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Why is A&M not an elite football program?

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JFFFOREVERRR
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11:59p, 9/5/17
Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.
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ABATTBQ11
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12:00a, 9/6/17
australopithecus robustus
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12:28a, 9/6/17
I'm sorry to say that I agree. Much of the Aggie culture, as admirable as it is, has carried over to the football program via TAMU leadership over the years. The mentality spawned from that culture is amazing in so many ways, but when translated to being top notch in NCAA football, the "loyalty to a fault" portion has held us back.

Additionally, the conservative nature of the leadership that the school has spawned has stunted the program as well. There is nothing conservative about the various elite programs nationwide. They are all aggressive in nature with bold, rapid fire decision making. The elite programs are at all out war while we sit on our hands for "the safe play, the appropriate time to act, etc.".

Our SEC decision was counter culture and bold, which was amazing. Perfect timing to work in tandem with JFF. Consequently, the program and town were electric. But now, alas, we are back to old behavior because we're sitting on our hands again.

We have the resources and facilties to be sure, now we just need the cojones by our leadership. We need balls of steel and the willingness to take calculated risks.
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2thFixinAg
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In reply to JFFFOREVERRR • 12:30a, 9/6/17
JFFFOREVERRR said:
Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.
i had the answer before i started reading. i got to the end and you stated it perfectly.
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JFFFOREVERRR
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In reply to australopithecus robustus • 12:34a, 9/6/17
australopithecus robustus said:
I'm sorry to say that I agree. Much of the Aggie culture, as admirable as it is, has carried over to the football program via TAMU leadership over the years. The mentality spawned from that culture is amazing in so many ways, but when translated to being top notch in NCAA football, the "loyalty to a fault" portion has held us back.

Additionally, the conservative nature of the leadership that the school has spawned has stunted the program as well. There is nothing conservative about the various elite programs nationwide. They are all aggressive in nature with bold, rapid fire decision making. The elite programs are at all out war while we sit on our hands for "the safe play, the appropriate time to act, etc.".

Our SEC decision was counter culture and bold, which was amazing. Perfect timing to work in tandem with JFF. Consequently, the program and town were electric. But now, alas, we are back to old behavior because we're sitting on our hands again.

We have the resources and facilties to be sure, now we just need the cojones by our leadership. We need balls of steel and the willingness to take calculated risks.


Bingo. You get it. You absolutely get it. I'm seeing more and more Aggies start to realize this. Maybe there's hope.
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Meximan
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12:35a, 9/6/17
Alabama doesn't rely on Texan players.
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aeon-ag
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In reply to JFFFOREVERRR • 12:40a, 9/6/17
JFFFOREVERRR said:
Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.
Only two coaches, Bryant and Sherrill established a wining attitude in the last 65 years that I remember. . So, I would say A&M will never be an elite athletic program.
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Trooper1016
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1:19a, 9/6/17
If we were the only school in Texas to get Texas high school talent we'd be fine. But we split with bama, TU, Baylor, tech, rice, uh, tcu, ou, okie lite, lsu, and ND. Bama compete with auburn and lsu. There is plenty of talent in Texas but they are fanned out to other institutions
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MidTnAg
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1:49a, 9/6/17
AG
Quote:
Only two coaches, Bryant and Sherrill established a wining attitude in the last 65 years that I remember. . So, I would say A&M will never be an elite athletic program.
I believe we will. We have everything except a strong winning tradition. We get enough good players (we have recruited much better than most). We just need another Jackie.

We are not an elite program but we have had some spurts of greatness such as in the 1990's under Slocum. In the 90's, we lost a little less than 3 games (2.8) a season! We have never loss 3 or less games a season since except when Johnny ran wild in 2012.

With all the improvements in facilities, support, enrollment, etc., I believed our main hindrance to our progression towards being an elite football program in this century was Coach Franchione. He actually sent us backwards.

Our biggest progression towards greatness in this century was Johnny Manziel. However, Sumlin was not capable of taking advantage of this enthusiastic energy spurt in Aggie football.

At least we have gone to bowl games in each of the last seven years.
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AggieDad74
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2:38a, 9/6/17
My take on it that the successful coaches had discipline over their players! Sumlin dies not!

He let's them bring sticks in the area to parade around with when they should be paying attention to the game and not to themselves! As a fan, I do not want to see the extracurricular marching around if someone with a band baton who is doing so to rub it in to the members of the other team from his perceived sanctity of his sideline! If players draw unsportsmanlike fouls for calling attention to themselves in the end zone, they're just trying to circumvent things by doing it on the sidelines.

Maybe I'm just too "old school," but Don't tell me that Coaches Bryant or Sherrill would have put up with those antics for two seconds! Parading around with a band majors mace is not football, it's only a feed for someone's narcissism.

If they have the need to March, then let them join the Corps. If they have the need to play football, let them do that between the white lines! Sumlin somehow doesn't understand that!

I cannot help but feel that Coaches Bryant and Sherrill would wholeheartedly agree with my sentiments!
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FCBlitz
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2:49a, 9/6/17
It would help if we a had a football coach at the helm vs a weak figurehead.
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WC94
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3:39a, 9/6/17
AG
The Aggie Code of Honor is to blame. Lying, cheating, and stealing are the blue print to success in Ncaa Football. Not that we don't try, we just aren't very good. Get ride of the code, and we soar to new heights
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TxAg727
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In reply to JFFFOREVERRR • 3:49a, 9/6/17
JFFFOREVERRR said:
Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.
If you value the results over the process you are destined for failure. 8-4 is not the issue. Its not finishing(drives, halves, games, seasons) that is the problem.
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RomanAg11
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5:06a, 9/6/17
oysterbayAG
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5:19a, 9/6/17
AG
Near the end of the interview yesterday with Trayveon Williams, there was a Freudian Slip : " they wanted it more than we did "
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Olaf
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6:06a, 9/6/17
AG
I will continue to be "loyal to fault" then. This doesn't mean I don't support a coaching change, it means I'm supporting these players 100% in the meantime at games, midnight yells, etc.

If it's not a Baylor situation, this team has my support no matter who's at the helm.

EDIT: grammar mistake
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CTP93
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6:20a, 9/6/17
AG
"Only two coaches, Bryant and Sherrill established a wining attitude in the last 65 years that I remember. . So, I would say A&M will never be an elite athletic program.L

Slocum won a game or two. Remember the entire 90's?

Remember the D we played then? We haven't been able to stop even a mediocre offense in years. It's cute that they still have Wrecking Crew chants. But A&M hasn't fielded a legit D in quite some time.
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Agnzona
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7:09a, 9/6/17
Op is dead on. Loyalty to mediocre is our weaknesses not a strength.
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2nd Generation Ag
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7:10a, 9/6/17
We were a small military school until the 1970's with no girls. If you start your comparisons to other schools beginning at that point we are pretty comparable. I think our overall record since the 1970s is similar to our rival Texas.
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Win At Life
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In reply to 2nd Generation Ag • 7:26a, 9/6/17
AG
mengland said:
We were a small military school until the 1970's with no girls. If you start your comparisons to other schools beginning at that point we are pretty comparable. I think our overall record since the 1970s is similar to our rival Texas.
Oh really, so since 1970 A&M has won 2 national championships?
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Love Gun
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In reply to Meximan • 7:42a, 9/6/17
Meximan said:
Alabama doesn't rely on Texan players.


"Hi"




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TxAg76
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7:46a, 9/6/17
AG
Too many meddling BMAs who think they know what's best, but really have no clue, acting like a pack of wombats who let their ego overthrow sound decision making.

We've never won it big, at least not in the modern era of how players/scholarships get handled since they were regulated, therefore we don't know what it takes, and wouldn't be able to recognize it if it were staring them in the face.

They (we) all wanna win. Big. And now. They just don't know what that means, and in the interim look like a bunch of monkeys trying to F a football.

Change that.
Florida's athletic program and accomplishments are impressive, going beyond football as well.
Replicate that.



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The Original AG 76
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8:08a, 9/6/17
AG
everyone above has hit on the reasons with amazing accuracy. Former sip coach David McWilliams told me almost 30 years ago that our most admirable quality is also our greatest impediment . Aggie loyalty is legendary but so very counterproductive with regard to sports. But I will offer another element to the mix...

Witness yesterdays presser with the millionaire paid employee. Di y'all hear any REAL driving hard questions ? Any follow up demands for answers when the dead man walking reverted to the typical coach babble ? Did any of y'all tune into the various " sports" show on the local media on Monday or Tues ???
Sure there was some VERY tepid comments from the talking heads about maybe the time has come, a little acknowledgment that maybe its all on the employee...all TEPID ! And it has been this way forever. NOW travel a few dozens of mile west or better yet venture across the Sabine.. I did 2 years ago and for various reasons drove around La for several days tuning into local sports stations and it was BRUTAL. Those folks were livid and really stirring up the masses. And this was a very successful winning coach with a Naty on his belt BUT not up to the very valid demands of the fan base. The coonass rabble was very involved as was the states media. I lived in OKC during the Blake era. HE was mercilessly hounded by the sports casters , radio, print and TV after ONLY 2 mediocre seasons... Go find a OSU or ND or Mich fan and ask them what it would be like in South Bend or Columbus or Bugtussell IF they were coached by a Sumlin or Fran or fill in the blank after only TWO or THREE seasons...We are up to SIX !!!!!!
Our so-called media is a lot more concerned about their beloved access, freebies and paybacks for the total asslicking fawning they slobber all over the paid millionaire employees up in the Bright Building...

AND BTW..all this pablum about BMA's is just plain uninformed IGNORANCE !! EVERY major school has the exact same involvement and myths about these mythical creatures. Sure they pony up tremendous sums and in return they all demand access and perks BUT this STUPIDITY of claiming that somehow OUR BMA's are different or dumber or more interfering than the Bama or OSU or sip.....BMA's is pathetically misdirected.
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terata
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8:12a, 9/6/17
AG
Loyalty is a virtue. But at some point, one must be realistic. Losing is a habit, A&M has developed it well.
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AGGies0311
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8:16a, 9/6/17
So why are people wanting to bring in Chad Morris? Not having a winning season at SMU....
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LakeCowboy
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8:18a, 9/6/17
There is no competing with Bama while Saban is in Tuscaloosa. "The Saban effect" has gotten a coach at every school fired except A&M and Missouri so far. He ran Urban Meyer out of the SEC, and got two other national championship winning coaches fired (Chizik, Miles) and ran off Mark Richt from Georgia who was 145-51 during his 15 years at UGA and 83-37 in the SEC. He's also about to get Gus Malzahn fired who won an SEC titled and came within a hair of winning a national title.


Saban is the biggest problem for every SEC program right now.
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DrZ
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8:23a, 9/6/17
AG
Elite programs....Alabama,Michigan,Ohio State.......to name a few
What would their response be to Chad Morris rumors coming to their schools?
They would burn the athletic department to the ground. We set our goals low and still don't reach them.

To quote an old Walt Kelly -POGO comic strip from 1972 (yes I am old)
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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Eagle78
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8:23a, 9/6/17
Why are we not elite? I have three words for you: It's the coach.


With A&M's facilities, resources, fan support and location the right coach would kill it here. Absolutely kill it. We just haven't hired that person.
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gnarley tuna
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 8:27a, 9/6/17
AGGies0311 said:
So why are people wanting to bring in Chad Morris? Not having a winning season at SMU....
Nobody that has any sense wants to bring in Chad Morris.
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halfastros81
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8:36a, 9/6/17
AG
Every Top cfb program has struggled from time to time. Bama has, tu has, OU has, Ohio State has, LSU has...... etc.etc. The difference is once it's obvious that a head coach doesn't have the juice they move on until they find the right fit .A&M does the same it just seems to take us about twice as long and the problem has been exacerbated by premature contract extensions when a guy has a bit of early success. OU went through a series of bad fits after Switzer and before they got to Stoops . Bama did the same after Stallings and before Saban including having a standing coach get hired away by of all places... Texas A & M. Man did we do them a favor or what?

To me what we are experiencing now with regard to the hfbc is similar to the groundswell that resulted in us finally shedding tu and moving to the SEC. I believe the number of donors that realize we can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results has now passed critical mass. Will A&M find the right fit with the next hire ? I don't know but to me it's obvious wer'e overdue for trying something different .
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sail33or
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8:37a, 9/6/17
AG
Well, I think I see a trend I like here.

The next coach "MUST" have the attributes of Jackie Sherrill and Bear Bryant.

Really. If you put those two men in the same room with all other A&M recent coaches, it would be obvious that there were 2 men in the room and the rest boys/ladies.

Those guys commanded respect and were all football. No rap music needed.

They were like my dad or my coaches I wanted to make them proud but when I didn't there was hell to pay

A&M coaches are set for life and the players dance at practices, celebrate plays, get jazzy new uniforms and generally just well lose. They need plain uniforms, no names and a butt whipping coach.

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AGGies0311
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In reply to gnarley tuna • 8:47a, 9/6/17
Check this page.... Someone even said he was an up and comer.....

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2809002
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fightinag
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8:58a, 9/6/17
FIRE SUMLIN TODAY

Get Bob Stoops or Gary Kubiak to finish the year but start doing a search for a long term coach tomorrow.
This season goes to the scrap pile (again) only difference is this time it didn't take 6 games
NEXT YEAR IS HERE.......again
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gnarley tuna
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In reply to AGGies0311 • 8:58a, 9/6/17
AGGies0311 said:
Check this page.... Someone even said he was an up and comer.....

https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2809002
In December 2011 Kevin Sumlin was an up and comer.
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95_Aggie
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9:07a, 9/6/17
AG
Quote:
With A&M's facilities, resources, fan support and location the right coach would kill it here. Absolutely kill it. We just haven't hired that person
Aggies have been saying that since 1940.
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