It's the championship and the Cavs are down 3-0.....

In every sport besides baseball, being down 3-0 is a death sentence.

This series is already over.

I don't know how some of you guys can say this is good for the league.

We better hope for an interesting offseason with lots of movement, crazy trades.

General managers of the other teams need to get desperate and try somethings, otherwise this league is going to be hard to watch for the next 3-4 years.

More specifically, I think we need to see the clippers blow it up. Seeing griffin and Paul go to stronger teams could make things interesting. If they stay together, they will continue to lose in the second or first round every year. They should rebuild.

Iowaggie said:

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Ozzy Osbourne said:

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Ganondorf said:

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So Silver says that everyone else in the league is supposed to magically get better in the off-season to contest the warriors?

Had 18 turnovers, no problem.

Shot 50% overall, 50% from 3. Until the tax catches the warriors the finals will always be warriors.

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Silver's job is to promote the league. Of course he'll say that the league is perfect and competitive.

But behind closed doors he knows that this is really screwed up and imbalanced. The problem is getting the players union to agree to tighter cap rules which would cost them money. The players run the league.

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Silver should have made a better case for implementing the new salary cap instead just mega Capspace for all.

ABC/ESPN can't be too excited about the current state and future of this tv deal.

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The Player's Union voted for the Mega cap all at once. The NBA brass actually was against increasing the cap space so much and wanted to increase the cap in phases over a period of a few years, but the players wanted as much money as they could grab as soon possible.

I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to ratings however isn't "best they've ever been" just a sign of the times? Anyone anywhere can now watch the games from their phones or iPads. Whereas 10 years ago, it was only on tv.

I hope you're right, but I'd say it's 50/ 50.

Paul would be leaving a lot of money on the table, but I think he's a smart guy and even he knows that he's not going to win a championship in LA.

Kawhi + 33 year old Paul + Aldridge + gutted roster to make space for Paul seems like would have less chance to beat Warriors than this Cavs team did.

And my understanding is Paul has to walk away from 201 million guaranteed dollars with Clippers to take a deal substantially less.

Was listening to latest Bill Simmons podcast (who is a Clippers season ticket holder) and he seems to think no way Paul leaves. Thinks any smoke about Paul to Spurs is mostly just a negotiating tactic to get Clippers attention, possibly trying to squeeze a no-trade clause out of them in addition to the 201 million.

Iowaggie said:

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I understand the appeal if these types of playoffs to the casual fan and the bandwagon types

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It's actually the opposite from my point of view. I understand how someone who doesn't really care about basketball but likes a team to rep their city or fit in or something being frustrated that the only team they care about doesn't stand a chance.

But how can you be a true nba fan and not want to watch every warriors game? This is the best basketball I've ever seen played. They put 5 guys on the floor who hustle on d, move without the ball, make the unselfish pass and shoot lights out. It's incredible to watch.

CactusThomas said:

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Iowaggie said:

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I understand the appeal if these types of playoffs to the casual fan and the bandwagon types

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But how can you be a true nba fan and not want to watch every warriors game?

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Because they beat their chest after every play and act like every shot is a game winning shot.

That's certainly an interesting perspective.

GiGeMaGs11 said:

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Lebron fan and Warriors hater here. But I genuinely think the Warriors sweep. They'll win the first 2 at home by 15+. Hard fought 3rd game in Cleveland but Warriors pull it out. Warriors win game 4 by 20.

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If only I'd put some money on this, the Cavs might have had a chance...

Enzo The Baker said:

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CactusThomas said:

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Iowaggie said:

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I understand the appeal if these types of playoffs to the casual fan and the bandwagon types

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But how can you be a true nba fan and not want to watch every warriors game?

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Because they beat their chest after every play and act like every shot is a game winning shot.

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The funny thing about this post is that this is why I cannot stand Lebron. His drama faces and fake looks for the camera make me want to scream.

LeBron now falls to 3-5 in 8 finals appearances.

He is an all-time great player, and 7 straight finals and counting is darn impressive.....but the talk of catching Jordan should be officially over.

Do y'all think he wins another title in his career? He is getting older and the warriors don't appear to be going anywhere.

If he loses to the warriors a couple more years he could easily finish with a 3-7 or 3-8 finals record which has to be one of the worst all time finals records amongst the greats.

I think the Celtics win the East next year after Gordon Hayward joins the team.

Interesting from last night:

Lebron - 39 points on 15/27 shooting, +7
Irving - 38 points on 16/29 shooting, -8

When it's 1s vs 1s early in the game, the Cavs are pretty clearly able to hang with GS. But when you factor in the couple minutes Lebron has to sit (Cavs were -12 in the TWO MINUTES Lebron sat), plus the fact that he's a little more tired down the stretch from playing excess minutes, plus the fact that KD/Curry get their normal rest because the Warriors are rotating four all stars plus guys like Iggy and Livingston, it's just not a fair fight with <2 minutes to go.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19575552/golden-state-warriors-coach-steve-kerr-says-cleveland-cavaliers-fatigue-played-part-game-3

Quote:

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CLEVELAND -- As LeBron James and Kyrie Irving poured in shot after shot Wednesday night in Game 3 of the NBA Finals, Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr said he kept repeating the same message to his players.

"They're going to get tired," Kerr recalled saying, speaking of James and Irving. "Stay in front of them. Force them into outside shots, if you can. Fatigue will play a role."

Ultimately, Kerr believes fatigue did play a part in his team closing the game on an 11-0 run en route to a 118-113 win that gave the Warriors a 3-0 lead in the best-of-seven series.

"We just felt like the way they play, Kyrie and LeBron had it going the whole game, but that's pretty taxing to go one-on-one the whole game," Kerr said. "Both those guys were amazing, 38 and 39. But that takes a lot out of you.

"And I think when you get guys playing 45, 44 minutes, basically attacking one-on-one the whole game, it's -- you hope eventually it's going to take its toll," Kerr added. "I wasn't sure after a while; they just were going nuts. But I think that we just stayed with it, and our defense finally kicked in."

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And the flip side of that is Durant was fresh to go iso down the stretch for two critical baskets. He made his LeBron missed his.....ballgame.

Fresh legs certainly help, as does a 7fter with infinite range.

GatorAg03 said:

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And the flip side of that is Durant was fresh to go iso down the stretch for two critical baskets. He made his LeBron missed his.....ballgame.

Fresh legs certainly help, as does a 7fter with infinite range.

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Yep, exactly. KD gets his normal rest. Lebron has to play 46 minutes. In a game where margins are small, logging five less minutes is a meaningful advantage, especially in the closing minutes.

GatorAg03 said:

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LeBron now falls to 3-5 in 8 finals appearances.

He is an all-time great player, and 7 straight finals and counting is darn impressive.....but the talk of catching Jordan should be officially over.

Do y'all think he wins another title in his career? He is getting older and the warriors don't appear to be going anywhere.

If he loses to the warriors a couple more years he could easily finish with a 3-7 or 3-8 finals record which has to be one of the worst all time finals records amongst the greats.

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Let's say he goes to golden state and Durant is in his spot in Cleveland. Golden state sweeps too.

They are a super team, jordan wouldn't have had a chance either.

Can Lebron take a veterans minimum to sign with Golden State next year?

That very well may be, but Jordan's legacy is built upon him being so elite and the ultimate competitor where he could just will his team to victory. A big part of that is his 6-0 finals record. There is a reason he is always ranked #1 almost without consideration.

Losing in the NBA finals 5-7 times is not great for an all-time great legacy. Is it better to be 4-0 in the finals or 3-5? My guess is 4-0 would have been better for LeBron's legacy.

I agree. Sometimes life just isn't fair. Just ask Barkeley, Ewing, Reggie Miller and Rik smits.

Lebron will be one of the all time greats, but will be known for a lack of killer instinct, ESPECIALLY when you see how he shrunk against Dallas and Boston (delonte-gate).

I hate to drag politics into this, but it can't be completely avoided where money's concerned.

-Right now, California's top bracket for their state income tax is a staggering 13.3%.
-They're seriously considering a state health insurance program that will create a half a trillion dollars of new liabilities.
-It's basically an indisputable fact that the high speed rail that they're continuing to push forward is going to end up massively over budget (like tens of billions and maybe even a hundred billion over budget).

I promise you that Joe Six Pack won't be picking up the tab for these thing. They're either going to fleece the richest residents or underfund the projects, or, most likely, a combination of both. Oh, and all these costs are on top of the 35% federal income tax. Now if Paul has a halfway decent accountant, he's reducing his taxes somewhat, but you get the idea.

When you consider all of these factors, the $50 million gap between the offers turns out to be much narrower. Not sure if San Antonio should do it, but the "OMG he'll get $50 million more with LA" analysis is flat out wrong.

There is no way that discussion should be over any time before LeBron retires. He likely will end up appearing in more Finals than any player ever and should Golden State's roster shake up at all before LeBron retires, he will win a few more.

LeBron is going to pass MJ in every single statistical category before he retires and is a more efficient player. If he can win another two or three titles, he surpasses Jordan without a doubt. Even if he doesn't, it is up for debate and LeBron has an extremely compelling case.

grapespda2525 said:

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Told you guys

Crappy / boring series.

Durant broke the NBA.

Sips are good at ruining things like conferences and leagues.

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OMG, we get it, just stop. The Spurs are done, so just come back next season. That game was amazing.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I hate to drag politics into this, but it can't be completely avoided where money's concerned.

-Right now, California's top bracket for their state income tax is a staggering 13.3%.
-They're seriously considering a state health insurance program that will create a half a trillion dollars of new liabilities.
-It's basically an indisputable fact that the high speed rail that they're continuing to push forward is going to end up massively over budget (like tens of billions and maybe even a hundred billion over budget).

I promise you that Joe Six Pack won't be picking up the tab for these thing. They're either going to fleece the richest residents or underfund the projects, or, most likely, a combination of both. Oh, and all these costs are on top of the 35% federal income tax. Now if Paul has a halfway decent accountant, he's reducing his taxes somewhat, but you get the idea.

When you consider all of these factors, the $50 million gap between the offers turns out to be much narrower. Not sure if San Antonio should do it, but the "OMG he'll get $50 million more with LA" analysis is flat out wrong.

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The 50mm gap isn't really 50mm, considering it counts a 5th year that SA can't offer. He can get insurance for that year if he can't get an extension. But he could also do what Durant did and sign a 2y with a 1y out clause and then sign a 4y contract. It would essentially give him the same, but without the taxes.

That said, on a single year, the tax difference is about $2mm off 30mm, give or take.

BallerStaf2003 said:

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Wow. I don't think I've ever heard of a +- like this. Astonishing.

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Check Russ' +/- from the Houston series. It was way more lopsided.

QBCade said:

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BallerStaf2003 said:

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Wow. I don't think I've ever heard of a +- like this. Astonishing.

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Check Russ' +/- from the Houston series. It was way more lopsided.

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When Russ was on the floor, Thunder outscored Rockets by 5 points per 100 possessions.
When Russ was off the floor, Rockets outscored Thunder by 51 points per 100 possessions.


What it really shows is the second biggest trade Presti screwed up.

Traded Reggie Jackson, DJ Augustin and a 1st for Enes Kanter. Then they couldn't even play Kanter in the playoffs because he was so terrible on defense.

They really needed Reggie Jackson to run the show while Russ rested. In Detroit, Jackson is averaging 20/7 per 36.

a 32-yearDeputy Travis Junior said:

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I hate to drag politics into this, but it can't be completely avoided where money's concerned.

-Right now, California's top bracket for their state income tax is a staggering 13.3%.
-They're seriously considering a state health insurance program that will create a half a trillion dollars of new liabilities.
-It's basically an indisputable fact that the high speed rail that they're continuing to push forward is going to end up massively over budget (like tens of billions and maybe even a hundred billion over budget).

I promise you that Joe Six Pack won't be picking up the tab for these thing. They're either going to fleece the richest residents or underfund the projects, or, most likely, a combination of both. Oh, and all these costs are on top of the 35% federal income tax. Now if Paul has a halfway decent accountant, he's reducing his taxes somewhat, but you get the idea.

When you consider all of these factors, the $50 million gap between the offers turns out to be much narrower. Not sure if San Antonio should do it, but the "OMG he'll get $50 million more with LA" analysis is flat out wrong.

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Per my understanding of what is being discussed and written, Chris Paul will be eligible for a 5-year 200 million dollar extension from the Clippers. There is also at least one agent who has told insiders the opinion that Paul is potentially angling for a no-trade clause from the Clippers on top of the extension.

As another just tidbit of note, there is a lot of smoke that Jerry West will be leaving the Warriors after the Finals to join the Clippers in a similar role.

There are also a lot of questions about how much the Spurs would be willing to go or could go for a 32-year old Paul given their limited cap flexibility.

And then you have to ask whether a Kawhi, Paul, Aldridge nucleus would be serious threat to the Warriors anyways. Particularly if the Spurs had to make some hard cuts in the rest of the roster to make room for Paul. The Warriors are currently getting the broom out for a LeBron-Irving-Love nucleus Cavs team which you can easily argue is as good or better than a Kawhi-Paul-Aldridge bunch would be. So whether at the end of the day, Paul actually thinks the Warriors are beatable if he goes to the Spurs (and thus the move is really worth giving up L.A. and tens of millions of guaranteed money) is another question mark.

I agree Jackson would have been a better piece for the 2016-17 Thunder against the Rockets. I disagree with the rest of that premise.

Deluxe said:

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I agree Jackson would have been a better piece for the 2016-17 Thunder against the Rockets. I disagree with the rest of that premise.

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Today's NBA needs playmakers. Kanter is not one. Jackson is. Kanter is getting 18mm/year to sit on the bench when it matters because his game is so bad. That was a bad trade.

Pumpkinhead said:

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a 32-yearDeputy Travis Junior said:

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I hate to drag politics into this, but it can't be completely avoided where money's concerned.

-Right now, California's top bracket for their state income tax is a staggering 13.3%.
-They're seriously considering a state health insurance program that will create a half a trillion dollars of new liabilities.
-It's basically an indisputable fact that the high speed rail that they're continuing to push forward is going to end up massively over budget (like tens of billions and maybe even a hundred billion over budget).

I promise you that Joe Six Pack won't be picking up the tab for these thing. They're either going to fleece the richest residents or underfund the projects, or, most likely, a combination of both. Oh, and all these costs are on top of the 35% federal income tax. Now if Paul has a halfway decent accountant, he's reducing his taxes somewhat, but you get the idea.

When you consider all of these factors, the $50 million gap between the offers turns out to be much narrower. Not sure if San Antonio should do it, but the "OMG he'll get $50 million more with LA" analysis is flat out wrong.

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Per my understanding of what is being discussed and written, Chris Paul will be eligible for a 5-year 200 million dollar extension from the Clippers. There is also at least one agent who has told insiders the opinion that Paul is potentially angling for a no-trade clause on top of the extension.

As another just tidbit of note, there is a lot of smoke that Jerry West will be leaving the Warriors after the Finals to join the Clippers in a similar role.

There are also a lot of questions about how much the Spurs would be willing to go or could go for a 32-year old Paul given their limited cap flexibility.

And then you have to ask whether a Kawhi, Paul, Aldridge nucleus would be serious threat to the Warriors anyways. Particularly if the Spurs had to make some hard cuts in the rest of the roster to make room for Paul. The Warriors are currently getting the broom out for a LeBron-Irving-Love nucleus Cavs team which you can easily argue is as good or better than a Kawhi-Paul-Aldridge bunch would be. So whether at the end of the day, Paul actually thinks the Warriors are beatable if he goes to the Spurs (and thus the move is really worth giving up L.A. and a bigger contract) is another question mark.

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JMO, I think a healthy Spurs team would beat Cleveland in a 7 game series, but it would be close and competitive, and both teams have a way to go to close the gap on the Warriors.

The only way to catch them is with the building of another super team, and I don't see that happening. I'm inclined to agree that adding Paul to the Spurs probably won't be enough to argue the Spurs are "as good" as the Warriors, but will it get them close enough that, over a 7 game series, they can be competitive and pull off an upset if they play great and the Warriors have a couple off nights? Maybe, and I think that is the mindset you need.

The gutting of the Spurs to get Paul is the most ridiculous counterpoint out there against the signing.

Who exactly would the Spurs be losing that is so valuable? I'm not saying Paul will sign or that it's smart to sign him to a long term deal at his age or even that the Spurs would have enough firepower with Paul to beat the warriors, but let's not fall into the media talking points that the Spurs would need to be gutted and lose so much to get him.

Injured and old Parker -not a big loss
Old Gasol - not a big loss
Trading Danny Green - moderate loss
Not signing Mills - not a big loss
Not signing Simmons - moderate loss
Not signing Dedmon - not a big loss


It really was Kawhi and a bunch of system players this year. You should give up any and all on that list without hesitation if you can land Chris Paul.

Disagree

GatorAg03 said:

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The gutting of the Spurs to get Paul is the most ridiculous counterpoint out there against the signing.

Who exactly would the Spurs be losing that is so valuable? I'm not saying Paul will sign or that it's smart to sign him to a long term deal at his age or even that the Spurs would have enough firepower with Paul to beat the warriors, but let's not fall into the media talking points that the Spurs would need to be gutted and lose so much to get him.

Injured and old Parker -not a big loss
Old Gasol - not a big loss
Trading Danny Green - moderate loss
Not signing Mills - not a big loss
Not signing Simmons - moderate loss
Not signing Dedmon - not a big loss


It really was Kawhi and a bunch of system players this year. You should give up any and all on that list without hesitation if you can land Chris Paul.

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Spot on. I would hate losing Danny Green because I think he is the right guy to match up against Klay or Curry.

If you could dump Gasol and convince TP to retire, then let Dedmon/Lee/Mills walk, you have enough to get Paul and keep Simmons. That is the best case scenario. Simmons' cap hold is only 1.6 and he is restricted.

LMA
Kawhi
Simmons
Green
Paul

That is as good of a defensive lineup as any team could have against the Warriors.

Then your bench is:

PF: Bertrans
SF: Kyle Anderson
SG: Hanga (Euro Defensive POY)
PG: Murray

Pick up some people we have never heard of to fill in the three extra spots and we are done.