**** 2017 NBA Finals Thread ****

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AggieSportsGuy
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7:32a, 5/26/17
AG
Cleveland Cavaliers (51-31) v Golden State Warriors (67-15)

Warriors win 4-1

Game 1: June 1st @ GS - CLE 91 - 113 GS
Game 2: June 4th @ GS - CLE 113 - 132 GS
Game 3: June 7th @ CLE - GS 118 - 113 CLE
Game 4: June 9th @ CLE - GS 116 - 137 CLE
Game 5: June 12th @ GS - CLE 120 - 129 GS

TexAgs Average User Prediction: Warriors in 5.95

Call your shot:
AggieSportsGuy - Cavs in 6
Pumpkinhead - Warriors in 6
Bayouaggie - Cavs in 7
Head Ninja in Charge - Warriors in 7
primomosquito - Warriors in 6
QBCade - Warriors in 6
CFTXAG10 - Cavs in 6
Good Aggie Hunting - Warriors in 6
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia - Warriors in 6
ATM9000 - Warriors in 4
Texas A&M - Cavs in 7
Deputy Travis Junior - Warriors in 5
herewegoagain - Warriors in 5
BirdhunterAg13 - Cavs in 6
Deluxe - Warriors in 4
IowaAggie - Warriors in 5
04.arch.ag - Cavs in 7
amercer - Warriors in 5
GiGeMaGs11 - Warriors in 4
zk - Cavs in 6
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Pumpkinhead
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7:52a, 5/26/17
AG
Warriors in 6. Watched many of the Cavs games and their defense still is suspect. Nobody they played in East is any where close to as good as GS. They will have to score IMO about 120 points each game to win. Which they are capable of but not 4 games because Warriors are also an elite defensive team.

The FiveThirtyEight site analytics are giving Warriors currently 93% chance of winning.
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bayouaggie
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8:02a, 5/26/17
AG
Talk about a tease....First three rounds of the playoffs were a complete bore, now we have to wait a week to start Round 3 of an epic Finals, which will be played roughly every three days.

Cavs in 7. Let's go LeBron.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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9:38a, 5/26/17
AG
Warriors in 7.
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SquirrellyDan
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9:43a, 5/26/17
AG
Warriors in 6
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QBCade
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9:55a, 5/26/17
AG
Warriors in 6
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CFTXAG10
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11:00a, 5/26/17
AG
Head says Warriors over Cavs in 6.
Heart says Cavs over Warriors in 6.

Prediction: Heart. Cavs in 6
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Olsen
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11:22a, 5/26/17
AG
I don't think the series will go to seven games. Warriors in 4/5/6. I have the Warriors in 6 on the bracketology contest.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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11:55a, 5/26/17
AG
Warriors in 6. Too much firepower. Klay Thompson hasnt shot for **** in these playoffs, and yet they have been rolling people. so if he can also get going, it might be over quicker.
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Iowaggie
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In reply to bayouaggie • 2:48p, 5/26/17
AG
bayouaggie said:
Talk about a tease....First three rounds of the playoffs were a complete bore, now we have to wait a week to start Round 3 of an epic Finals, which will be played roughly every three days.

Cavs in 7. Let's go LeBron.



While I do expect this series to have great ratings, especially if the Cavs can steal 1 of the first two games on the road, I do wonder if there are people who have checked out already from the playoffs and will watch less than normal.

There's been no suspense in the lead-up to the finals.
There have been such long breaks.

And, I wonder about the fact that the people who don't like LeBron, and possibly like the Warriors less.
To some, choosing who to cheer for is a repeat of the November elections.

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Pumpkinhead
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8:18p, 5/26/17
AG
Cavs VS Warriors will get a lot more hype and viewership than Boston vs Spurs would have.

The two best teams both loaded with All-Stars who also have a real rivalry and dislike/hate for each other after having already met twice the previous two Finals.

It is a ripe situation for some compelling sports drama. It is the matchup that many (including much of the media) seemed to want. Now finally we got through the formalities of the rest of the playoffs and the Cavs vs Warriors series is finally here.

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Pumpkinhead
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5:57a, 5/27/17
AG
This guy picks Warriors in 5.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alexkay/2017/05/25/2017-nba-finals-odds-and-winning-predictions-for-golden-state-warriors-vs-cleveland-cavaliers/amp/

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ATM9000
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6:58a, 5/27/17
AG
I'll go one further: Warriors sweep.
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Iowaggie
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8:31a, 5/27/17
AG
The last time the Warriors lost with Klay, Steph, KD, and Draymond playing full games together was February 4th.

I don't think this is going to be the great drama people think it is unless a key member of the Warriors gets hurt or nut kicks someone. Or Bennett Salvatore is called out of retirement.

And I don't really see how it will be much different next year unless one of the teams implode.
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Texas A&M
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8:58a, 5/27/17
Cavs in 7
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yawny06
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10:31a, 5/27/17
AG
Rooting for the Cavs.

I think Lebron dominates. Dude is on a mission. Hard to believe that he has been in every Finals since 2011.

It will be interesting to see what will happen if Mike Brown has to make adjustments. He has gotten very fortunate and not had to face any adversity in these playoffs.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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10:38a, 5/27/17
Warriors in 5 or 6. My only hope is that LeBron ruins Durant over the series. Dude's been a whiny beotch this year after an offseason that saw him execute an overt, pathetic ring-chasing move that's reserved for players over 35. You want people to see you as competitive and driven? Then don't leave your team to go join a 73 win team that eliminated you last year (after you choked away a 3-1 lead) and kept its entire core.

BTW, the comparison to LeBron and the Heat is a joke. The Heat went to the playoffs in 2 out of the 3 seasons before LeBron arrived and ducked out in the first round (and won <50 regular seasons games) both years. LeBron and Bosh joined a team that was somewhere between solid and good, but far from great. Durant joined a team that was already historically great. If they hadn't choked away that 3-1 lead, they'd be viewed as a top 3 team of all time. And Durant latched on to them like a sycophant cling-on trying to hang out with the popular jock in a teen movie.
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yawny06
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 11:44a, 5/27/17
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Warriors in 5 or 6. My only hope is that LeBron ruins Durant over the series. Dude's been a whiny beotch this year after an offseason that saw him execute an overt, pathetic ring-chasing move that's reserved for players over 35. You want people to see you as competitive and driven? Then don't leave your team to go join a 73 win team that eliminated you last year (after you choked away a 3-1 lead) and kept its entire core.

BTW, the comparison to LeBron and the Heat is a joke. The Heat went to the playoffs in 2 out of the 3 seasons before LeBron arrived and ducked out in the first round (and won <50 regular seasons games) both years. LeBron and Bosh joined a team that was somewhere between solid and good, but far from great. Durant joined a team that was already historically great. If they hadn't choked away that 3-1 lead, they'd be viewed as a top 3 team of all time. And Durant latched on to them like a sycophant cling-on trying to hang out with the popular jock in a teen movie.


That's pretty much spot on in regards to Durant.

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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to yawny06 • 11:52a, 5/27/17
AG
yawny06 said:
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Warriors in 5 or 6. My only hope is that LeBron ruins Durant over the series. Dude's been a whiny beotch this year after an offseason that saw him execute an overt, pathetic ring-chasing move that's reserved for players over 35. You want people to see you as competitive and driven? Then don't leave your team to go join a 73 win team that eliminated you last year (after you choked away a 3-1 lead) and kept its entire core.

BTW, the comparison to LeBron and the Heat is a joke. The Heat went to the playoffs in 2 out of the 3 seasons before LeBron arrived and ducked out in the first round (and won <50 regular seasons games) both years. LeBron and Bosh joined a team that was somewhere between solid and good, but far from great. Durant joined a team that was already historically great. If they hadn't choked away that 3-1 lead, they'd be viewed as a top 3 team of all time. And Durant latched on to them like a sycophant cling-on trying to hang out with the popular jock in a teen movie.


That's pretty much spot on in regards to Durant.

The only thing we probably don't have a good sense of as fans however, regarding Durant's decision, is how his personal relationship with Westbrook really was. Maybe he also was just really tired of playing with Westbrook.

Now granted, he could have gone to another team than GSW, like Boston for example. But it is easy to see why he was seduced by Golden State. They look like a hella of a fun team to play with.

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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 12:27p, 5/27/17
Quote:
But it is easy to see why he was seduced by Golden State. They look like a hella of a fun team to play with.
He went there to get a ring. I don't buy the "fun" argument.

I don't blame him for growing tired of Westbrook. He's a bigger ball hog than Kobe, which I thought was impossible. But going to a historically great team that had no need of him to win a title (really, they were a Curry injury and a dumb nut kick from routing Cleveland and winning back-to-backs) irrevocably damages his legacy as a hungry competitor, especially when you throw in the 3-1 choke job that Durant pulled when he was in OKC.

His move was an act of resignation. He didn't care how he got a ring, he just wanted one.
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ATM9000
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 2:11p, 5/27/17
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Quote:
But it is easy to see why he was seduced by Golden State. They look like a hella of a fun team to play with.
He went there to get a ring. I don't buy the "fun" argument.

I don't blame him for growing tired of Westbrook. He's a bigger ball hog than Kobe, which I thought was impossible. But going to a historically great team that had no need of him to win a title (really, they were a Curry injury and a dumb nut kick from routing Cleveland and winning back-to-backs) irrevocably damages his legacy as a hungry competitor, especially when you throw in the 3-1 choke job that Durant pulled when he was in OKC.

His move was an act of resignation. He didn't care how he got a ring, he just wanted one.


This is such a dumb argument.

Uhhh... Yeah. Newsflash: player wants to win because he can get paid to AND it is a funner way to go about life in professional sports.

... And? What's the problem with that? If you have a bunch of offers in the real world and pick a better company to work for vs a subpar one, is that an 'act of resignation' too? Give me a break.

Blame the league if you are unhappy with the competitive balance and their shortsightedness when it came to managing the cap, not the players in it.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to ATM9000 • 2:27p, 5/27/17
I don't "blame" him for doing it, but it's a move that belies the tough, ultra-competitive image he's been trying to build over the last few years. He went to a team that was one of the best in NBA history without him. That's not the move of a fiery competitor who wants to be seen as the best.
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ATM9000
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 2:30p, 5/27/17
AG
No... the move of a fiery competitor who wants to be seen as the best... is absolutely go and find the place that surrounds himself with the best team and best probability to win long term... both in real life and in sports.
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yawny06
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2:45p, 5/27/17
AG
Fierce competitors believe they are the best, period.

Durant joining the Warriors would have been like Lebron joining Kobe's Lakers. Or Duncan joining Shaq's Lakers. Or Dirk joining Duncan's Spurs.
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ATM9000
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In reply to yawny06 • 2:56p, 5/27/17
AG
yawny06 said:
Fierce competitors believe they are the best, period.

Durant joining the Warriors would have been like Lebron joining Kobe's Lakers. Or Duncan joining Shaq's Lakers. Or Dirk joining Duncan's Spurs.
Had the cap worked out when those guys played where that was possible, you'd have seen it more. But, rest assured, that DID happen amongst the same old fart talking heads who pretend the superteam is a new phenomenon. Think Payton and Malone on the Lakers or Barkley with the Rockets (total ring chases).

Egomaniacs think they are the best, period.

Fierce competitors do whatever it takes to win and win big... including going to the absolute best situation to win... that's what Durant did. He saw the writing on the wall: he was never going to win it all playing with Russ. So he went to the best place where he'd get paid AND probably win a lot. Doesn't make him less tough or softer... it just makes him a great basketball player who is also pretty logical and smart.
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yawny06
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3:25p, 5/27/17
AG
All those guys that chased rings were well past their prime playing years.

Not saying Durant isn't smart or logical. And he is an amazingly talented ball player.

Just saying it reduces his overall legacy in comparison to other superstars. In my opinion.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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3:44p, 5/27/17
Durant will be a champion, but he will never be the leader of a championship team the way Jordan led the Bulls or Duncan led the 99&03 spurs. Durant is just another guy there
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ATM9000
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 4:14p, 5/27/17
AG
If they run off 3 or 4, he will be remembered like any of the greats. The history books don't discount Johnson or Bird career because they had great teammates.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to ATM9000 • 5:48p, 5/27/17
I agree legacy is a fuzzy concept. 1 amazing player and 4 bums aren't winning anything; you need multiple great players to win a title.

But if you want to be remembered as an ultra-competitive, all-time great, you can't win zero rings for years, choke away a 3-1 lead in the conference finals, and then go to a 73 win team that truly doesn't need you because it was historically good before you arrived. That's what 35 year old ring-chasing vets do, not stars in their prime.

He's a clinger, not the team leader.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to yawny06 • 8:00p, 5/27/17
AG
yawny06 said:
Fierce competitors believe they are the best, period.

Durant joining the Warriors would have been like Lebron joining Kobe's Lakers. Or Duncan joining Shaq's Lakers. Or Dirk joining Duncan's Spurs.


What LeBron did instead is made sure he had a team loaded with All-Stars like Irving and Kevin Love.

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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 8:06p, 5/27/17
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
I agree legacy is a fuzzy concept. 1 amazing player and 4 bums aren't winning anything; you need multiple great players to win a title.

But if you want to be remembered as an ultra-competitive, all-time great, you can't win zero rings for years, choke away a 3-1 lead in the conference finals, and then go to a 73 win team that truly doesn't need you because it was historically good before you arrived. That's what 35 year old ring-chasing vets do, not stars in their prime.

He's a clinger, not the team leader.


Ray Allen, Garnett all 'clingers' too when they went to Boston?

maybe Durant really gets along good with Curry and friends. maybe he was tired of Westbrook. Maybe he loved GSW motion offense and unselfish passing and Steve Kerr. Maybe he wanted to live in San Francisco instead of Stillwater, Oklahoma. And yeah, he also probably wants a ring. And he going to get one (probably) and make a couple hundred million dollars playing basketball. Sounds like a great deal to me.

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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 9:03p, 5/27/17
Pumpkinhead said:
Deputy Travis Junior said:
I agree legacy is a fuzzy concept. 1 amazing player and 4 bums aren't winning anything; you need multiple great players to win a title.

But if you want to be remembered as an ultra-competitive, all-time great, you can't win zero rings for years, choke away a 3-1 lead in the conference finals, and then go to a 73 win team that truly doesn't need you because it was historically good before you arrived. That's what 35 year old ring-chasing vets do, not stars in their prime.

He's a clinger, not the team leader.


Ray Allen, Garnett all 'clingers' too when they went to Boston?

maybe Durant really gets along good with Curry and friends. maybe he was tired of Westbrook. Maybe he loved GSW motion offense and unselfish passing and Steve Kerr. Maybe he wanted to live in San Francisco instead of Stillwater, Oklahoma. And yeah, he also probably wants a ring. And he going to get one (probably) and make a couple hundred million dollars playing basketball. Sounds like a great deal to me.



The Celtics won 24 games the year before Garnett and Allen showed up. So no, they were not clingers jumping onto an established championship team.

Come on pumpkin, you research the hell out of everything. You're too good for this.
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Iowaggie
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In reply to ATM9000 • 9:57p, 5/27/17
AG
ATM9000 said:
yawny06 said:
Fierce competitors believe they are the best, period.

Durant joining the Warriors would have been like Lebron joining Kobe's Lakers. Or Duncan joining Shaq's Lakers. Or Dirk joining Duncan's Spurs.
Had the cap worked out when those guys played where that was possible, you'd have seen it more. But, rest assured, that DID happen amongst the same old fart talking heads who pretend the superteam is a new phenomenon. Think Payton and Malone on the Lakers or Barkley with the Rockets (total ring chases).

Egomaniacs think they are the best, period.

Fierce competitors do whatever it takes to win and win big... including going to the absolute best situation to win... that's what Durant did. He saw the writing on the wall: he was never going to win it all playing with Russ. So he went to the best place where he'd get paid AND probably win a lot. Doesn't make him less tough or softer... it just makes him a great basketball player who is also pretty logical and smart.

I disagree. I believe they could have won it.

IN 2015-16, they had a 73 win Warriors team down 3-1. Durant did not play great in games 5 or 6, so they lost.
The previous year they missed the playoffs (injuries)
IN 2013-14, they were eliminated (4-2) by eventual champs Spurs that were on a mission from God.
In 12-13, they were a 60 win #1 seed, eliminated by Grizzlies after Westbrook was injured by a Patrick Beverly cheap shot.
In 11-12, they lost in the NBA Finals to a great Heat team.


He had all the right in the world to make the choice he made.
And fans have all the right in the world to label him less tough and soft.
What kind of Superstar leaves a team and joins the team that beats them? Who does that?

To quote Stephen A., it was "the weakest move ever done by Superstar"


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Ulrich
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10:05p, 5/27/17
He had to know when he did it that a lot of fans would view it negatively. I'm not sure I buy that it says anything about his competitiveness, but I do think it means he doesn't care all that much whether fans think he's an "alpha".

It will stick with his "legacy" if the only title(s) he wins come after he jumped on a bandwagon. Now will it hurt more or less than trying to be the foundation of a program but never getting over the top? Hard to say, but it will definitely generate more discussion. Pretty unique situation for a top 3 scorer to join a team that was already way out in front of everyone else from a talent perspective.
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BBQ4Me
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7:14a, 5/28/17
AG
It sure would be nice to be able to watch a Finals game.

I hate how the NBA (or TV partners) schedule games. Having some playoff games start at 9:30 or 10:30 EST; fixed date for the start of th Finals; having 3 days between games; etc
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