Outside of fournette, name a true sophomore who was so impressive they could have afforded to take their junior year off.

TexasRebel said:

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They accepted an athletic scholarship to allow them to attend a university they wouldn't otherwise have had the means to attend.

They are going to the university to get an education and paying for it with talent.

That is an appropriate use of an athletic scholarship.

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If your point is that the mission of a university is to educate and has no business functioning as a defacto minor leagues for the NFL then you have a valid argument. But you are not saying that, you are saying that student athletes should be happy with the crumbs and be punished if they get a better offer. Punishing student athletes for leaving early is not only petty and vindictive but also likely illegal.

Here is something to consider when you crow about how we are offering a valuable education to student athletes. Major League Baseball values Kyler Murray at $5M dollars and the NFL is likely in that same range. But OU values him at tuition/room/board and a tiny stipend meanwhile. All the while he is adding tremendously more value to OU and will for years to come. The current system criminally undervalues the athletes and there is no other way to put it.

ghowe said:

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I didn't misunderstand your point.

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Then why do you keep asking me how are they different and why aren't regular season games considered meaningless exhibition games?

Paying the university back for an incomplete education a person never wanted in the first place isn't punishment.

I guess it also depends if you look at an education as worth its monetary face value. Hint: it's worth much more.

TexasRebel said:

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Paying the university back for an incomplete education a person never wanted in the first place isn't punishment.

I guess it also depends if you look at an education as worth its monetary face value. Hint: it's worth much more.

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They earned that scholarship on the field, why do they have to pay back something that has already been earned?

If you leave your job a year after starting it are you required to payback that year worth of salary?

If you're not fully vested.

TexasRebel said:

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If you're not fully vested.

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That's for stock options and retirement benefits...I'm talking about your wages which you have earned.

Your argument is flawed at best, students will never be required to payback a scholarship just because they didn't graduate.

If they do not play in the final game of the season with their team, then they have quit. They should have to clean out their locker and go. They should not be allowed to stand on the sideline with the team. As much as I hate LSU I am proud of Devin White. He said he wants to worry bout LSU from the first weekend to the last weekend. Then he will sit down with people he trusts to make the right decision. He is also chasing a championship. Being from his part of Louisiana I understand when he said in his first three years at North Webster High School they lost to their rival Haynesville, but in his senior year they beat Haynesville by 21.

There are already some that require graduation. My suitemate freshman year was on one that he'd've had to repay had he dropped below a 2.0. I've known of others over the years. Essentially loans that are paid back by either a degree or money, but classify as scholarships. They achieve their goal well, too. Kids that aren't serious students would be dumb to touch them.

Man this is a lot to unpack.

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Not for any reason. Only reasons enumerated in the contract. If "for any reason" is part of the contract the players are already in a hugely lopsided deal and probably should read/negotiate before signing.

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Wrong. This is only valid if there is an alternate viable route to the NFL. There is not. The current deal is take pennies on the dollar of kiss your dreams of the NFL goodbye.

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The purpose of an athletic scholarship is to reward athletic talent with an education. Originally to help talented individuals who desired to further their education, but would not otherwise have the means to attend college (we'll forget that part in this day & age).

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Wrong. For you and me sure, but for a 4-5 star CFB athlete the purpose of an athletic scholarship is preparation for the NFL. Why can't you understand this?

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Now, when talented individuals who have no desire to get an education (on their own dime or scholarship) earn athletic scholarships it harms society by robbing the opportunity at an education for someone who wants to be useful to the world. Once that person sheds their scholarship and displays no desire to be educated it ought to be repaid to be available for another potentially deserving individual.

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So your point is that CFB football players are robbing scholars of an education. We probably have too many people in college today not too few. There is literally not a single person in our country (And many others) who can honestly say he/she had no ability to go to college in the US. We have created so many ways around money and educational gaps that it's ridiculous.

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Things like injury or loss of talent would not require repayment, assuming the individual completes their education. The terms of remaining on scholarship would be up to the individual to settle with the university before signing.

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Super generous of you to provide a we destroyed your body but we won't bill you for tuition clause.

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If the goal is to just be a farm league, why require a faux education. Tying up resources that would otherwise be available to students that would care to use them.

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It's not a goal it's a fact.

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I'm not saying all student athletes aren't students. I'm saying there needs to be a push to get "student" athletes that are not students out of the way.

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A&M could achieve this goal without punishing players. Just not join the SEC, build a half a billion dollar stadium, and pay the coach $75M, and your desired results would follow straight away. Alternatively we could have put all this money in the dime box cancer fund per your suggestion below.

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What's more important? The next Heisman winner, who can't spell or conjugate, from Highland Park or the cure for cancer from a middle child in Dime Box?

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New Dime Box or Old Dime Box? We all know a cure for cancer is not coming out of old dime box let's be real here.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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I didn't misunderstand your point.

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Then why do you keep asking me how are they different and why aren't regular season games considered meaningless exhibition games?

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Because you didn't answer the question. BTW is sort of rhetorical, to the bigger question, that I think this post is asking, what is purpose of big time college football and who benefits.

The way to deal with this issue is to put a deadline on the decision to sit out such that it allows the bowl selection committees to consider the available rosters of the two teams who will meet in their bowl. When a team like WVU is left out or playing on Dec 23rd at 10am, because their 4th round talent QB is sitting out, then the AD, coaches, and teammates will have a little more leverage to persuade the kids to play.

ghowe said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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I didn't misunderstand your point.

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Then why do you keep asking me how are they different and why aren't regular season games considered meaningless exhibition games?

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Because you didn't answer the question. BTW is sort of rhetorical, to the bigger question, that I think this post is asking, what is purpose of big time college football and who benefits.

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The university obviously

TexasRebel said:

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There are already some that require graduation. My suitemate freshman year was on one that he'd've had to repay had he dropped below a 2.0. I've known of others over the years. Essentially loans that are paid back by either a degree or money, but classify as scholarships. They achieve their goal well, too. Kids that aren't serious students would be dumb to touch them.

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We are talking about athletic scholarships and if you can't tell the difference then there is no point to continue.

By the way, you are oddly passionate about this...why is it so important to you that football players shouldn't leave for the NFL before they graduate?

HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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I didn't misunderstand your point.

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Then why do you keep asking me how are they different and why aren't regular season games considered meaningless exhibition games?

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Because you didn't answer the question. BTW is sort of rhetorical, to the bigger question, that I think this post is asking, what is purpose of big time college football and who benefits.

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The university obviously

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The NCAA, the conferences, TV networks, sponsors, NFL, coaches, players...... And in what proportion? Is it equitable or just?

Epicaggie said:

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Ag4coal said:

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Outside of fournette, name a true sophomore who was so impressive they could have afforded to take their junior year off.

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Myles Garrett and Jadeveon Clowney

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That's probably fair. So we're up to 3. Even guys like saquon Barkley needed 3 years to impress the NFL. It's very rare.

Cowney had an unbelievably Soph. season and he had the size too. With respect to the draft I don't think his Jr season helped him at all. Still went first so it didn't hurt him. Myles on the other hand was helped by his Jr. season and need that time to put on size, could be mistaken but it seems like I recall that. Not sure he goes first without it. Still very likely a high pic.

ghowe said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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HoustonAg2106 said:

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ghowe said:

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I didn't misunderstand your point.

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Then why do you keep asking me how are they different and why aren't regular season games considered meaningless exhibition games?

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Because you didn't answer the question. BTW is sort of rhetorical, to the bigger question, that I think this post is asking, what is purpose of big time college football and who benefits.

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The university obviously

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The NCAA, the conferences, TV networks, sponsors, NFL, coaches, players...... And in what proportion? Is it equitable or just?

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I'm not sure I'm following what point you are trying to make.

I don't care if they stay or go, but if their goal in life is to be undereducated and play a game for money tying up university resources for no reason is a waste.

TexasRebel said:

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I don't care if they stay or go, but if their goal in life is to be undereducated and play a game for money tying up university resources for no reason is a waste.

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Ok so the problem is you just think college athletics are a waste of university resources, even though most everything universities are able to do is funded by college athletics...

Response to HoustonAg2106

This post started out by discussing should a player sit out or not, That led to a discussion about which games matter and which don't. Then it discussed the purpose and value of an athletic scholarship which introduced the topic of players being exploited or fairly compensated, which led to student athlete vs minor league for the NFL.... which brought us full circle to why the player might sit out.....

So I was just trying to move forward the conversation by more broadly restating the question.

ghowe said:

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Response to HoustonAg2106

This post started out by discussing should a player sit out or not, That led to a discussion about which games matter and which don't. Then it discussed the purpose and value of an athletic scholarship which introduced the topic of players being exploited or fairly compensated, which led to student athlete vs minor league for the NFL.... which brought us full circle to why the player might sit out.....

So I was just trying to move forward the conversation by more broadly restating the question.

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Ok well let's just say there are some athletes who play college athletics to get a degree and because it is their last chance to play the game they love because they are not good enough to play in the NFL (like 98% of them) while a very small percentage of athletes with NFL aspirations go to college because it is the only path to get to the NFL (if you have a problem with that then take it up with the NFL who allows no other route from high school to be a professional).

Meanwhile, everyone else is making millions.

https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx

TexasRebel said:

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https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx

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We get it, you're against college athletics...I just don't get why you spend so much time on a college fan board if you are so against what they do.

What? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Plenty of college athletes finish school. Some even finish while playing professionally.

I do not appreciate, however, the public face of any university being unable to properly conjugate the verb "be".

TexasRebel said:

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What? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Plenty of college athletes finish school. Some even finish while playing professionally.

I do not appreciate, however, the public face of any university being unable to properly conjugate the verb "be".

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I said this earlier, but I'll just copy and paste it again for you since you don't seem to understand how college football works and why it exists...

There are some athletes who play college athletics to get a degree and because it is their last chance to play the game they love because they are not good enough to play in the NFL (like 98% of them) while a very small percentage of athletes with NFL aspirations go to college because it is the only path to get to the NFL (if you have a problem with that then take it up with the NFL who allows no other route from high school to be a professional).

Your issue is with the NFL and the NCAA, but for some reason you're just taking it out on the players who are forced to use the system that is in place.

HoustonAg2106 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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There are already some that require graduation. My suitemate freshman year was on one that he'd've had to repay had he dropped below a 2.0. I've known of others over the years. Essentially loans that are paid back by either a degree or money, but classify as scholarships. They achieve their goal well, too. Kids that aren't serious students would be dumb to touch them.

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We are talking about athletic scholarships and if you can't tell the difference then there is no point to continue.

By the way, you are oddly passionate about this...why is it so important to you that football players shouldn't leave for the NFL before they graduate?

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He is passionate because he dug in on a bad argument and doesn't want to lose face. We call that ego.

Your first point is why I quit arguing with him.

Football and men's hoops make money at most FBS program. That money gets cannibalized by the other sports.

The solution for most is simple: cut money-losing sports to the extant title 9 allows. They just do not b/c of politics.

Agsuffering@bulaw said:

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Football and men's hoops make money at most FBS program. That money gets cannibalized by the other sports.

The solution for most is simple: cut money-losing sports to the extant title 9 allows. They just do not b/c of politics.

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Ok so then cut college baseball then right?

So simple

yall are absolutely ludicrous.

Why potentially ruin your future chance at earnings for a meaningless bowl game? If you were in these players shoes you would sit out and go to the game and wish your teammates the best of luck and not rethink your decision in the slightest.