2019 NBA offseason

101,129 Views | 920 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Enzo The Baker
Pumpkinhead
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This Forbes article says that because of all the U.S. state & federal tax laws, plus Canada tax laws, that Kawhi would make about $11.5 million more living & working in Los Angeles over the next 4 years because of how taxes work, versus working in Canada while maintaining a home in Southern California.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/seanpackard/2019/07/02/11-4-million-reasons-kawhi-leonard-will-not-sign-with-toronto/#1486174d1d8d


Quote:

If he signs with the Lakers, Leonard will only pay US and California taxes, along with jock taxes for which he will receive credits on his California return. On an average annual salary of $35,152,500, he will pay the US and California roughly $17,681,000, netting $17,471,500 after taxes. He would net $69,886,000 over the four years.

During the first four years after signing his max contract, Leonard will pocket an extra $11,414,000 by signing with the Lakers than he would signing with the Raptors.
If Kawhi has always wanted to live in Los Angeles/Southern California (where he was born, grew up, and played college ball) AND the overall tax situation means he'd keep more of his money simply both working and living in L.A.....then IMO end of story. The most logical smart thing to do is go to Lakers barring some incredible level of disfunction/chaos from an organizational/ownership standpoint. Makes total sense.

That is the pro-team located in his hometown, its a big market/major brand team, he'll make more money, and it is a team with both LeBron James and (even more importantly) Anthony Davis on it - who is he roughly the same age as and whom he can continue pair with to share the superstar load for several years down the road even has LeBron ages out. The Clippers? Sure, they are in Los Angeles too...but they don't have anybody close to a LeBron and Anthony Davis on their rosters.

And all the above reasons are presumably part of why more and more the signs are Kawhi is going to the Lakers. I know the fanbases for all the other teams not named Los Angeles Lakers are going to complain about yet another 'super team' immediately popping up carrying on the tradition of the LeBron-Wade-Bosh Heat and the Warriors.

But if you look at this from Kawhi's perspective, the Lakers just makes too much damn sense. And after winning NBA titles for both the Spurs and then Raptors being a 'Super Team Destroyer', he really has nothing to prove. He's shown now twice he can be the Finals MVP beating super teams in an NBA Finals. Now looks like he may very well cross the aisle and play on a super-team himself.
Guitarsoup
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Something to prove:

Despite being the Finals MVP in 14, he was on the Big 3's team.
When he joined the Raptors, they had won 59 games the year before and a separate player won Most Improved this year, then Golden State lost two of their three best players to major injuries.

Does Kawhi need to prove that he can be the man that a team is built around to win a title? He wasn't that in either other team. Both times he won a championship he was an added piece to an already elite team.
BlackLab
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If he joins the Lakers, he can compete for championships without being the man. Meaning he can manage his time and limit wear and tear. I think that puts the lakers over the top.
Guitarsoup
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BlackLab said:

If he joins the Lakers, he can compete for championships without being the man. Meaning he can manage his time and limit wear and tear. I think that puts the lakers over the top.
Can he? Because they have no bench. Sure they have Bron and Davis, but they have no one at all on the bench, no draft picks, and will have to rely on old vets that want to chase a ring.

He's gonna have a heavier load, because outside Kuz, Davis, and LeBron, they don't have a single other player on the roster.

Maybe they get Iggy for free and that will help tremendously, but Memphis can also say no, we wanted you to play for us, so wait a year.

2011 Miami had Chalmers, Haslem, and a couple other players on the roster, but their big three still had to play 36-39mpg in the regular season and 39-42mpg in the playoffs.
Pumpkinhead
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Guitarsoup said:

Something to prove:

Despite being the Finals MVP in 14, he was on the Big 3's team.
When he joined the Raptors, they had won 59 games the year before and a separate player won Most Improved this year, then Golden State lost two of their three best players to major injuries.

Does Kawhi need to prove that he can be the man that a team is built around to win a title? He wasn't that in either other team. Both times he won a championship he was an added piece to an already elite team.
Well yeah...that was Toronto this season. They added some pieces and built their system around Kawhi this year.

And sure, Golden State was hobbled, but Kawhi still had to get Toronto through two REALLY good teams in the East in the Sixers and the Milwaukee Bucks (the latter of whom was the #1 team in the regular season and whose main player Giannis won league MVP).

It is pretty hard to come up with a more impressive overall 23-game playoff run than Kawhi just had this season. Statistically it was one of the best post-seasons ever for any player.
Pumpkinhead
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BlackLab said:

If he joins the Lakers, he can compete for championships without being the man. Meaning he can manage his time and limit wear and tear. I think that puts the lakers over the top.
That plus he was born and raised in Los Angeles...it is where he wants to live apparently. And compared to Toronto specifically, he apparently is going to make more $$$ not dealing with Canada tax stuff. So...yeah....he wants to go home...and there are two teams to consider...Lakers vs. Clippers...and look at those rosters and tell me which one has another couple of Top-7-ish players in the NBA on it. Including a guy who is close to his own age and who would complement his skill set great (Anthony Davis).
Pumpkinhead
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Guitarsoup said:

BlackLab said:

If he joins the Lakers, he can compete for championships without being the man. Meaning he can manage his time and limit wear and tear. I think that puts the lakers over the top.
Can he? Because they have no bench. Sure they have Bron and Davis, but they have no one at all on the bench, no draft picks, and will have to rely on old vets that want to chase a ring.

He's gonna have a heavier load, because outside Kuz, Davis, and LeBron, they don't have a single other player on the roster.

Maybe they get Iggy for free and that will help tremendously, but Memphis can also say no, we wanted you to play for us, so wait a year.

2011 Miami had Chalmers, Haslem, and a couple other players on the roster, but their big three still had to play 36-39mpg in the regular season and 39-42mpg in the playoffs.
If Kawhi goes to the Lakers, it will be fascinating to see how they try to fill out the rest of that roster, and also how they will handle the regular season.

My dream scenario is Alex Caruso is starting PG for them, ha ha. Love me some Caruso, one of my favorite A&M players, though of course I don't think that has much of a chance. Got hopes for him being an actual major part of the guard rotation for them though.
Guitarsoup
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Pumpkinhead said:

Guitarsoup said:

Something to prove:

Despite being the Finals MVP in 14, he was on the Big 3's team.
When he joined the Raptors, they had won 59 games the year before and a separate player won Most Improved this year, then Golden State lost two of their three best players to major injuries.

Does Kawhi need to prove that he can be the man that a team is built around to win a title? He wasn't that in either other team. Both times he won a championship he was an added piece to an already elite team.
Well yeah...that was Toronto this season. They added some pieces and built their system around Kawhi this year.
Kawhi was just an upgrade for a team that was already built. That team wasn't built around him. They won 59 games and went to the Conference Finals before Kawhi joined them.

I'm not saying Kawhi didn't play great, because he obviously did. But he also joined a team that was pretty great already and replaced a player that was significantly worse than him in just about every facet of the game.

I don't think he is like Jimmy Butler, though. Jimmy Butler took less money to be on a ****tier team so he could be the man on that team. That is what Kawhi could do if he joined the Clippers. But if Kawhi wants rings, the smarter move is the Lakers.
Pumpkinhead
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Guitarsoup said:

Pumpkinhead said:

Guitarsoup said:

Something to prove:

Despite being the Finals MVP in 14, he was on the Big 3's team.
When he joined the Raptors, they had won 59 games the year before and a separate player won Most Improved this year, then Golden State lost two of their three best players to major injuries.

Does Kawhi need to prove that he can be the man that a team is built around to win a title? He wasn't that in either other team. Both times he won a championship he was an added piece to an already elite team.
Well yeah...that was Toronto this season. They added some pieces and built their system around Kawhi this year.
Kawhi was just an upgrade for a team that was already built. That team wasn't built around him. They won 59 games and went to the Conference Finals before Kawhi joined them.

I'm not saying Kawhi didn't play great, because he obviously did. But he also joined a team that was pretty great already and replaced a player that was significantly worse than him in just about every facet of the game.

I don't think he is like Jimmy Butler, though. Jimmy Butler took less money to be on a ****tier team so he could be the man on that team. That is what Kawhi could do if he joined the Clippers. But if Kawhi wants rings, the smarter move is the Lakers.
The Toronto team that won the NBA finals had 3 starters (Kawhi & Green who were on the Spurs and Gasol who was on Memphis) whom were not wearing Raptor uniforms the previous year. It wasn't just the Kawhi trade, the Gasol trade was also huge. Toronto also fired the head coach of that 59 win team and hired a new guy to steer the ship. The Raptors rotation and coaching staff in 2018-2019 was A LOT different than in 2017-2018.

Toronto deliberately blew up that previous team - feeling like it had peaked - and rebuilt it on the fly with multiple trades and head coach change going all-in on trying to win an NBA title around Kawhi Leonard in what was likely a one shot season - and it worked as good of course as it ever could have worked out.
Farmer1906
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This seems like a reach. Leonard has nothing to prove. He took a Raptors team that no one thought would contend regardless of how many wins they had and upset the Bucks & Warriors without a true Robin to his Batman.
Obi Wan Ginobili
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Just wanted to chime in and say **** Kawhi.

Carry on, ladies.
Guitarsoup
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Farmer1906 said:

This seems like a reach. Leonard has nothing to prove. He took a Raptors team that no one thought would contend regardless of how many wins they had and upset the Bucks & Warriors without a true Robin to his Batman.
Kyle Lowry was an all-star THIS YEAR and each of the past 5 years. Siakam put up 19/game in the playoffs and VanVleet got a vote for Finals MVP.

The raptors had SIX players averaging double figures in scoring for the Finals. Last year's Warriors vs Cavs had 5 players averaging double figures scoring - from both teams combined.

Acting like Kawhi dragged a bunch of nobodies to the title is ridiculous. The Raptors were very well balanced and talented.
Farmer1906
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Guitarsoup said:

Farmer1906 said:

This seems like a reach. Leonard has nothing to prove. He took a Raptors team that no one thought would contend regardless of how many wins they had and upset the Bucks & Warriors without a true Robin to his Batman.
Kyle Lowry was an all-star THIS YEAR and each of the past 5 years. Siakam put up 19/game in the playoffs and VanVleet got a vote for Finals MVP.

The raptors had SIX players averaging double figures in scoring for the Finals. Last year's Warriors vs Cavs had 5 players averaging double figures scoring - from both teams combined.

Acting like Kawhi dragged a bunch of nobodies to the title is ridiculous. The Raptors were very well balanced and talented.
We're supposed to act like Lowry and his 14 ppg are considered a true superstar. He's not a top 25 player in this league.

I am not saying the Raps were bad. Obviously, they were not, but Leonard was their best player by a very very significant margin.
Olsen
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Olsen
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Guitarsoup
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Farmer1906 said:

Guitarsoup said:

Farmer1906 said:

This seems like a reach. Leonard has nothing to prove. He took a Raptors team that no one thought would contend regardless of how many wins they had and upset the Bucks & Warriors without a true Robin to his Batman.
Kyle Lowry was an all-star THIS YEAR and each of the past 5 years. Siakam put up 19/game in the playoffs and VanVleet got a vote for Finals MVP.

The raptors had SIX players averaging double figures in scoring for the Finals. Last year's Warriors vs Cavs had 5 players averaging double figures scoring - from both teams combined.

Acting like Kawhi dragged a bunch of nobodies to the title is ridiculous. The Raptors were very well balanced and talented.
We're supposed to act like Lowry and his 14 ppg are considered a two superstar. He's not a top 25 player in this league.

I am not saying the Raps were bad. Obviously, they were not, but Leonard was their best player by a very very significant margin.
No one is saying Kawhi was bad. He had a great season and a great playoff run.

I am saying:

1. That team was not built around Kawhi. It was built around DeRozan and Lowry, and Kawhi was a huge upgrade over DeRozan in just about every aspect of the game (shooting, defense, shot selection, experience, etc).
2. Kawhi had a great team around him. We are talking a 5-time all-star in Lowry who was 2nd in the NBA in Assists Per Game behind Westbrook. You had Ibaka who played a lot less minutes than he used to, but is still extremely effective. Per-36, he put up 20/11/2. Having six guys in double figures shows how much talent he had around him. That isn't normal for a championship team. Most have just a couple. No, he didn't have an AllNBA guy like the SuperTeams are built, but the 14 Spurs and the 11 Mavs were like that as well. With a deep and balanced team, you don't need multiple superstars like the Warriors/Cavs/Heat had.


If he has the chip on his shoulder like Jimmy Butler where he wants to be the undisputed man and have the team built around him, then he can do that on the Clippers, but not LA as AD and Bron are both there. I don't think that is what Kawhi would want, but who knows. Maybe he wants to prove he belongs in the LeBron/Jordan talks, and I don't think he gets in that conversation by joining LeBron and Davis for the Lakers.
Olsen
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Pumpkinhead
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As stated, your viewpoint that the Raptors simply traded out DeRozan for Kawhi on a 59-win team and then 'Presto!' won an NBA title is not an accurate take.

A LOT more changes happened than just plugging in Kawhi for DeRozan. As I said, They also added Green as a starter and made a very important trade for Marc Gasol, plus fired the head coach of that 59-win team and hired Nick Nurse and retooled their coaching staff.

There are plenty of articles out there of course on 'How Toronto Built An NBA Title Team' that talk about the timeline and what changes occurred.

And obviously there were some other good NBA players on the Toronto roster besides Kawhi, but nobody that you'd ever put into a say 'Top-20 in NBA' conversation...and if the 'Prove Something' bar is you have to win the NBA title without a single other good player on the roster...well then probably no NBA champion in history has ever proved anything.



Olsen
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Olsen
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L7 WEENIE
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Olsen said:


Utah is going to be good
Olsen
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Olsen
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Ags #1
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Lol
Olsen
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Enzo The Baker
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Wow. If the Lakers don't get Kawhi I might have the Jazz as my west favorite. They have really filled out a ball team.
Guitarsoup
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That's a distortion of my viewpoint, but whatever.

Fact is that Kawhi was added to a very good team. Nurse was in place before the trade that brought over Kawhi and Green. The only subsequent move they made was the Gasol move, which they were able to do because they were so deep and VanVleet and Siakam were progressing so much. Kawhi was a huge upgrade over their best player in all facets of the game.

And that is my point. Kawhi upgraded an already very good team. I don't know how anyone can argue against that.

Top 20 players? Sure, only Kawhi. But as previously pointed out, they are the third team of the decade that won without multiple top-20 players, so it isn't like that is a pre-requisite to win a title. Siakam was the most improved player in the league. Lowry was 2nd in the NBA in assists per game. Gasol is an elite post defender. Ibaka is a great post defender and rebounder. VanVleet is a great 6th man.

Some players like Jimmy Butler most noticeably/recently want to be the man on a team built around them. Kawhi and go do that with the Clippers but not the Lakers. And those are really his only two options left. I think he will join Bron&Friends to chase titles, but if he joined the Clippers and turned them into winners, he has a bigger opportunity to write his own legacy.
L7 WEENIE
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I agree with everything you said about Toronto, but he has already written his own legacy with his two chips and two finals MVPs. Anything now is icing on the cake. He will go down as one of the greats!

Him going to the Lakers (if he does) is different than LeBron and KD chasing their first chip.
QBCade
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Damn, wish my GSW would've been able to grab Mudiay or Green.
Olsen
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Olsen
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Olsen
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Iowaggie
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West Texan
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Iowaggie said:


Olsen
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