You are being more obtuse.

Paying back a scholarship because you don't finish is not unheard of.

TexasRebel said:

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You are being more obtuse.

Paying back a scholarship because you don't finish is not unheard of.

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In college football it is.

And you are moving the goal posts again.

Moving there from where? I have been firmly planted in the same place.

Require scholarships to be predicate on receiving a degree. I don't care if they leave early, but it should come with consequences. If you're making millions, a couple of years tuition for what education you did receive to replenish the coffers is not too much to ask.

TexasRebel said:

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Moving there from where? I have been firmly planted in the same place.

Require scholarships to be predicate on receiving a degree. I don't care if they leave early, but it should come with consequences. If you're making millions, a couple of years tuition for what education you did receive to replenish the coffers is not too much to ask.

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Again, this isn't about academics. Once you realize that you will feel better. I didn't say it isn't too much to ask. I said it isn't going to happen. And frankly it shouldn't. The schools make way more than the "lost tuition" you are worried about.

Admit it. You are just upset that we may miss out on seeing a really good player play in a meaningless bowl game. You can't care that much about the money.

No. I think it's ridiculous that schools don't use students as athletes.

You must not read many of my posts.
I would be just fine missing out on seeing any player that doesn't value an education play a game.

TexasRebel said:

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No. I think it's ridiculous that schools don't use students as athletes.

You must not read many of my posts.
I would be just fine missing out on seeing any player that doesn't value an education play a game.

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You would rather see the average student play football than the elite players we have.

Like I said, your suggestion is bad for the game, bad for the players, and bad for most fans. It is only good for people like you. All three of you.

You would rather see elite athletes steal scholarships from talented kids that want to be a part of productive society and receive (in their eyes) no compensation?

Just make a minor league and leave collegiate athletics to students. Works fine for baseball.

TexasRebel said:

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That's up to the school.

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This shows how terrible your idea is

"You have to pay us back if you don't finish, but we may not give you a scholarship next year"

TexasRebel said:

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You would rather see elite athletes steal scholarships from talented kids that want to be a part of productive society and receive (in their eyes) no compensation?

Just make a minor league and leave collegiate athletics to students. Works fine for baseball.

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No athlete at the D1 level is taking scholarships from academically inclined students. Stop making things up.

You think football scholarships go toward academically inclined students?

BMX Bandit said:

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TexasRebel said:

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That's up to the school.

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This shows how terrible your idea is

"You have to pay us back if you don't finish, but we may not give you a scholarship next year"

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Sounds like that school wouldn't have so many takers.
Contracts cannot be fully summarized in a sentence. There would certainly be clauses that took care of cases like injury and continued education. Many different ways to leave, but "I'm 'going to college' to get drafted into the NFL" would not be one with an exception.

If you can't see why guys do this after seeing the Jaylon Smith and for that matter Willis McGahee injury then there is no discuion to be made. These guys came to school to major in football and if they have a for sure first round grade, the financial incentive to ensure they get that first contact. It the schools would stop being cheap *******s and but the guys in this situation insurance policies to cover against this then my tune would change. Until that happens don't tell me they got a scholarship, lol, get real.

TexasRebel said:

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You think football scholarships go toward academically inclined students?

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No, but apparently you do.

TexasRebel said:

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You would rather see elite athletes steal scholarships from talented kids that want to be a part of productive society and receive (in their eyes) no compensation?

Just make a minor league and leave collegiate athletics to students. Works fine for baseball.

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Your assumption that NFL football players aren't part of productive society is rather insulting.

Just admit that you want something that is never going to happen and that it actually doesn't achieve what you want it to achieve anyway. You have dug in on an emotional argument based on a false premise.

Athletic scholarships are not about academics for a lot of these kids. And going to the NFL makes a lot more sense for them than staying to graduate.

That isn't going to change. If it did, it would be bad for the college game.

Scholarships aren't about academics?

Do you see your flawwed premise yet?

TexasRebel said:

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You would rather see elite athletes steal scholarships from talented kids that want to be a part of productive society and receive (in their eyes) no compensation?

Just make a minor league and leave collegiate athletics to students. Works fine for baseball.

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Baseball players leave before graduation for the draft all the time, the difference is there are no full scholarships in baseball

TexasRebel said:

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Scholarships aren't about academics?

Do you see your flawwed premise yet?

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Athletic scholarships ceased being about academics a long time ago. Welcome to the new world. Words don't mean what you think they mean. You are naive and I feel sorry for you.

But hey, keep living in your utopian world where football players are here for an education.

I guess failing courses doesn't affect eligibility in this "new" world, then?

TexasRebel said:

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I guess failing courses doesn't affect eligibility in this "new" world, then?

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Look, man. I get it. I want Texas A&M to be a place if higher education too. But 75% of the budget at Texas A&M (and I am not even talking about athletics) has nothing to do with academics.

I am sorry. I really am. But that is the reality. I think you are a good guy and you want the same things I do. I am just more realistic about it than you are.

Good luck to you. I hope we can get back to what things are supposed to be. But I don't have a lit of hope.

Quote:

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75% of the budget at Texas A&M (and I am not even talking about athletics) has nothing to do with academics.

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Can you begin to back this up?

TexasRebel said:

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Quote:

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75% of the budget at Texas A&M (and I am not even talking about athletics) has nothing to do with academics.

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Can you begin to back this up?

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I worked for two academic departments at TAMU and did their budgets. So yes. I can.

Have you taken any classes with any athletes? For those that dont care, which is a high percentage, they have tutors that get them to pass their high school level course they are enrolled in. I took summer us history which was half athletes: football, basketball, among others. I could have made an A in that course as a 7th or 8th grader. I finished the 40 question final in under 15 minutes. I was embarrassed for the professor and my university.

Research is the major part of academia.

...If that's what you're discounting.

TexasRebel said:

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Research is the major part of academia.

...If that's what you're discounting.

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You continue to move the goal posts. I am done with this discussion as long as you keep being obtuse.

Good luck to you. I hope you find some solace in our discussion. You obviously need it.

Where have the goalposts moved from and to?

So you are saying football players have an obligation to risk a career ending injury to play in a bowl game to help fund the equestrian team and the administrative bloat in the college athletic department?

Annie Clark (St. Vincent) left Berklee School of Music early to join The Polyphonic Spree and is now using the skills she gained at Berklee to become a major music performer. Berklee did not tell her she owed them to stay around and finish her degree. I am sure they said, "Congratulations! Now go out and become a star." Why aren't fans telling the players who skip to bowl games that they can't wait to watch them play on Sunday.

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No athlete at the D1 level is taking scholarships from academically inclined students. Stop making things up.

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If the AD only had football, basketball and enough female scholarships to balance, the savings could be reinvested in scholarships for the academically deserving. Educating athletes has an opportunity cost.

TxSquarebody said:

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TexasRebel said:

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I always hated that saying.

There is clearly a "me" in team. Even if it's backward and convoluted.

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There is also an "i" in TEAM if you shade in the blank spot of the letter "A".

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Yup. that's how you find the I in team. Look for the A hole!

annie88 said:

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Bluecat_Aggie94 said:

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It's bad.

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This. Don't agree with it. Guess that's where we are in this me first era. No I in Team.

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We are talking about college football here not the Marines. For most people the purpose of College is preparation for a professional career. It is a LOT to ask a person who participates in sport that has a very high risk of serious injury to participate in what is for all intents and purposes a glorified scrimmage. If my son was a projected high draft pick in the NFL I would absolutely support his decision to skip a bowl game.

I wonder if at some point the bowl committee would "uninvite" a team who's top player(s) publicly chose to stay home (assumes it's possible, probably not)? Be interesting if this starts to change things, especially the smaller bowls.

JFF wins the Heisman and skips the game with OU? Would be a huge blow to the ratings/marketability and possibly attendance of the game? So far as I can recollect, no playoff team has had top players sit out, but imagine if they did? Not a stretch to imagine Murray take his hardware and health and stroll away into the MLB sunset (Sooner tears would be glorious). Suddenly that game is unwatchable. AL is going to roll, but minus Murray, who even watches anymore?

It makes sense to skip. From the team perspective, bowl games are beneficial because you get 15 extra practices. The benefits of those practices aren't about the game but for the next season. If the player knows he won't be there next season, then it makes sense to let the next in line get a head start. The team benefits from the player skipping. The player benefits because it allows them to focus on training specific to combine events, which will help them improve their draft stock. The only ones that don't benefit are the fans, but fans are being just as selfish as the players they complain about skipping, if not moreso. The fans have no skin in the game though, which makes their outrage even more absurd.

The positive here is that it frees up practice and playing time for a player that is likely to be playing next year.

TexasRebel said:

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Where have the goalposts moved from and to?

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I just wish I had more "free" posts left to wade into this argument because it's awesome. We have your utopian system it's called the ivy leagues where they don't give athletic scholarships. Go watch ivy football sometime, I can tell you it's called football but it could not be more different than the thing FBS teams play. It sounds like this may come as a shock to you but many of the "Student Athletes" are using FBS football as a tryout for the NFL. The implied deal is that the kids risk their bodies for the love of the game and a crack at the NFL. For their effort we all pretend that we are "Paying" them with college scholarships. I'm not sure it's a 100% fair deal but it's really the only game in town if you aspire to play in the NFL.

To put it another way, I am a middle aged man with a degree from Texas A&M who is too cheap to subscribe to Texags, so yea if I had an opportunity to cash an NFL paycheck and I felt like a bowl game put that in jeopardy I probably would have skipped the stupid Gator bowl.

Another example that comes to mind is that Bill Gates left Harvard to pursue his dream of starting Microsoft. I don't think his legacy will be that of a quitter and college dropout.