I had been wondering about coaching records over the years. Thanks for sharing. Looks like we should have kept Sumlin longer based on records. My issue is just how much we pay the coaches, and then watch other teams beat us with coaches other schools pay a lot less.

Once the California law goes into effect nationwide, we can skip giving the 12th Man Foundation $45 million a year and divide it among top recruits. That should get us somewhere.

Things have changed a lot since 1980. The north is no longer filled with great athletes. We now have a much larger alumni base while most of our competitors alumni bases have remained constant. We are the only program in-state in the clearly best conference. Our 2 primary recruiting competitors are stuck in a conference tied for 3rd.

We fell down during the Bush 43 years b/c we allowed our competitors to far surpass us in facilities during the Clinton years. If the Bright Center had been built by say 2001, 2003 probably happens but 2005 and 2008 would not have been so bad.

Fran was a bad hire and propper vetting would have turned that up. Extending Sumlin was also unwise.

The bigs meddling is ineveitable, at least until Jimbo fully wins them over. But we will never face such structural challenges like we did for most of our history, or get caught flat-footed like in the late 90s. We are set up for long-term success. It just might take a few more years.

The schools with championship trophies overflowing in their cases have excellent recruiters. We don't
For some reason, we lack putting studs on the field at the same time. We find one hero and that's about it. Other schools get multiple stars.
If it's going to take Jimbo several years to build a champion, then he better do some damn good recruiting.

South Platte said:

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MondayMorningQB said:

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Why don't you go find how many losing seasons we've had in the modern era (since '73) and get back to us OP.

Next task go see how many other schools have fewer than ten losing seasons AND ten or more 10+ wining seasons in that same time span.

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How about you just tell us the answer . . .

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The answer is 7, we've only had 7 seasons of .500 or less. Only TX school to own single digits losing records.

There are only 8 teams with a .500 or less losing season nationallyAnd of those 8 only 6 have 20+ 10 win or more seasons:

Bama
USC
OU
tOSU
NEB
FSU

So if you want to back up a second and take a big picture view... many strive for greatness and few achieve it. About 5% of CFB can truly claim blue blood status.

Add one Natty in the next ten years of winning seasons and we're just on the outside of the elite circle of six.

If you get excited about a 100 yr decision than you should be good with 10yr results.

RC and Johnny looking pretty good.

CoolAggie said:

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Program A
Overall Record: 749-459-45 (.616)
Conference Titles: 24
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 44

Program B
Overall Record: 744-483-48 (.602)
Conference Titles: 18
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 40

Team A is the defending national champion, Team B is a little old farm college in Texas. You never know when a program will eventually reach the summit. We're hoping Jimbo gets us there but if it he doesn't get it done, don't give up hope.

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UMM, please stop claiming the retro-NC's from '19 and '27. Especially in the context of comparing to Clemson with 3 titles since the 42nd anniversary of our ONE and ONLY NC. (1939-1981).

Our propaganda machine has pumped this in to the ether. I don't buy it.

OP gets A&M

72jag said:

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The schools with championship trophies overflowing in their cases have excellent recruiters. We don't
For some reason, we lack putting studs on the field at the same time. We find one hero and that's about it. Other schools get multiple stars.
If it's going to take Jimbo several years to build a champion, then he better do some damn good recruiting.

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There were a lot of studs on the 2012-2013 teams, including a Heisman-winning, first-round QB,a first-round WR, and some first-round OLs, if I am not mistaken.

OTredux said:

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CoolAggie said:

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Program A
Overall Record: 749-459-45 (.616)
Conference Titles: 24
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 44

Program B
Overall Record: 744-483-48 (.602)
Conference Titles: 18
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 40

Team A is the defending national champion, Team B is a little old farm college in Texas. You never know when a program will eventually reach the summit. We're hoping Jimbo gets us there but if it he doesn't get it done, don't give up hope.

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UMM, please stop claiming the retro-NC's from '19 and '27. Especially in the context of comparing to Clemson with 3 titles since the 42nd anniversary of our ONE and ONLY NC. (1939-1981).

Our propaganda machine has pumped this in to the ether. I don't buy it.

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I understand your point that but other independent sites credit us for the MNC's so that's why I counted them.

If y'all ever want to run side by side comparisons, check out this site:

Winsipedia

Quote:

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UMM, please stop claiming the retro-NC's from '19 and '27. Especially in the context of comparing to Clemson with 3 titles since the 42nd anniversary of our ONE and ONLY NC. (1939-1981).

Our propaganda machine has pumped this in to the ether. I don't buy it.

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Our 1917 & 1919 teams were undefeated AND unscored upon; if that is not a National Championship level team than please give me other metrics to use.

There might have been 10 undefeated and untied and unscored upon teams in 1910's every year. CFB started with the AP era in the early 30's. Hell, half the teams in the country still played air force bases, YMCA's, and ROTC's.

Frank Grimes said:

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72jag said:

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The schools with championship trophies overflowing in their cases have excellent recruiters. We don't
For some reason, we lack putting studs on the field at the same time. We find one hero and that's about it. Other schools get multiple stars.
If it's going to take Jimbo several years to build a champion, then he better do some damn good recruiting.

---

There were a lot of studs on the 2012-2013 teams, including a Heisman-winning, first-round QB,a first-round WR, and some first-round OLs, if I am not mistaken.

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More than we'd typically had, maybe. But still far fewer than the teams were trying to run with.

When Manziel left, we had 3 get drafted in the 1st round. Problem is, those were the only 3 that got drafted at all that year.
Meanwhile the Bamas, OhSt's, LSUs are putting in like 7+? Or more? And they do it year after year after year....

Until we're doing that, we're still looking up at em, from an overall talent standpoint....

CoolAggie said:

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Program A
Overall Record: 749-459-45 (.616)
Conference Titles: 24
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 44

Program B
Overall Record: 744-483-48 (.602)
Conference Titles: 18
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 40

Team A is the defending national champion, Team B is a little old farm college in Texas. You never know when a program will eventually reach the summit. We're hoping Jimbo gets us there but if it he doesn't get it done, don't give up hope.

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You are really going to compare a legit title from 1939 and then two titles claimed 90 years after the fact against a title from the 80s and two in the last few years?

We've also never had a recruiting and money advantage over the sips and OU before. We now have something the big12 can not offer - playing the best week in and week out.

Let's have our championship winning coach work his recruiting and magic to get us there.

We have a big advantage now that we have never had. If you cannot see that go back to rooting for a big12 team

Right now the State of Texas is growing fast. The size of the school, alumni base and money will continue to grow at a fast pace. This will take us to a new level we have never seen. Other schools in other states will not be able to keep up eventually. That's why Jimbo came. What works against us is the media and the blue blood status that impacts things like refereeing, TV pundits, news coverage, etc....

Are you happy now that you have posted info that we all know about. Oh yeah, one more to use the mediocre angle. Cheap bad bull

Not true. You obviously were not around the SWC in the early days.

83Aggie said:

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RC lost only four, count 'em four times at Kyle during the entire '90s

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In his final three seasons, his teams went 2-8 in the month of November, including three losses at Kyle.

Go all the way back to 1957 and it looks worse.

TxAg76 said:

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Frank Grimes said:

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72jag said:

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The schools with championship trophies overflowing in their cases have excellent recruiters. We don't
For some reason, we lack putting studs on the field at the same time. We find one hero and that's about it. Other schools get multiple stars.
If it's going to take Jimbo several years to build a champion, then he better do some damn good recruiting.

---

There were a lot of studs on the 2012-2013 teams, including a Heisman-winning, first-round QB,a first-round WR, and some first-round OLs, if I am not mistaken.

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More than we'd typically had, maybe. But still far fewer than the teams were trying to run with.

When Manziel left, we had 3 get drafted in the 1st round. Problem is, those were the only 3 that got drafted at all that year.
Meanwhile the Bamas, OhSt's, LSUs are putting in like 7+? Or more? And they do it year after year after year....

Until we're doing that, we're still looking up at em, from an overall talent standpoint....

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Fair point.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Seamaster said:

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1982: 5-6
1983: 5-5-1
1984: 6-5
1985: 10-2
1986: 9-3
1987: 10-2
1988: 7-5 Sherrill 7 years Avg wins = 7.4

1989: 8-4
1990: 9-3-1
1991: 10-2
1992: 12-1
1993: 10-2
1994: 10-0-1
1995: 9-3
1996: 6-6
1997: 9-4
1998: 11-3
1999: 8-4
2000: 7-5
2001: 8-4
2002: 6-6 Slocum 14 years Avg wins = 8.8

2003: 4-8
2004: 7-5
2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4
2007: 7-6 Fran 5 years Avg wins = 6.4

2008: 4-8
2009: 6-7
2010: 9-4
2011: 7-6 Sherman 4 years Avg wins = 6.5

2012: 11-2
2013: 9-4
2014: 8-5
2015: 8-5
2016: 8-5
2017: 7-6 Sumlin 6 years Avg wins = 8.5

2018: 9-4 Jimbo Fisher
2019: 3-2....so far

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Let's quit firing coaches every 5-6 years and develop some culture of stability

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In about that same time of 6 coaches:
Iowa Hawkeyes
Hayden Fry (1979-98): 143-89-6 (3 Big Ten Titles; 10 Top 20 finishes; averaged just over 7 wins a year and 4.5 losses a year)
Kirk Ferentz (1999-current): 156-101 (2 Big Ten titles, 6 Top 20 finishes: ave about 7.6 wins & 5 losses a year)


Granted the talent level is much lower and it is a tougher place to recruit, but that has been stability.

But people still complain about it. They wouldn't have lasted here.

Stability is great when you have Saban, but I'm not sure that is the realistic world of college football.

MondayMorningQB said:

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South Platte said:

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MondayMorningQB said:

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Why don't you go find how many losing seasons we've had in the modern era (since '73) and get back to us OP.

Next task go see how many other schools have fewer than ten losing seasons AND ten or more 10+ wining seasons in that same time span.

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How about you just tell us the answer . . .

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The answer is 7, we've only had 7 seasons of .500 or less. Only TX school to own single digits losing records.

There are only 8 teams with a .500 or less losing season nationallyAnd of those 8 only 6 have 20+ 10 win or more seasons:

Bama
USC
OU
tOSU
NEB
FSU

So if you want to back up a second and take a big picture view... many strive for greatness and few achieve it. About 5% of CFB can truly claim blue blood status.

Add one Natty in the next ten years of winning seasons and we're just on the outside of the elite circle of six.

If you get excited about a 100 yr decision than you should be good with 10yr results.

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...and all 6 of those teams have NC hardware. Some have multiple trophies. We don't. So our single digit sub .500 season metric is 100% worthless.

I'm beyond tired of waiting to be anything other than "almost there". We've been "almost there" since 1939 - that's long enough to wait. Meanwhile teams like Alabama, OU, SCw, Clemson, tOSU....all have multiple national championship trophies to show. We are still the kid on the bench wondering if we will ever get picked to play in the game. It's old, enough Ags have gone their entire lives without sniffing a national championship. I hope I'm not one of them, but odds are stacked against me and I'm likely to be yet another of the several hundred thousand that will be gone from this earth without ever seeing my alma mater be crowned the champion (in football, baseball or basketball for that matter).

Self loathing Texags sucks...

Seamaster said:

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So what's the point of the OP? It's that we shouldn't expect things to be different. That right there is just darn near a biblical generation (40 years is after all how long the Israelites wandered the desert) of just middling success.

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Or maybe the point is that ******* enjoy giving up and love to recruit folks on the internet to join them. Also GFYO.

Sumlin was good.

If you are class of 99 and dont have a terminal illness, the odds are good. There are 20 programs capable of winning. Stay alive for 20 more years and you have a 2/3 chance of seeing a football title. Stay alive 30 more years and you are up to ~80%.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Quote:

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UMM, please stop claiming the retro-NC's from '19 and '27. Especially in the context of comparing to Clemson with 3 titles since the 42nd anniversary of our ONE and ONLY NC. (1939-1981).

Our propaganda machine has pumped this in to the ether. I don't buy it.

---

Our 1917 & 1919 teams were undefeated AND unscored upon; if that is not a National Championship level team than please give me other metrics to use.

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I don't give a crap about who won what in 1917 and 1919. Gawd, this is pathetic.

Seamaster said:

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In my lifetime (but the same is true for whenever you were born):

1980: 4-7
1981: 7-5
1982: 5-6
1983: 5-5-1
1984: 6-5
1985: 10-2
1986: 9-3
1987: 10-2
1988: 7-5
1989: 8-4
1990: 9-3-1
1991: 10-2
1992: 12-1
1993: 10-2
1994: 10-0-1
1995: 9-3
1996: 6-6
1997: 9-4
1998: 11-3
1999: 8-4
2000: 7-5
2001: 8-4
2002: 6-6
2003: 4-8
2004: 7-5
2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4
2007: 7-6
2008: 4-8
2009: 6-7
2010: 9-4
2011: 7-6
2012: 11-2
2013: 9-4
2014: 8-5
2015: 8-5
2016: 8-5
2017: 7-6
2018: 9-4
2019: 3-2....so far

Sigh.

High points. Well, 6 SWC Championships. So that's nice. 1 Big 12 Championship. One Heisman Trophy.

Other than that? Mediocre. The Aggies usually beat the teams they're supposed to beat (directional schools) and normally lose to teams they're not favored to beat (Clemson, Bama etc).

We're not that good. Compare the past 39 years to OU, Texas, LSU, Alabama etc. A&M is basically Texas Tech.

Get used to it Ags. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

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That's 40 years of football.

For comparison ..during that time tu won 324 games
Aggies won 307 games

That's a difference of 17 games over 40 years.

My point is tu isn't that good either. Look at the records.

We should have had a natty in the 90's. We were close

It takes a good coach and some luck to win nattys

Edit
TT won 253 games Over the same 40 years
That's 54 games less than the Aggies

I wouldn't say we compare well to them

Edit.
Ou won 364 games during that 40 year period

Interestingly from 1980-1999 ou was 152/77
They won 67% of their games.

The Aggies were 165/72 which is 70%

Point is football is cyclical.

Fans only remember yesterday. It's a fan problem not a tamu problem.

TMF said:

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Things would be different if we spent money under Slocum. We gave him no resources.

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Tceh whipped up on RC with what exactly?

Quote:

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Of that list, Sherrill was the only one that was let go too soon.

Slocum had 14 years, managed a single Big XII championship. Bowl record sucked. Record against ranked opponents sucked. OU and tu pushed us out of the top place in the region and we never had a chance at getting back.

Fran was here a year too long. Absolutely destroyed the program.

Sherman was a good ole boy network type of hire. Great talent evaluator, but his NFL coaching style didn't translate into the college game. Was never going to be more than average and everybody knew it.

Sumlin was given the keys and a fresh start in the SEC, hot as F out of the gates but the trend is pretty clear that we were going to continue to go downhill. Quit being a coach and left his assistants and players out to dry. He should have been gone after 2016.

It's not a matter of allowing coaches to stay long enough, we haven't done a good job at picking coaches that have the killer attitude and that have the drive to get to the top. We may have changed that with Fisher, time will tell if he still has that drive or if he's milking us for a retirement. I hope it's the former and not the latter.

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Agree

If anything, we have allowed coaches to stay too long

Slocum should have been let go after the 2000 season

When we lost to ou in a heartbreaker and then got drubbed by tu it was clear that Mack and stoops were the new sheriffs in town

Dunn should have been let go after the year we had knight and we got out to a 7-1 start and then collapsed including losing to two bad Mississippi teams

But I'm actually glad he wasn't because we have jimbo now and wouldn't have had him had we let sumlin ho back then

Fran was an atrocity and frankly, should have been shown the door after 77-0

CoolAggie said:

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Program A
Overall Record: 749-459-45 (.616)
Conference Titles: 24
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 44

Program B
Overall Record: 744-483-48 (.602)
Conference Titles: 18
National Championships: 3
Bowl Games: 40

Team A is the defending national champion, Team B is a little old farm college in Texas. You never know when a program will eventually reach the summit. We're hoping Jimbo gets us there but if it he doesn't get it done, don't give up hope.

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The funny thing about this is Clemson didn't even have 700 wins only 5 years ago. It is amazing what a run like theirs can have on a slightly better than mediocre long history in just a short time.

Edit: Since the 6-7 season Dabo had, Clemson has gone 97-15 over the last 8 full seasons (not including this year). If you remove those 8 seasons, their overall record drop to 647-444-45 (.593). That really highlights just how much their recent run has meant to their overall record and winning percentage.
If you take away those same seasons from our record, we were 674-444-48 (.602) which is the same winning percentage we are at now. Hey, at least we're consistent.

But we never lost a halftime. So we've got that going for us.

Agsuffering@bulaw said:

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If you are class of 99 and dont have a terminal illness, the odds are good. There are 20 programs capable of winning. Stay alive for 20 more years and you have a 2/3 chance of seeing a football title. Stay alive 30 more years and you are up to ~80%.

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How old do I have to get to get to 100%?

Because right now we are at 80 years since our last one. 80 years. 8 decades. 80% of a full century.

Still at 0%.