locked down SGA last night and won the game despite Jokic having an off night.
Having an elite defender late in the game pays huge dividends. I don't think you give that up just to get a better shooter.
Not just having a second POA defender, but a guy that brings the nasty and frustrates people. If someone cheap shots Wemby, he's the guy you know is going to make sure they don't do it again. Gotta have an intimidator on your squad. Elie, Kersey, Horry, Bowen, etc.
flashplayer
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Ummm, Kevin Willis - the guy who puts his elbow pads on even in garbage time.
flashplayer
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I'll spare everyone an uncle sighting and instead present to you another number 2 who has just as many championships in silver and black. Fun fact - he decimated the Lakers that year during the sweep going for more than 20 in games 3-4.

LawHall88
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Guitarsoup
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The only Hall of Famer to wear #2 for the Silver and Black.



I was there when he hit the final shot of his HOF career. A 3/4 court heave against the Hornets right after Christmas

Obi Wan Ginobili
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The Coyote is the goat #2

Also, **** Kawhi. Bitter till the end.
Guitarsoup
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https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/carter-bryant-is-a-winning-player

Outside the top 4 and Kon, Carter Bryant is probably my #6 choice for the Spurs.


Quote:

When Bryant was on the floor for Arizona, they had an offensive rating of 128.4 (5th) and a defensive rating of 94.1 (15th). Without Bryant on the floor, those ratings were 122.1 (18th) and 97.3 (35th) respectively.

Quote:

Bryant is an incredibly unselfish defender as he constantly has his head on a swivel; he is a highly effective weak-side rim protector, and he doesn't hesitate to scramble on defense. Bryant's reliability and consistency as a help defender are extremely rare for his age and a driving reason behind why he posted a block rate of 6.0 and a steal rate of 2.7.

Quote:

From a fundamental standpoint, Bryant is about as polished as you could expect a freshman to be. He moves his feet incredibly well, sits down in a stance, and can defend nearly any position on the court. He'll occasionally get a little too handsy or beat by the extremely quick guards, but he is almost never out of the play. By constantly sliding his feet and staying on balance, Bryant is a nightmare to try and beat to the rim. He rarely allows ball handlers to turn the corner because of his footwork, and his strength allows him to wall up drives and switch on bigger opponents. Additionally, his balance, footwork, and explosiveness make him elite at contesting jumpers. Bryant is disciplined with his block attempts, is quick off the ground, and has great instincts.



Quote:

There are a lot of players who are either elite on-ball or as team defenders. The really special ones are those who consistently combine both facets from possession to possession. That's the group that Bryant falls into.

When we look at the elite wing defenders in this class, there is a pretty steep drop-off and not a ton of names up there after Flagg, Edgecombe, Nique Clifford, and Bryant.


OFFENSE:


Quote:

Per Synergy, the three most common play types for Bryant are spot up at 36.1%, transition at 17%, and cuts at 14.9%. That's 68% of his possessions as being just a play finisher while only 9.8% consist of him operating the pick-and-roll along with zero isolation possessions. This usage distribution is only an issue if you're trying to find a wing creator.


Quote:

Bryant's most common play type is spotting up, where he scored 1.043 points per possession (PPP) (71st percentile). Additionally, 82.2% of his shots came shooting off the catch. In these situations, Bryant scored 1.09 PPP (66th percentile). What's more encouraging is that Bryant didn't exclusively rely on wide-open looks. In fact, 75.7% of his shots off the catch came when guarded (97th percentile), and he ranked in the 61st percentile in PPP. When unguarded, Bryant ranked in the 77th percentile in shooting off the catch. What that tells us is that Bryant is confident shooting off the catch, isn't deterred by a defender's presence, and was thrown a lot of last-second grenades. All of these factors suggest positive growth for him as a shooter going forward.


Quote:

As a scorer, though, Bryant isn't exclusively limited to being a standstill shooter. We saw him knock down plenty of relocation threes, but he's also a very good mover without the ball. His timely cuts, activity, and athleticism make him a great outlet for ball handlers. It also allows him to get easy hoops at the rim on cuts and offensive rebounds. This season, Bryant ranked in the 97th percentile in at-rim scoring and shot 78.9% at the rim in the halfcourt. The volume wasn't astronomical, given his role, but his size, strength, and explosiveness make him a big-time threat.

Bottom line:

Quote:

All he's done throughout the season is play winning basketball. On offense, he's a highly efficient play-finisher with tantalizing passing upside. On defense, he does just about everything at a high level. Bryant may not have the upside that guys in the Top 5 have, but that's why he doesn't get mentioned in that range. What he does have, though, is an incredible baseline as a 3-and-D wing who looks like he could play a decade-plus in the league.


My thought is that he could be our Trey Murphy, but the flip side. Trey is more offense (especially creation), less defense but still good at both. I think that Carter can be a better defender, probably not as good offensively but still a great finisher, which is what we need. He seems strong where Sochan is not and would be a better forward fit next to Castle.
flashplayer
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Tomorrow at 6pm. Get your candles going.

AggieEP
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Guitar has me convinced on Carter Bryant.

Unless we move into the top 2, I don't see us getting a super star in this draft, so let's get the shut down wing we need that can also shoot.

Of course best case scenario has the Hawks pick moving up to 1 (I can dream) so we can take Flagg and Bryant (with our own pick) adding the length we need.

Fox
Castle
Flagg
Bryant
Wemby

YES PLEASE

SPEAK IT INTO EXISTENCE!

Of course, I'm still in on Derik Queen as a playmaking fit as well. No reason he can't learn to get more active defensively... hell Buddy Hield has become a menace on defense suddenly this playoff run. It's all about effort and buy in. If you trust your system and culture, you can get guys to play defense and work with a high motor.
Guitarsoup
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AggieEP said:

Guitar has me convinced on Carter Bryant.

Unless we move into the top 2, I don't see us getting a super star in this draft, so let's get the shut down wing we need that can also shoot.

Of course best case scenario has the Hawks pick moving up to 1 (I can dream) so we can take Flagg and Bryant (with our own pick) adding the length we need.

Fox
Castle
Flagg
Bryant
Wemby

YES PLEASE

SPEAK IT INTO EXISTENCE!

Of course, I'm still in on Derik Queen as a playmaking fit as well. No reason he can't learn to get more active defensively... hell Buddy Hield has become a menace on defense suddenly this playoff run. It's all about effort and buy in. If you trust your system and culture, you can get guys to play defense and work with a high motor.
I'm still out on Queen. He doesn't have the athleticism in quickness or verticality that makes me think that he will ever be as good as even Mamu is on defense.


BTW: The guy that wrote all that on Bryant also wrote the article about why Steph Castle would be the best player in the 2024 draft: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/king-of-the-castle-why-stephon-castle

If Kon goes before our #8 pick, I think I take Bryant there.

I like Fleming's size more, but I think Bryant projects better and is probably the better defender.
TyHolden
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Spurs going to trade picks for someone?
Guitarsoup
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TyHolden said:

Spurs going to trade picks for someone?
I think they will take advantage of a deal if they get good value, but I do not expect a major trade.

A lot will depend on the balls dropping tomorrow as to the path the Spurs take.
Earth Rider
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Guitarsoup said:


Outside the top 4 and Kon, Carter Bryant is probably my #6 choice for the Spurs.


Is Edgecomb or Johnson in your top 4?

When Arizona played Duke in the sweet 16, Carter Bryant only had 8 points. I read an article where it was mentioned he had a rough game. Kon scored 20, but played 9 more minutes.

Carter Bryant only averaged 6.5 points a game, and played less minutes than 6 other Arizona players for the season. His highlights look solid but he is a projection based on his stats.

Kon proved a lot more than Carter Bryant as freshman.

Caleb Lewis (Arizona) scored 35 in that game and kind of kept it close. Flagg had a good game.

AggieEP
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It's not all about stats in college. Caleb Love was 23 years old and the number one option. So it's not apples to apples to look at college production there.

With Bryant what you are buying is length and potential at the NBA level. It's easy to imagine him being a wing stopper who can also give you 13-15 points a game.

The fear with Kon is that he's so bad defensively that his offensive game doesn't matter because he won't be able to stay on the floor. He's going to have to guard NBA wings and I have my doubts he can do that for 35 minutes a game. To me he's likely to be a bench guy.

Now in all honesty, the "projection" method can be unreliable because you are betting on a guy to develop and sometimes that doesn't happen.
Guitarsoup
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Earth Rider said:

Guitarsoup said:


Outside the top 4 and Kon, Carter Bryant is probably my #6 choice for the Spurs.


Is Edgecomb or Johnson in your top 4?

When Arizona played Duke in the sweet 16, Carter Bryant only had 8 points. I read an article where it was mentioned he had a rough game. Kon scored 20, but played 9 more minutes.

Carter Bryant only averaged 6.5 points a game, and played less minutes than 6 other Arizona players for the season. His highlights look solid but he is a projection based on his stats.

Kon proved a lot more than Carter Bryant as freshman.

Caleb Lewis (Arizona) scored 35 in that game and kind of kept it close. Flagg had a good game.




Spurs specific board only, I think I'm at:

1. Coop
2. Harper
3. Ace
4. Edgecombe
5. Kon
6. Bryant

Tre Johnson looks like a scorer and shooter, but I think he's a low IQ guy with no instincts on defense. He's probably 7, but I could be convinced to take Fears over him, because I think he's going to be elite at rim pressure and he could be Fox's replacement in 4 years so you could move off Fox while he still has value. And I think it takes 3-4 years for most PGs to really come into their own so his timeline as a 6th man transitioning to replace Fox would be great.
Earth Rider
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AggieEP said:

It's not all about stats in college. Caleb Love was 23 years old and the number one option. So it's not apples to apples to look at college production there.

With Bryant what you are buying is length and potential at the NBA level. It's easy to imagine him being a wing stopper who can also give you 13-15 points a game.

The fear with Kon is that he's so bad defensively that his offensive game doesn't matter because he won't be able to stay on the floor. He's going to have to guard NBA wings and I have my doubts he can do that for 35 minutes a game. To me he's likely to be a bench guy.

Now in all honesty, the "projection" method can be unreliable because you are betting on a guy to develop and sometimes that doesn't happen.
That all makes sense. I can see Bryant's potential on highlights but it may take him a few years to hit the 13-15 points a game mark IF he does get there. That would be fantastic, plus shoot above 37 percent or so from three. Maybe by the time he hits 23 he can get there, he is still a kid right now at 19.

I have thought the same about Kon. I wondered about his defense, he looks like a flat tire on defense in some games. But the Spurs need a shooter, and we have some great defenders in Wemby, Sochan, and Castle. He is more than just a shooter though on offense. I could see some Wings going off against Kon, and we woul bring in Sochan probably. I wish we could get more out of Vassel. He got paid and got comfortable. 135 million guaranteed.



AggieEP
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Unfortunately the going rate for a rookie extension right now is ridiculous. Guys that should be 10-15 million a year guys are getting 25 on their rookie scale extensions. Part of the issue here is that when you are negotiating the extension, you don't really know the market value because you have the exclusive right to negotiate. Sometimes it's better to go to full UFA with a guy if you want to play hardball on the numbers.
Guitarsoup
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Hard disagree with your take on Vassell. Last two years are 13% of the cap and he's likely a 4th or 5th option on this team. That's a fine cap number. I don't think he got comfortable, but he has the ankle problems, missed the off season then showed up to a new role and new coach and then Fox then no Fox.

Next year should give us a lot more continuity and hopefully we have a full off season of practice
AggieEP
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The issue is that long term, we've now decided that both Keldon and Vassell are bench options. And you can't pay your bench options what these guys are making. So at some point there will have to be a decision made on at least one of them IMO so that we can extend Fox, Wemby and Castle (eventually) and still put together a bench around those guys.
Guitarsoup
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AggieEP said:

The issue is that long term, we've now decided that both Keldon and Vassell are bench options. And you can't pay your bench options what these guys are making. So at some point there will have to be a decision made on at least one of them IMO so that we can extend Fox, Wemby and Castle (eventually) and still put together a bench around those guys.
Keldon is a sunk cost right now. He's overpaid, but is one of the best locker room guys. But he has next year and the year after. So this time next year, he is an expiring contract. It sucks, but it is what it is. We were able to dump off Collins' contract and he has fewer redeemable qualities.

Keldon's contract is useful if we decide to make another big trade. Not saying we would do this, but Harrison Barnes+Keldon's contracts = Zion's. If you want to step it up to the supermax players, Vassell+Keldon salary matches to get Giannis.

Keldon is WAY overpaid for what he is, which is about a 10th man on a good team.

Devin is probably about right because of the way we structured it. It will be about 13% the last two years. Next year, Devin will be about the 90th highest paid player in the league.


Wemby's max extension kicks in for the 28 season. Keldon's contract is over then. Devin will be 13% of the cap. Castle will be <7% of the cap.

Neither contract hurts us at all because of their structure.

I think Devin can be a 16/4/4 guy on a good team and I don't know if I relegate him to only 2nd team. For now, I think we need his shooting unless we do draft Kon and Kon shows he can take over for Devin without being too much of a liability. I do still think I start Wemby, Barnes, Sochan, Devin, Fox so we have two shooters and have Castle control a lot of the offense on the 2nd team unless Paul comes back.
Earth Rider
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Guitarsoup said:



Spurs specific board only, I think I'm at:

1. Coop
2. Harper
3. Ace
4. Edgecombe
5. Kon
6. Bryant

Tre Johnson looks like a scorer and shooter, but I think he's a low IQ guy with no instincts on defense. He's probably 7, but I could be convinced to take Fears over him, because I think he's going to be elite at rim pressureand he could be Fox's replacement in 4 years so you could move off Fox while he still has value. And I think it takes 3-4 years for most PGs to really come into their own so his timeline as a 6th man transitioning to replace Fox would be great.
That would be great if Fears could replace Fox in 4 or 5 years. I like Fox but I wonder how long he can keep his quickness. But why not castle to take over pg. Or do you see him mostly as a shooting guard. I could see a more natural sg at the 2 spot that can hit the 3 at a higher percentage and keep castle on the floor with his speed and defense.

Coop is the only 4 in your ranking, wish we could draft more size but this draft is deep at 6'5 and under.

Interesting on Edgecombe, I haven't studied him as much as I thought he was too similar to castle. High ceiling and he could be great and I understand why he is at 4.

I am with you on Johnson, but I've seen him in mock drafts go 3rd. Personally I'd put Fleming, Newell or Essengue above him.

we will know more about our options by this time tomorrow.
Guitarsoup
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Earth Rider said:

Guitarsoup said:



Spurs specific board only, I think I'm at:

1. Coop
2. Harper
3. Ace
4. Edgecombe
5. Kon
6. Bryant

Tre Johnson looks like a scorer and shooter, but I think he's a low IQ guy with no instincts on defense. He's probably 7, but I could be convinced to take Fears over him, because I think he's going to be elite at rim pressureand he could be Fox's replacement in 4 years so you could move off Fox while he still has value. And I think it takes 3-4 years for most PGs to really come into their own so his timeline as a 6th man transitioning to replace Fox would be great.
That would be great if Fears could replace Fox in 4 or 5 years. I like Fox but I wonder how long he can keep his quickness.
Just going off of Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook, they both seemed to hit a wall around age 31-32. Fox turns 28 at Christmas. So about 4 years of prime Fox for us. He has his middie, and last year he was 37% from three, so ideally we can get him back around there and he can be effective even after his quickness fades. He already doesn't hit the rim as much as he did a few years ago.



Quote:

But why not castle to take over pg. Or do you see him mostly as a shooting guard. I could see a more natural sg at the 2 spot that can hit the 3 at a higher percentage and keep castle on the floor with his speed and defense.

I think he is going to be more of a Jimmy Butler player on offense. He creates rim pressure, he draws fouls at a high level. He just needs a mid range and some threat from three. Jimmy creates well for others, but he isn't really a PG. But Jimmy gets around 5apg. I think that is what Castle will be. He can run the offense, he can be the offense, but he isn't really a PG.

Quote:


Coop is the only 4 in your ranking, wish we could draft more size but this draft is deep at 6'5 and under.
I think Ace Bailey is a 4. I think Ace is going to be a lot like Michael Porter. Good shooter, decent rebounder, passable defender, ball stopper. But I think MPJ has more creation and a higher IQ.

I would have Fleming and Noa Essengue in the mix for the 14th pick, but probably not the 8th. I do like Collin Murray Boyles, but not if we keep Sochan.


Quote:

Interesting on Edgecombe, I haven't studied him as much as I thought he was too similar to castle. High ceiling and he could be great and I understand why he is at 4.

I think Edgecombe and Castle would be an amazing back court. Hyper athletic, both can be shut down defenders. I think Edgecombe will be a good shooter off ball. I am really close to putting him above Ace Bailey, because I question Ace's BBIQ.



Quote:

I am with you on Johnson, but I've seen him in mock drafts go 3rd. Personally I'd put Fleming, Newell or Essengue above him.

we will know more about our options by this time tomorrow.

I think Tre could be an elite "off the bench score 20 in 25 minutes" guy, but he might give up 30. It's tough because we do need that type of scoring and shooting, but I think he is going to be a 6'5 Rob Dillingham defensively. I have Carter over him for us, but if Kon and Carter are gone, I think you probably pick Tre there over Fleming or those other projects.

I don't like Newell at all. I don't think he is good at anything. He has nothing that screams to me "Oh he is going to feast on this in the NBA." He is just one of those guys that has the right body type, is kind of ok at lots of things, but isn't good at anything. That's a long term bench forward. I would rather have a guy like Kyle Anderson that can at least defend and pass at a high rate, even if he sucks at shooting or scoring.
Guitarsoup
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West Texan
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Guitarsoup said:




I think if we jump into the top 4 tonight (but not #1) the rumors of Giannis to San Antonio will really start to heat up.
Guitarsoup
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West Texan said:

Guitarsoup said:




I think if we jump into the top 4 tonight (but not #1) the rumors of Giannis to San Antonio will really start to heat up.
Yeah, and I think we might consider it if we are at 2 or 3, but I dont really want to give up all our assets for a 31yo dude with 1000 NBA games that relies entirely on his athleticism.
Obi Wan Ginobili
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I don't even know that it solves all of our problems, but how wild is it that San Antonio is even part of this discussion?

The Wemby effect
flashplayer
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Johnny needs to bring us the magic this evening.

Guitarsoup
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BIG BODY!
Earth Rider
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Edgecombe from what I read is not at his 6'5 height. Read he is 6-foot-3 barefoot with a 6-foot-6 wingspan and that is undersized for a guard wing. Carter Bryant is 6'8 with a 7' wingspan.

I like Edgecomb but wish he had more height and length. And Castle is also a little undersized with a 6'8 wingspan. We played a lot of small ball last year as it is. I'd rather have Bailey but he will be gone at 3.

I can see why you say that with Newell but he has good form on his shot, and has length and is a good rim protector. I think its possible he could develop a shot from deep. He wasn't asked to take a lot of jump shots at GA. He would also curb those offensive rebounds we allowed and stop the layups when Wemby is out.

I'm not saying I would take Newell over Fleming or Essengue. More of a tossup for me, and Essengue to me has the highest ceiling, and Fleming maybe the highest floor.

Coop, Bailey, Fleming, Essengue, Newell. I know there are a lot of talented PG's and SG's that are better picks but hoping we draft a big personally. I would even be happy with Maluach even though he is a bench center. We wouldn't see nearly as big of a dropoff on defense when Wemby isn't on the floor and wouldn't give up all of the offensive rebounds and layups we gave up last year. It was sickening to watch at times last year when Wemby was out
Guitarsoup
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Ace being 6'7 instead of 6'10 is massive difference







Guitarsoup
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Inch taller than Steph with a little more wingspan and weight
Guitarsoup
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Oof. He was listed at 6'3 185.
Guitarsoup
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This is my guy if we want a backup center at 14






Meh.


Guitarsoup
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My man

The 7'6 wingspan was real
Guitarsoup
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Wemby 's BFF. Maybe 2nd rounder
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