Golden State in 5.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/05/28/nba-finals-lebron-james-history-cavaliers-warriors

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All of which brings LeBron to the cold reality of 2017: The Warriors he is preparing to face are the best team he has ever played against. Their profile lines up as the best the league has ever seen. A champion became a historic juggernaut and added the second-best player in the league. If the gluttonous addition of talent weren't enough, the particular kind of player Golden State added comes as a direct address to its unraveling in last year's Finals. When all else fails, Kerr can default into setting up a dynamic seven-footer to shoot over the top of whatever defender Cleveland can put in front of him. That it's likely to be James either tips the balance of the Cavs' defensive philosophy from last season (which relied on James as either a free-roaming safety or a matchup for Draymond Green) or renders it entirely obsolete.

These Warriors are effectively the sum of everything LeBron has faced previously in the Finals: the literal intersection of Durant and Curry; the switch-savvy defense that sullied his first year with the Heat; the same sort of demanding offensive motion that ended his run in Miami; and a three-point revolution (a through line of the past seven years) brought full bore. LeBron is basketball's ultimate trump card. In the coming weeks, however, he'll be asked to not only trump one of the greatest teams of all time, but the complete lineage of every team that has challenged him on the biggest stage in the sport.

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jock itch said:

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For those hating on Durant's choice, considering we know GS had an offer on the table, you are honestly saying he should have intentionally picked a ****tier team just to make it harder on himself?

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Yes. Everyone knows that life is all about making things as hard as possible for yourself. The harder the better. Nothing gets more respect from others than failing over and over and over again, but stubbornly sticking with the same plan to prove that you are not a quitter. People who deliberately make calculated choices that make it easier for them to find success are in actuality losers.

Pumpkinhead said:

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jock itch said:

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For those hating on Durant's choice, considering we know GS had an offer on the table, you are honestly saying he should have intentionally picked a ****tier team just to make it harder on himself?

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Yes. Everyone knows that life is all about making things as hard as possible for yourself. The harder the better. Nothing gets more respect from others than failing over and over and over again, but stubbornly sticking with the same plan to prove that you are not a quitter. People who deliberately make calculated choices that make it easier for them to find success are in actuality losers.

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You know that's not what I'm saying at all. The point is that he had one of the best teams in history on the ropes, choked 3 games in a row to give away the series, and then rather than trying again he flipped and went to a team that truly didn't need him to win a title (they would have been huge favorites even without Durant). They won 73 freaking games without him. The Warriors aren't his team; he's just another guy there.

If you don't think that tarnishes his legacy as a competitor, you're not being honest.

I know you've enjoyed following the Warriors for a couple of years and I agree that they're fun to watch, but Durant totally beeched out. He got his ass beat and then instead of trying again, he decided to ride the Warriors' coattails to a title.

Updated first post and added TexAgs average user prediction.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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jock itch said:

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For those hating on Durant's choice, considering we know GS had an offer on the table, you are honestly saying he should have intentionally picked a ****tier team just to make it harder on himself?

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Yes. Everyone knows that life is all about making things as hard as possible for yourself. The harder the better. Nothing gets more respect from others than failing over and over and over again, but stubbornly sticking with the same plan to prove that you are not a quitter. People who deliberately make calculated choices that make it easier for them to find success are in actuality losers.

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You know that's not what I'm saying at all. The point is that he had one of the best teams in history on the ropes, choked 3 games in a row to give away the series, and then rather than trying again he flipped and went to a team that truly didn't need him to win a title (they would have been huge favorites even without Durant). They won 73 freaking games without him. The Warriors aren't his team; he's just another guy there.

If you don't think that tarnishes his legacy as a competitor, you're not being honest.

I know you've enjoyed following the Warriors for a couple of years and I agree that they're fun to watch, but Durant totally beeched out. He got his ass beat and then instead of trying again, he decided to ride the Warriors' coattails to a title.

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So what was he supposed to do with his career and personal life to 'impress' social media? Stay in Stillwater and play with Westbrook even though there were indications that he had tired of that situation after 8-9 years of 'been there, done that'?

Deliberately go to a WORSE team than Golden State even though from his statements he clearly really liked the other Warrior players and Kerr and their free flowing/motion offense? Even though GSW could pay him a max contract and offered the best chance for him to get a ring? I personally think he would have been kind of dumb to go anywhere else but the Warriors given all the factors.

And I bet almost every poster opining how Durant 'beeched out' would have made the same dang decision Durant did had they been in his shoes.

Shaq left Orlando to go to the Lakers in 1996 and won 3 titles with Kobe. LeBron left Cleveland (his own hometown no less) to go to Miami and form a 'superteam' and win some NBA titles. Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Pierce got together in Boston to form a 'superteam' and win an NBA title. Kevin Love went to Cleveland to join LeBron and complete the building of a 'superteam' there to win an NBA title. I don't think there is much new to see here in terms of star players moving around to win NBA titles.

It is the NBA's job if they want to discourage 'superteams' from forming to make it so superstar players have to leave A LOT of money on the table if they want to move around.

Cavs in 6

Damn... pumpkin head with the rare 8 edit post.

All seriousness, Durant 16 is really so much like Lebron 2010. Narrative then (don't believe me just look at this board in 2010-2011) was Lebron was scared, he's not a competitor, he's a *****, not a leader, D-Wades teams, proves he's just another good player, etc etc. Then what happens? He wins a couple in Miami and another in Cleveland and nobody remembers that and he's widely consider the second best player ever with years left on his career and all the naysayers either have conveniently forgot about their criticisms or just disappeared.

The point is winning cures all and makes everyone forgetful. If Durant wins a few, nobody is going to care about how he went to a great team to improve his situation. He will just be remembered as the one of the greatest ever and that's that.

ATM9000 said:

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Damn... pumpkin head with the rare 8 edit post.

All seriousness, Durant 16 is really so much like Lebron 2010. Narrative then (don't believe me just look at this board in 2010-2011) was Lebron was scared, he's not a competitor, he's a *****, not a leader, D-Wades teams, proves he's just another good player, etc etc. Then what happens? He wins a couple in Miami and another in Cleveland and nobody remembers that and he's widely consider the second best player ever with years left on his career and all the naysayers either have conveniently forgot about their criticisms or just disappeared.

The point is winning cures all and makes everyone forgetful. If Durant wins a few, nobody is going to care about how he went to a great team to improve his situation. He will just be remembered as the one of the greatest ever and that's that.

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That Miami Heat team is not a legit title contender without Lebron.

Golden State could have very well won the title, and would have been likely favorites, without Durant.

Not even close to the same thing.

Not saying Durant didn't make a logical decision, but in context it was a weak move (like Stephen A said) by a superstar.

Also, I feel that Lebron has redeemed himself somewhat by coming back to Cleveland and getting it done in epic fashion against one of the greatest teams in history.

Let's not forget that Durant himself has even implied that had they beat the Warriors last year, he might have never left OKC. So I don't necessarily buy the whole Westbrook was ****ty teammate angle.

I think you could argue that the players forced trades in many of those cases. Still the Durant situation is much different.

The lakers lost in the first round in 1995 to the rockets. Shaq's second best player was Eddie Jones in his first year with them. Kobe was a high school rookie averaging 7 points per game.

Lebron's best championship BY FAR was the one he won in Cleveland. It was widely seen as a weak move to Miami.

Ray Allen, KG, and Pierce were aging stars who shirked individual credit for a last ditch attempt at a title because they were old.

Kevin Love realized he wasn't a top 10 player in the league and decided to be 3rd player on a title winning team again letting go of individual for a title.

Durant should get the same credit for this title that Love gets. Congratulations to him for being the 4th best player on a title winning team. Whoop dee doo! Enjoy the company with Rick Fox, Caron Butler, and Marco Bellineli.

Probably won't happen, but I hope the Cavs destroy the Warriors. Besides Steve Kerr, I can't stand anyone on that team.

PascalsWager said:

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I think you could argue that the players forced trades in many of those cases. Still the Durant situation is much different.

The lakers lost in the first round in 1995 to the rockets. Shaq's second best player was Eddie Jones in his first year with them. Kobe was a high school rookie averaging 7 points per game.

Lebron's best championship BY FAR was the one he won in Cleveland. It was widely seen as a weak move to Miami.

Ray Allen, KG, and Pierce were aging stars who shirked individual credit for a last ditch attempt at a title because they were old.

Kevin Love realized he wasn't a top 10 player in the league and decided to be 3rd player on a title winning team again letting go of individual for a title.

Durant should get the same credit for this title that Love gets. Congratulations to him for being the 4th best player on a title winning team. Whoop dee doo! Enjoy the company with Rick Fox, Caron Butler, and Marco Bellineli.

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Durant isn't the 4th best player on the Warriors. He is either the best player or the second best (after Curry).

And I think the odds makers right now have Kevin Durant with the highest odds to be Finals MVP.

yawny06 said:

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Let's not forget that Durant himself has even implied that had they beat the Warriors last year, he might have never left OKC. So I don't necessarily buy the whole Westbrook was ****ty teammate angle.

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There are plenty of articles out there like this one that indicate that after 8 years of playing with Westbrook, Durant was pretty ready for a change.

http://www.espn.com/blog/golden-state-warriors/post/_/id/3716/saturday-shows-why-kevin-durant-left-russell-westbrook

Sure, if they had actually won an NBA title, maybe he would have felt differently. But that isn't what happened. They never did win one. And it had been 8 years playing with Westbrook in Stillwater, Oklahoma. And there was Golden State in a much bigger market (San Francisco) with a great team who could offer him a max contract.

I still haven't seen a poster offer a good argument for what other decision Durant should have made as a logical, rational thinking human being, if he was tired of playing with Westbrook on the Thunder and Golden State was sitting there with open arms.

Pumpkinhead said:

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yawny06 said:

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Let's not forget that Durant himself has even implied that had they beat the Warriors last year, he might have never left OKC. So I don't necessarily buy the whole Westbrook was ****ty teammate angle.

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There are plenty of articles out there like this one that indicate that after 8 years of playing with Westbrook, Durant was pretty ready for a change.

http://www.espn.com/blog/golden-state-warriors/post/_/id/3716/saturday-shows-why-kevin-durant-left-russell-westbrook

Sure, if they had actually won an NBA title, maybe he would have felt differently. But that isn't what happened. They never did win one. And it had been 8 years playing with Westbrook in Stillwater, Oklahoma. And there was Golden State in a much bigger market (San Francisco) with a great team who could offer him a max contract.

I still haven't seen a poster offer a good argument for what other decision Durant should have made as a logical, rational thinking human being, if he was tired of playing with Westbrook on the Thunder and Golden State was sitting there with open arms.

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Assuming he doesn't care about his legacy and building/leading a championship team, I agree that Golden State was the obvious choice. I think he could have had a little bit more "best of both worlds" if he had signed with San Antonio.

Oh well. I'm a Thunder fan. IT'S NOT LIKE I'M STILL MAD ABOUT IT! SERIOUSLY, I'M NOT MAD! I KNOW YOU THINK I'M MAD BUT I'M NOT!!!!

(Warriors in 4 btw)

San Antonio has a one sip limit. Just ask RC Buford (A&M & Okie State.)

The only thing softer for Durant now would be if the Warriors have the Cavs down 3-1 again this year, but Cleveland comes back to win another championship, and then Durant opted out to be a free agent to sign with LeBron and the Cavs.

That would be a little worse, but not much.





And I'll stick to my original prediction from the NBA playoffs contest: Warriors in 5, but I don't really think most the games will be that close.

this has a chance to be closer than most are predicting. Yes the Warriors added Durant but Lebron is playing better this post season than last. 32.5/8/7 vs 26.5/9.5/7.5

Curious to how everyone would rank the 7 all stars between the 2 teams.

Lebron



KD
Steph

Klay
Kyrie

Green
Love

Looking at the role players/bench I would probably lean a little to the Cavs


EDIT:
Cavs in 7

Guitarsoup said:

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San Antonio has a one sip limit. Just ask RC Buford (A&M & Okie State.)

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No wonder the Spurs are the most successful NBA organization over the past 20 years

Deluxe said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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San Antonio has a one sip limit. Just ask RC Buford (A&M & Okie State.)

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No wonder the Spurs are the most successful NBA organization over the past 20 years

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It would have been nice to have Corey Joseph this postseason.

MGS said:

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Deluxe said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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San Antonio has a one sip limit. Just ask RC Buford (A&M & Okie State.)

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No wonder the Spurs are the most successful NBA organization over the past 20 years

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It would have been nice to have Corey Joseph this postseason.

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Would have been great. But wouldn't have gotten LMA and paid him his big contract (4y30mm)

GS in 5. The Cavs need to make a ton of threes to hang with GS and I don't think they will for more than one game.

One more day to go. This NBA Finals will have the most All-Stars playing in it (Seven players) since the Finals in 1983. And it is the first time in NBA history that 2 teams have met 3 consecutive years in the Finals.

Hope it lives up to the hype. If you want to start getting fired up, promos like below might help.

Cavs in 2

Lebron fan and Warriors hater here. But I genuinely think the Warriors sweep. They'll win the first 2 at home by 15+. Hard fought 3rd game in Cleveland but Warriors pull it out. Warriors win game 4 by 20.

CAVS IN SIX!!!

Spot on for Durant. Also worth mentioning that he joined the team that bounced his team out of the playoffs the year before with Westbrook. I really enjoyed a recent Paul Pierce interview where he likened the move to a kid being bullied joining forces with the bullies after getting his ass whooped.

Did not see the times posted so here is the schedule:

Game 1: June 1st @ GS - 8pm
Game 2: June 4th @ GS - 7pm
Game 3: June 7th @ CLE -8pm
Game 4: June 9th @ CLE - 8pm
Game 5: June 12th @ GS -8pm*
Game 6: June 15th @ CLE -8pm*
Game 7: June 18th @ GS -7pm*
(all times central - all games on ABC)

Few observations:
-Why not put the two Sunday games in the afternoon?
-Two days in between every game except for 3 and 4? That normal? I understand the extra day for travel but not when staying in the same location.

zk said:

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Spot on for Durant. Also worth mentioning that he joined the team that bounced his team out of the playoffs the year before with Westbrook. I really enjoyed a recent Paul Pierce interview where he likened the move to a kid being bullied joining forces with the bullies after getting his ass whooped.

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Charles Barkley who initially poo pooed Durant's decision also later said "If I had known that my own career was primarily going to be judged by whether I won a championship or not, then I probably would also have gone and tried to join some other great players while in my prime'.

At the end of the day, we seem to mostly judge superstars by whether they win a titles (and how many they win). 30 years from now, if Durant won 2-3 NBA titles while at Golden State for example) his legacy will almost certainly be judged more favorably than if he had stayed at Oklahoma City his entire career and never won a thing.

And based on articles and info that has come out since his decision, he was almost definitely tiring of playing in OKC with Westbrook. Boston, Miami, and Washington were three teams who had been clearing cap space to grab him.

But by just a very weird special timing with both the cap spike and Curry being on an incredibly favorable contract for Golden State, Durant was able to go to the best team in the league. And it is pretty hard to fault him for going there. If you are going to make a move, then make a move to be on the team most like to win championships (and make tons of $$$ in endorsements and increase your brand and so forth for the next several years while you are dominating the NBA).

Very fair assessment. I think that the negative feelings towards him/his decision will be smoothed out by the time his legacy is cemented and that ultimately it was the right move for him.

Although I am not a fan of him or the move to GS, it definitely was the logical move and I probably would have done it myself if I were in his shoes. That being said, I am intrigued to see how long they stay together and what the future of the NBA is if they do...I think they will keep their core for the foreseeable future and be unrivaled in their dominance after Lebron is no longer in his prime.

Guitarsoup said:

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San Antonio has a one sip limit. Just ask RC Buford (A&M & Okie State.)

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Saw this and had to ask a question. I'm a huge Warriors fan and do root for KD. But, I would never buy his jersey, etc bc he's a sip. Curious if other folks are the same wrt supporting pro athletes on 'their' team that are sips?