**** Spurs offseason thread ****

150,805 Views | 1430 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Obi Wan Ginobili
Brian Earl Spilner
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Feels weird making this in May.

Gonna be really tough to see to see the Big 3 break up, if that's what ends up happening.

LA would be a huge get, but I'm not holding my breath. One bright side is if Timmy does decide to come back, I think we'll see a determined Timmy just like we did in 2014. The man is a machine and still has another championship run in him.

GSG.
saltydog13
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No offense to Parker, but he's a liability now like Manu. Playing ball year round just kills his legs come playoff time, so I wouldn't mind seeing a Patty/CoJo duo at point. They both hustle their asses off.
Oh and Go Spurs Go
Knife_Party
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Agreed about Tim. Manu probably needs to retire. Hate to say that but he's lost about two steps over the last couple year. Because they are getting off early I wouldn't be surprised to see guys come back and be in better health after 2 straight finals runs. I'd be down for an every other year run like in '03, '05, and '07. The injuries we had throughout the season and in these playoffs really killed us.
Chipotlemonger
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At a loss for words right now. Lots of thoughts going on just can't get them all out.

GSG.
BigBrother
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Win or lose, I absolutely love following the Spurs. They can be frustrating, but that's because I hold them to such a high standard and they almost always deliver. There is only one question that truly matters this offseason. Tim, or no Tim? He is my favorite sports athlete of all-time and I just can't imagine enjoying the Spurs as much without him.
tremble
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As a Rockets fan I just don't see how Tim is "too old" to play. The dude's game is so based on his intelligence and muscle memory that I still see him playing at the same level NEXT year.

He really is the basketball terminator/White Walker/whatever cliche you want here.

Manu, now? He looks ready to retire. Can he come back on a vet min contract to save up $$ for free agency? Parker is spotty. I didn't watch y'all for much of the year but did injuries play a part in him slowing down this year? If he was just niggled out I don't see any reason he can't continue.

I think y'all adding LaMarcus would make y'all pretty ****ing tough to beat. Add in a healthy Splitter also.
Guitarsoup
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quote:
I didn't watch y'all for much of the year but did injuries play a part in him slowing down this year?


Injuries played a great deal in Parker slowing down all year and his poor play in the playoffs. Not sure we will see his former explosive self again.
Grapesoda2525
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It can't end like this. No it shouldn't..... This groups last game should not be a first round knockout in LA to a team who will probably lose to Houston. I hope Timmy, Parker, and Ginobli get some rest and give it one more crack.
Tressels Vest
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It will be interesting to see what happens with both the Mavs and the Spurs. Lots of free agents, especially some key players, and lots of players interested in both franchises. Going to be a wild offseason.
Iowaggie
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Questions for Spurs fans:
If Splitter and Parker are healthy, how does that change the timing of this thread?

Was Parker out of shape this year coming in?
Natasha Romanoff
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quote:
Questions for Spurs fans:
If Splitter and Parker are healthy, how does that change the timing of this thread?

Was Parker out of shape this year coming in?


I think we win the series with both at 100%, and challenge GS in the WCF. And I didn't watch as much at the beginning of the season, so can't speak to Parker's fitness.
Knife_Party
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I don't believe he was out of shape. He just had several injuries throughout the season. He's get better from one, come back, and then something else would go wrong. March was the month he was healthiest, and not coincidentally that was the month we tore up the NBA. He reinjured his achilles at the end of the regular season and probably had a hamstring issue as well.

Tiago pretty much same story. He was held out and held out at the end of the season to try and get that calf to heal, and it just never did. That sucker is probably all scar tissue now.

With a healthier Tony and Tiago our offense improves significantly. Tony was never a threat to get in the lane and couldn't even get by a clearly injured Paul. Tiago's rolls would have been better and I'll see he'd have played better individual defense. I understand every team has injuries, it just sucks because the years we had between 2007 and 2013 were full of injuries to key players and it's no surprise we never made it back to the finals. 2012 was probably the exception year.
BMX Bandit
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The Spurs run has been one of the most amazing things I've seen in my life watching sports. I won't say its "over" (as has been predicted several times before) until Duncan is no longer playing.
Code Maroon 12
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https://instagr.am/p/2Nfld0y68u
Cool picture Danny posted last night of the team at dinner.
SA Ag
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Happen to think Timmy will come back "one more time". He has his truck business
here and was romancing a "local yokel".
Natasha Romanoff
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quote:
https://instagram.com/p/2Nfld0y68u/
Cool picture Danny posted last night of the team at dinner.


I like to believe this team really likes to be around each other. Just seems like such a great group of guys.
dreyOO
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I think Tim is going to outlast them all. He looks to have another few years in him. Would be a key cog on the next gen spurs team if he wants to...
Cave Johnson, CEO
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Its crazy how much difference a year can make, Tony and Manu played at a level far below what they did last postseason. While it sucks getting bounced early they'll get far more rest this off season than they've gotten in 3 years. Hopefully everyone can heal up and get ready for another run.
Natasha Romanoff
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I think Tony has been more hobbled than we know. Because he was back to his old self before his Achilles tightened up again in March.

Manu could just be getting old, but he also sprained his ankle in March(?) I think. I'm not as worried about Tony, if he can stay healthy. If being the key word there.
jr15aggie
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Do they love each other enough to play for less so they can bring in another big time player? LA being the obvious big name, but perhaps Pop knows somebody else that will fit in better.

Just seems to me like we saw this same team be unbeatable last year, but it was pretty much a best case scenario of being healthy and in fire. Not to mention our two biggest hurdles were lowered big time... OKC losing Ibaka and Miami simply lost their edge and desire after 4 straight finals appearances.

Now with new teams taking the top spot and old dogs wanting to reclaim it, I think it's complety unrealistic to think this team will contend again with what they have. They are gonna have to add one big time player and perhaps another role player as well. That means a guy or two has to go. GSG!
jteagle
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quote:
Agreed about Tim. Manu probably needs to retire. Hate to say that but he's lost about two steps over the last couple year. Because they are getting off early I wouldn't be surprised to see guys come back and be in better health after 2 straight finals runs. I'd be down for an every other year run like in '03, '05, and '07. The injuries we had throughout the season and in these playoffs really killed us.
I agree about Manu and it is hard. It's like watching your parents grow old and you knew what they were once capable of but can no longer make it happen. Just look at his FT % as evidence. He was always money on Fts always above 80% and sometimes near 90. This year it dropped to 72%. His wild drives to the basket that used to end in a shot that made you wonder if he was a freaking magician now more often than not end in a turnover. With his style of play when you lose a step or two it shows up alot more than other players.
dreyOO
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yep, he's even losing his handle.

I think reggie miller called it right...his legs are gone.
saltydog13
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If Manu comes back for one year, I really hope he and Tony take the summer off from Euro ball so they can rest and be 100%
Enzo The Baker
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Danny Green showed last night why he is indispensable. We really need to re-sign him. I'm sure he'll command more than his current contract. My guess would be somewhere between the $6-8MM/yr. range.

Could someone break down our cap space for this offseason and what the max contract amount would be for Kawhi and TheMarcus/Gasol per year?
marble rye
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quote:
As a Rockets fan I just don't see how Tim is "too old" to play. The dude's game is so based on his intelligence and muscle memory that I still see him playing at the same level next year.


If Kevin Willis can play til he is 44, Tim can too. Why not just become a reserves player? Tim needs to be a DRob to the next Duncan. He has so much wisdom to give other players. Would he rather not do that?
Chipotlemonger
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No matter what happens, he's one of the guys (on any team in any sport) I'll remember watching most later on in life. Like you said, a magician on the hardwood. Single handedly brought the Spurs back in games and kept us in games time and time again over the years.
Matsui
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He was scoring at ease against B Griffin. I'm still shocked that old man basketball works with his skills.
Kramer
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So here's my worthless breakdown:

Tim: still one of the best. If he's willing, I'd still have him.

Splitter: Can't play against physical opponents. Cut him loose.

Leonard: toughest call of the offseason. Is he the future of the franchise or just a great defensive guy without the mental toughness to be elite? I can't give him max $$. The body of work just isn't there. Love to have him back, but he'll always need help.

Green: has to develop something other than 3 pt shooting. You can't win with a starter going 0 for. His defense is nice, but he has to contribute. Keep at minimum $.

Parker: he's got to stop playing for France. His legs need 2 months off every year. Not off as in not playing in games. I mean 2 months off as in not playing basketball at all.

Manu: it's over, buddy. Be a hell of a coach.

Diaw: he can just do so many things I have to keep him.

Bonner: I hope he never plays for the Spurs again and I've been saying that for 2 years. Brings nothing to the team.

Mills: if Parker is all but used up, the Spurs have some decisions to make at PG. I like Patty's fight, but he's such a liability on defense he's almost unplayable. I think the Spurs have to start looking for the next Parker, so bye Patty.

Baynes: he's coming on and you need big tough guys. Keep.

Marco: bye.

CuJo: love his fight but he's got to step up quick or be out with the rest of the small guard purge.

The rest: take or leave. Non factors.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Fans welcoming the team back home. Best fans in the league!



MookieBlaylock
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Glad u don't run the spurs bc you are clueless

Typing a bunch of words doesn't make you intelligent
JYDog90
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quote:
https://instagram.com/p/2Nfld0y68u/
Cool picture Danny posted last night of the team at dinner.
That makes me like the Spurs (and I don't like the Spurs).
TheDino
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That is quite the worthless breakdown, Kramer.

Woof.
Guitarsoup
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OK, here is where we are:

Unrestricted Free Agents:
Tim Duncan
Manu Ginobili
Danny Green
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Ayres
Matt Bonner
Reggie Williams

Possibly Restricted Free Agents: (Spurs must offer a qualifying offer for them to be restricted, QO in brackets)
Kawhi Leonard [4.3MM]
Corey Joseph [3.2MM]
Aron Baynes [2.6MM]

Under Contract:
Tony Parker [13.4MM; 3y43.3 left]
Tiago Splitter [8.5MM; 2y16.8 left]
Boris Diaw [7.5MM; 2y14.5 left with team option for 3rd year]
Patty Mills [3.2MM; 2y6.4 left]
Kyle Anderson [1.1MM; two team options after this year]

Projected cap ~67MM. Projected Luxury Tax: ~81MM.
Total committed: 33.7MM, not including cap holds and qualifying offers.

Cap Holds:
Kawhi Leonard 7.2MM
Danny Green 6MM
CoJo 4.2MM
Beli 3.4MM
Baynes 3.8MM
Two min cap holds 1MM

25.6MM in cap holds, not including Duncan and Ginobili.

Skipping the cap holds on the rest because Ayres, Williams and Bonner will leave or sign for league min if they want to stay. All of them will be renounced. Spurs can't do anything until Duncan and Manu decide what they want to do. I think Beli will stay at a similar contract to what he had.

Salaries + Cap Holds [Not including Duncan and Ginobili]= 59.3MM.

So obviously, we are way over the cap until Duncan and Manu re-sign or retire. Nothing can really be done until that happens. You can reduce each cap hold to about 500k by renouncing that player. Or you can sign them and the cap hold goes away and their actual salary counts against the team.

So what the Spurs can do all hinges on what Duncan decides. I think Manu retires and Duncan plays at least one more.

Currently Duncan is 14th in points, 6th in blocks and 8th in rebounds. If he has one more season about like this season (1000 points, 700 rebounds, 150 blocks) he will be 10th in points [pass Hakeem, Big O, Hondo and Dominique], 4th in blocks [pass DRob and Eaton], and 6th in rebounds [pass Parish and Malone]. Duncan and Kareem would be the only players top ten in all three.

Best case: Manu and Tim come back for veteran minimums. Resign Beli for 1y3.2mm (about 500k raise.) Renounce everyone else except Green+Leonard. Cap sits at about 52MM before resigning Duncan/Manu to vet min contracts. That means the Spurs have about 15MM to spend on free agents. The max for a guy like TheMarcus is 19mm.

While Tiago isn't the most popular here, I could see Portland accepting him as part of a S&T (2y16.8 is pretty favorable for a starting PF/C) rather than losing LMA flat out to Dallas or SA. Portland pursued Tiago very hard two years ago. If you can use Tiago's 7.5mm, your cap space increases to 22.5.

All that said, I don't think Gasol or Aldridge are realistic possibilities. LMA would be more probable, but would also be the second choice of the two.

Other PF/C options would include
DeAndre Jordan (Just add Chip)
Brook Lopez (no D, no rebounding)
Greg Monroe (pretty sure he stays in Detroit after they dumped Smoove)
Al Jefferson (wrong side of 30, defense has gotten better)
Hibbert (don't think he and Pop would mesh)
Tyson Chandler (Pop went after him hard years ago, defense not what it used to be)
Random foreigner that no one has ever heard of.
Kevin Love (no D, locker room issues in Cle)
Paul Millsap (Sorry Bud)
David West (wanna chase a ring in your old age?)


So that is where the Spurs are right now. Honestly, I don't see them doing too many huge moves unless they get absolutely lucky with Gasol or LMA.
BigBrother
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I would love to somehow, some way, get DJ to play next to Timmy. DJ is actually a pretty smart basketball player now, and the two of them backing each other up would be incredible. In fact, I'm going to say I'd rather have DJ than LaMarcus because a defense with Green, Kawhi, Timmy, and DJ would be skrong.
GatorAg03
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My first post, since this loss. Just a terrible end to a great run. That Pelicans game and lack of HCA was likely the difference in a series literally decided by a bucket.

The Spurs rolled the dice last season and brought back 100% of the same roster. It was a worthy risk and if not for a few injuries and a red hot Clips team with some home cooking it very well may have been rewarded. With that said, they lost in the 1st round, uncharacteristically struggled in close games all year, and shooting almost across the board declined. We are basically a Duncan post move or jump shot team now. Some changes have to be made with the West only getting stronger.

Manu - He either gets the Vet min or he is done. He absolutely still adds value at that price. He is still one if not our best pick and roll ball handler. I wouldn't mind seeing what he looks like with a long offseason for the Vet min.

Leonard - will get the max. It is a risk since he is still inconsistent offensively, but you have no choice but to sign him if you are the Spurs. He really needs to take the next step though offensively and stay healthy. Good PG play would help him tremendously.

Green - I have no idea which way this goes. How much does he want? How much does he command on an open market? He is definitely our best on ball defender against quick guards like CP, but a part of that is due to the defensive liability TP and Mills are at the point. JJ Redick completely outplayed Green and gets under $7 million. I wouldn't go much above that number and would let him walk if his cost pushes $10 million. If letting him walk would put you in play for a LA or a Gasol, then it's a no brainer. If that happens just keep Beli, re-sign Mnau, play Mills here occasionally and you will have similar offense with less defense and just hope an increased presence down low makes up for any deficiency in defense.

Parker - Is he just nicked up and tired or is he on a steady decline? That's the million dollar question. He seems to always be nicked up now when we need him the most. I wouldn't say he is a top half of the NBA PG anymore after his post season performance. I honestly would consider a trade here if it wouldn't upset the apple cart too much with Tim, but you have to trust the Spurs front office to make the call on what the problem was with TP this post season.

Tim - Keep him for the cheapest he will play for. He is still a top 5 big man in the NBA. I wouldn't mind a 2-3 year contract here as crazy as that sounds.

Splitter - I would try to move his salary as well if it frees up space for a big like Gasol, LA, Deandre Jordan, etc. Baynes is close to bringing a very similar skillset, even if not quite as good as a perimeter defender. He is overpaid for what he brings.

Beli - likely re-sign for similar money, if he wants more let him walk and consider giving a slight bump to Green or going after another 2.

Diaw - Our third best player this postseason besides Tim and Kawhi. He is under contract, so keep him and try to get him in a little better shape. Hope he finds his 3 ball this offseason.

Mills - Nice player, but not a starting PG. Keep him under his contract as an instant offense PG or SG in spots.

Baynes - showed signs and is a value at current contract.

Ayers, Bonner, CoJo, Anderson....who cares, just fillers.

Key needs - We need a big man that can consistently score in the post (Gasol or Aldridge please). If that doesn't happen go hard after Deandre Jordan and see if Chip can work some magic. If all 3 say no then see who is left of Al Jefferson, Chandler, West or Milsap to get a bit more offense out of our posts.

I would really look to upgrade the 2 guard position. Between Beli and Green that is likely 10-12 million in salary. Can we find a better 2 guard for that price and then bring back Manu or play Mills at times as backups? Also can we draft into this position for a backup role if we overpay for Green and have to let Beli walk? I know he is restricted, but I wouldn't be against going after Khris Middleton for $7-11 million to see if the bucks will match and then bring back Beli and Manu for cheap. This is a good option in my mind especially if we strike out at the high dollar bigs and are flush with cash. There is not much else here as far as unrestricted Free Agents, so Green might get overpaid by someone.

PG - As stated above, TP is likely the answer here if he can regain form. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot of nothing hitting Free Agency here. The problem is PG was our biggest black hole this post season run. Yes we were going against one of the best, but we were severely outplayed, had a huge defensive liability and were reduced to Duncan or a jump shot on 90% of our possessions. We have to get more out of the PG position or we aren't going anywhere.

Honestly, besides a couple big names in Free Agency, there really isn't a ton of big names or instant upgrades. Let's hope Green signs for a fair price and L Aldridge or Deandre want to come home or Gasol wants to win a title.
 
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