navyag86,

It appears you served our country in the Navy, if so, good bull.

You obviously do not like Jackie Sherill. I do. If I had been president of TAMU, I would have called David Berst and Jackie into my office, and told Berst to do whatever he felt best, but when the dust settled we would go right back to kicking tu's ass just like we had been.

By the way, DKR and Broyles were definitely not saints.

Jackie put A&M on top. My favorite quote was when he was walking out of the Cotton Bowl after we beat ND, the reporter asks, "Jackie you had been saying all week that you were worried that your little nose guard could not stop the ND run", Jackie looks at him and says that he knew all along ND could not run on A&M.
Another time after MSU beat tu at Austin, a reporter asks Jackie if he thought a home and home between tu and MSU would be good. Jackie looks at him and says that he had nothing to prove against tu that they could not beat him. I love his attitude. We need more of it.

JUST WIN BABY.

There is NOTHING in your post Navy Ag that said that Jackie Sherrill, as coach OR athletic director, personally committed any violation. His involvement was as a piece of the greater problem, but quite frankly, I think his piece was the LEAST objectionable. What I think was MOST objectionable was that he was put in a position where institutional control could not be managed.

Was he culpable for a lack of institutional control? Sure, so was every person to whom he answered and those who hired him in the conflicting roles of AD and HC. It's an institutional violation, not a personal one - in fact, no NCAA principle is less personal than "lack of institutional control." He never SHOULD have been both HC and AD but that wasn't only his fault, that was the fault of those who hired him. It was a great job for him, but created an atmosphere where there were no checks on either position by the other.

Texas A&M was punished for lack of institutional control, not Jackie Sherrill personally. Understanding the difference, I operate perfectly fine in the real world, thanks.

If Jackie Sherrill is such a fine, upstanding citizen, then why did he leave A&M? And why did it take him 2 years to find another coaching job after he left there? And when he did find another coaching job, why was it at Mississippi State, which isn't exactly the highest profile school?

No, DKR and Broyles weren't saints and Bear Bryant probably wasn't either. But at least none of them ever had to leave a school under controversy.

Who said he was a fine, upstanding citizen? Did he leave a program in the middle of controversy? Absolutely. He was also fielding accusations of a former player that he paid hush money to that player (proven wrong by an internal investigation by A&M and never reversed by the NCAA).

Jackie was no saint. But neither was he ever PERSONALLY found guilty of any violation (as it says, quite correctly, in the Wiki entry).

Decade, did you get fries with your lobotomy?

Damn...dumb may be genetic, but you are stupid by choice.

Jackie Sherrill was found by the NCAA to be PERSONALLY involved in at least 4 violations of either the NCAA Constitution or NCAA regulations as Director of Athletics and Head Football Coach. Following are direct quotes from the 1988 Texas A&M Infractions Report dated September 9, 1988:

Violation #1:

A. Significant violations of NCAA legislation.

8. During the 1986-87 academic year, a prospective student-athlete was contacted in person, off campus for recruiting purposes on two occasions by a representative of the university's athletics interests; further, at a meeting a few days before the date for signing a National Letter of Intent, the representative offered an improper recruiting inducement (an automobile at a discount rate) to the young man, and finally, the head football coach, who also was the director of athletics, became aware of the representative's activities, but did not report this information to the NCAA enforcement staff. Although the director of athletics told another university administrator about this incident, he failed to inform the administrator of the university's duty to report this violation to the NCAA. In fact, this matter was not reported to the NCAA. [NCAA Constitution 3-2, and Bylaws 1-1-(b) and 1-2-(b)]

That's the violation of the NCAA Constitution. Jackie Sherrill had personal knowledge of a major infraction and as Director of Athletics for the University had the duty to report said major violation to the NCAA and he didn't perform his duty.

Violations 2-4:

B. Other violations of NCAA legislation.

10. During the 1984-85 academic year, while recruiting a prospective student-athlete, the head football coach and an assistant football coach contacted the prospect in person, off campus in excess of the permissible three occasions at the young man's high school. [NCAA Bylaws 1-2-(a)-(I) and 1-2-(a)-(5)]

12. During the 1984-85 academic year, while recruiting a prospective student-athlete, the head football coach and two assistant football coaches contacted the young man in person, off campus for recruiting purposes on more than the permissible number of occasions at and away from the young man's educational institution. [NCAA Bylaws 1-2-(a)-(l) and 1-2-(a)-(l)-(i)]

15. During the 1986-87 academic year, the head football coach asked a representative of the university's athletics interests to invite the father of two prospective student-athletes to a luncheon, although such entertainment is not permitted under NCAA rules. This violation was self-reported by the university. [NCAA Bylaw 1-1(a)]

That's 3 more violations of NCAA regulations personally involving the Director of Athletics and Head Football coach, one Jackie Sherrill.

Further, the NCAA adopted William Mobley's actions against Jackie Sherrill in lieu of imposing their own sanctions against him for his personal involvement.

One would have to be dumber than dirt to continue to defend the actions of Jackie Sherrill and to continue to repeat the lie that Jackie Sherrill was not found to have been personally involved in infractions while the AD/Head Coach at Texas A&M. You are either completely and thoroughly eaten up with the dumb a55 or your willing to close your eye, cover your ears and hum real loud while totally ignoring fact and pushing the lie. Jackie Sherrill and his actions as Director of Athletics and Head Football Coach were, and still are, and embarrassment to any Aggie of good character. Winning does not salve a lie and winning does not cover up cheating.

Jackie Sherrill isn't the only coach to intentionally run a program with no regard for the rules, he's not the only coach to be personally involved in NCAA violations, but none of that excuses one thing he did during his tenure in Aggieland and it certainly doesn't miraculously change what he did either.

ag32786,

I don't like liars and I don't like cheaters regardless of who they coach for and I especially don't want to lower my integrity by looking the other way so as to ignore cheating so that I could enjoy athletic success of a football team, to me such actions speak of low self-esteem, low integrity, and desparation.

I guess everyone's personal integrity has its price, mine isn't quite that low.

I have NEVER disrespected you and if you can't return the same, you get the last and wrong word. Apologize for the personal attacks and I will answer your post and engage in real debate with you on this subject.

navyag86,

You lost all credibility with me when you called out folks as stupid.

Get over yourself and get lost.

decade. There is no debating the truth. The truth is that Jackie Sherrill was found to have been personally involved in violations of the NCAA Constitution and NCAA Regulations while employed as the Director of Athletics and Head Football Coach of Texas A&M University. There is no debate about those facts in any way.

If you want to play the clintonesque word wrangling game with others you can do so, Jackie Sherrill is and was an embarrassment to any Ag of character. I've got no use for him and find nothing remotely redeeming in his tarnished accomplishments on the football field. If you can't win without lying and cheating then the price for winning is way too damn high. You might want to con yourself into believing what he did was justifiable because you believe "everyone else was doing it" but I don't play those games.

ag327, in your mind no one loses credibility for believing and pushing lies, but they do by calling a spade a spade. In my book a person who pushes a lie when the truth is readily available is stupid. Might be harsh but it is the truth. Believe as you will.

truth in your eyes

you need to respect others to have any respect yourself

you are way over the top

HAHA i read the section where he had the taco meat animal castrated in Maxim magazine a couple months back

Ugh it edits out everything. I tried.

[This message has been edited by SwampFox (edited 4/24/2007 10:28p).]

My response is prepared. Just waiting on you to man-up Navy. I called you no names and accused you of nothing. I didn't even tell you you were wrong.

Yet you insult. My feelings are truly not hurt, your insults made you look foolish, not me. However, I will not give you the respect of discourse without an apology.

LOL Swampy, indeed it is.

He left on his own. There was a rift with him and the pres. He could have stayed and split the university. The pres did not like that he had virtually all the power aka. donors dollars. He was going to completly retire after leaving here. Then decided to look for another job. There were alot of issues to deal with in the short time after him leaving ie divorce, and other things.
How you are saying that he was found guilty because he was the AD, is dumb. The NCAA instituted the rule that you cannot be both AD and head coach, after he was already both.

I love the way any Jackie post brings out the aching 'sips. He delivered a brand across their hide that will NEVER fade.

Awesome!

Yep Analogy, and that is why he is gone. Say what you will about the cs sips, but they do have stroke.

12-7

ag327. Truth doesn't depend on how I see it. Truth is unchangeable. Jackie Sherrill has broken the rules at every institution where he's been a head coach. It has nothing to do with interpretation.

In what society is lying considered respectful behavior? I have no need to respect anyone not worthy of respect and I certainly do not have to respect them in order to respect myself. Did you grow up in a commune or something or just spend your youth watching Dharma and Greg? Way over the top in my book is swallowing a lie because it fortifies a small ego. Way over the top is becoming an embarrassment pushing a lie when the evidence is abundant and easily accessible.

Decade, I don't care that you've got a response prepared.

Glad to hear it Navy. You're a narrow-minded waste of time. Cya.

decade. Your understanding of what went on under Sherrill and what the NCAA sanctioned Texas A&M's football team for is the root of your problem. The refusal to either avail yourself to those facts or completely ignore them is what makes you look foolish (as well as others) and to be an embarrassment to those who do avail themselves to the facts and do not ignore them.

You stated earlier:

"Texas A&M was punished for lack of institutional control, not Jackie Sherrill personally. Understanding the difference, I operate perfectly fine in the real world, thanks."

Lack of Institutional Control is a catch-all infraction and wasn't what Texas A&M was punished for. Texas A&M was punished for numerous violations of NCAA regulations and even the NCAA Constitution and it was punished for unethical conduct on the part of members of its coaching staff. Jackie Sherrill was personally involved with at least 4 of the violations of NCAA Regulations and/or the NCAA Constitution. It is a complete lie for anyone to claim that the NCAA didn't find Jackie Sherrill personally guilty of violations because they did indeed find the Director of Athletics and the Head Football Coach to be personally involved in infractions.

Defending a lie is not a respectable position.

we were supposed to talk about how cool it was that he cut off the bull's nads. The other was just a taunt.

JS was a saint!

We had a two new traditions started by JS, 12th Man KO Team and beating the hell outta tu EVERY YEAR...look what has happened since he left

PS: I know he wasn't a saint, but I also know he was doing nothing different then what was/is occuring in Austin...don't know the current status of his lawsuit againstthe NCAA but I hope that gets the light shown on what they allow to occur in one place, yet crackdown on at another...BTW, SMU and TCU were not the highest paying organizations

Ottr nailed it.

nuf said

our turn nailed nothing and did nothing but repeat the "everyone was doing it" dodge and that's a low character rationalization for the lying and cheating that went on in ever Sherrill coaching staff. I guess selling one's integrity to win a few football games is nothing to some. Jackie Sherrill should embarrass every ag who professes to be of high character. I hope you guys aren't parents if that's how you view integrity.

[This message has been edited by navyag86 (edited 4/25/2007 3:16p).]

navy...since you recognize nothing but the bad side of JS you have lost any credibility you may have had earlier in the thread

I'll just stop at that...you're a waste of time

quote:

---

Ottr nailed it.

---

I disagree. Navyag nailed it.

If you are an aggie and you support JS, you foreit any right to claim that you live by the "aggie code of honor".

Your no better (or worse) than anybody else.

[This message has been edited by Office Linebacker (edited 4/25/2007 3:53p).]

My credibility doesn't rest in what you think, the truth doesn't change because you want it to. Looking the other way because the results of lying and cheating soothe your wounded ego is childish. Selling one's integrity for football success is pathetic.

"An Aggie does not lie, cheat, or steal
or tolerate those who do."

That either means something or it doesn't. William Mobley didn't tolerate "those who do" and he's vilified by people who claim some sort of credit because that code is written. If you tolerate those who do you are as bad as those who lie, cheat, and steal.

The Texas A&M I grew up with was the Texas A&M where the code of honor was real, and not something losers bragged about but then ignored in their lives. Some of the same guys on this thread ignoring the lies and cheating of Jackie Sherrill turn around and talk about the lack of character of tech and tu fans? They must have been giving free neuterings to go with those lobotomies.

Character does matter.

quote:

---

Character does matter.

---

Not if you can beat Texas.

Somehow I find it amusing that sips try so hard to beat up on Jackie while denying their own cheating. Don't forget that tu was placed on a two year probation for cheating at the same time A&M was placed on probation. The offenses at tu by their coach and athletic dept. were as severe as those elsewhere. The difference was that tu had alumni serving on the NCAA enforcement staff. Belo publications (tu alum) made sure public opinion was negative toward one school while favorable toward the other. The power of the press worked it miracle.

I have the greatest respect for Coach Sherrill. When his book is published be sure to buy a copy, Then decide.

To the obnoxious and ignorant sips in this thread...

quote:

---

In fact, the NCAA gave Sherrill as ringing an endorsement as it has ever offered any coach whose integrity had been questioned. A letter from the home office absolved Sherrill of direct involvement in the sins that led to A&M's penalty. Of even greater drama, the NCAA closed its files on claims by a former player that he had received "hush money" from Sherrill.

The report said, in part, that its investigators "could not in this case distinguish fact from fiction." Today you recognize this as a tremendous victory for Jackie. Never in its history had the NCAA hesitated to embrace fiction when it served its purposes.

---

From this article:

http://amarillonet.big12.net/stories/120500/tam_12050011189.shtml

Once again Office Linebacker stirring up trouble while contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion.