The Original AG 76 said:

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AGGies0311 said:

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RC's last year. Beat OU (#1) at Kyle Field

2000... beat #10 KState....

A lot of his losses at the end were to ranked (top 10) teams

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you are making my point....

SORRY for the thread derail..... I was simply refuting the notion that we " fire" coaches to often ..Didnt mean to get into the RC debate..waste of time ..this has been beaten to death..NOTHING will change my mind nor the RC lovers minds...

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Nobody said we fire coaches too often. I simply pointed out that we fire them just like everybody else.

The whole "Aggies love mediocrity" narrative is dumb. If it were that easy to find a great coach and win a national championship, everyone would be doing it.

Hi, Im Brett said:

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The Original AG 76 said:

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The sips have done it right since DKR... They did not accept mediocrity , they screwed up on about 3 hires, cut them QUICK and ended up with ole Yellow Teeth and a MNC or 2....

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Sure, if by "QUICK" you mean giving each as much or more time than we gave Fran & Sherm


Akers - 10 seasons
McWilliams - 5 seasons
Mackovic - 6 seasons

Fran - 5 seasons
Sherm - 4 seasons

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OK..
In Fred's first 7 years he had 2 -11 win, 1- 10 win, 3- 9 win. a couple of titles ..as soon as he had 3 so-so years they fired him.
Mac1 was fired the year after a 10 W title season , he was slated for firing after his 3rd year but then won 10..but he was FIRED the next.
Mac2 was fired ONE YEAR after 3 titles, top 25 finishes and a 10 W season , he had ONE losing year and was fired after that.
I am afraid that ANY one of those guys would probably still be HERE if they had the levels of success at Aggieland that they had at sip.

Ok, now I'm confused. Did they fire them QUICK, or hold on to them too long?

Because that looks pretty mediocre to me.

"You would be also IF you played his schedule ....thats the point. Show me the bowl wins ..show me the top 5 finishes, show me the W's over top 10 teams ( ranked at the end of the season) ...."

Hi, Im Brett said:

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Ok, now I'm confused. Did they fire them QUICK, or hold on to them too long?

Because that looks pretty mediocre to me.

"You would be also IF you played his schedule ....thats the point. Show me the bowl wins ..show me the top 5 finishes, show me the W's over top 10 teams ( ranked at the end of the season) ...."

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They were fired QUICK after showing signs of failure regardless of past success. I guess I'm not making my point. .......ONE year after a 10 W season, ONE year after 3 titles...THREE years after multiple 11, 10 and 9 W seasons.....ALL MUCH quicker than our history shows....
NEVER MIND.....

All good man. Akers was fine.

Both "macks" would have been gone after year 3 if held to today's standard, imo

..and if they were fired earlier, they probably don't end up with Mack Brown.

Coaches winning percentages: 1987-Present

tu: A&M:
.544 (5 Seasons) .642 ($herrill) 7 seasons
.592 (6 Seasons) .721 (Slocum). 13 seasons
.767 (Mack Brown 16 seasons .533 (5 Seasons)
.433 3 seasons .500 (4 Seasons)
.677 (Sumlin) 5 seasons

To isolate and identify the real problem only one question needs to be asked.


"Where would we be right now (Sept. 7, 2017) if we had pulled Saban from bama in 2012 instead of hiring Sumlin?"

I'm not saying we should have or even could have...this is a simple hypothetical exercise....a litmus test if you will.
Ask yourself this question and think realistically about the answer.

A&M's problems are 100% coaching. We missed the opportunity to get a proven, big name when we made the move to the SEC because Byrne decided to go coach shopping in the bargain bin. He thought he could pick out some kind of 'diamond in the rough'.

You see it on this very board. A coach who never once in 13 seasons won a first- or even second- tier bowl game and people say he should have never been fired. You don't become elite winning an Alamo bowl every 5-10 years and calling it a day.

If Dabo Sweeney walked through the front door of A&M would they know what to do with him?

Until our number 1 focus is being number 1, A&M never will be
We are far too distracted with ancillary items as priority.

Fightin Ag491 said:

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JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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Oh my goodness, dude. Please.

Some of y'all act like since A&M got a facilities upgrade a few years ago that every other school's facilities are completely prehistoric in comparison. That is not the case whatsoever.

Look, I think A&M fans are unique and passionate just as much as any other, but literally 30-40 schools if your including basketball schools have claims to the degree of "we're the best fans" or "we have the best alumni"

You honestly think that A&M's stadium is perceived better than Bama's just because it's slightly newer and a little bigger? You honestly think that alumni support is better when the school is literally in the middle of a situation where a BoR member publicly called out the head coach? You think the student body and fan support is better just because you think it is? Do you know how many Bama fans there are WORLDWIDE??

The reason A&M football isn't as good of a program as Alabama is because a.) almost all football programs aren't as good as Alabama, and b.) they win and we haven't. Plain and simple. End of story.

A&M hasn't won a national championship since 1939. No, that doesn't mean we should accept it for absolute truth and not strive for it. But that also means that Texas A&M has so very far to go before they're even in that discussion. I mean, you're talking about a program that has 1 10-win season in the past 18 years. What did you expect this guy to do when he showed up and everyone expected A&M to win 4-5 games in his first season in the SEC.

The choke was bad. There's no denying that it was mediocre-level football that lead to an 18-min collapse like that.

However, you can't sit here and bellow that A&M is mediocre just because they can't beat LSU or Bama, teams that most opponents can't beat. No one's being loyal to mediocrity. If Sumlin doesn't win enough games this year, he'll be released.

But seriously, if you really wonder why A&M isn't on the same footing as Bama, Ohio State, or Notre Dame... there are 78 years worth of reasons why

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You can't just say "those guys are better and always have been, plain and simple, that's it," and come to a solution. Some of us have actually looked at those "78 years worth of reasons" and we find it pretty damn obvious that A&M's problems are cultural, 'plain and simple.' If you don't see that by now, it's unlikely you're ever going to.

All this talk...OP had it right. We tolerate underachievement a standard deviation more than programs with the same resources.

Ironically, UCLA is the only other program with a comparable prospectus that tolerates such underachievement.

Put another way, there are approximately 25-30 "have" programs. They have a legitimate chance of winning the MNC under the status quo. A&M is one of the rare programs that went from being a "have not" to a "have." Many of our alums are still stuck with the perspective they had when they were 20 years old.


Put another way, programs that would have fired Sumlin after 2016:

USCw
Oregon (if Phil Knight wanted him gone, which he probably would have)

ND

Michigan
Ohio State
Notre Dame
Penn State
maybe Wisconsin/Nebraska/Mich St.

tu
ou

LSU
Bama
Auburn
UGA
UT
UGA
UF

FSU
probably Miami
maybe Clemson and alot of other ACC programs

Damn. Georgia would have fired Sumlin twice after 2016?

Agree with your premise. The A&M decision makers are too patient and much too generous with extensions. If you don't see clear progress each yr over 4 yrs towards serious Championship contention it's time to move on. Sumlin peaked in yr 1. He can consistently win 7-9 against a combination of OOC patsies, SEC bottom dwellers, and sometimes weakling minor bowl opponents but there's no reason to believe he can do more than that. You very seldom get more than you expect. Our expectations as Former Students should be higher than that.

It's really hard to pinpoint other than mediocre coaching. The only other thing is location - sure, Miami is more attractive than College Station. But Tuscaloosa is not. Norman is not. Columbus maybe barely better, but I've spent tons of time there and it's nothing to write home about. Baton Rouge? craphole, but close to New Orleans. College Station is close to Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio.

And none of that seems relevant because we recruit well. It's on the field that we under perform.

It's really mind boggling, and it extends to all the sports. To me the most shocking is that we have never won a natty in baseball - a regional sport for which we have tremendous support and have had historically extremely talented teams.

Bama competes regionally with ole miss, FSU, Georgia, Tennessee, auburn, Florida, LSU,. Bama's success Is having Saban. We sucked in the 90's and early 2000's. There's nothing wrong with A&M. Sumlin is not the answer. Simple as that. Get the right coach and staff, you become a Bama.

We aren't an elite program because we don't have the proper leadership to say no to the embarrassment.

Always hiring people that have ties to the school. This has proven ineffective rc was a defensive minded coach, and exciting as a safety manual. Sumlin and Sherman were the opposite offensive minded coaches but still one sided none the less. Fran was outside hire but good at nothing.

Its time to pony this wasted money on these 3 idiots Sumlin, Chavis, and Mazzone and go talk with Urban Meyer. To be the best you have to want to be the best not half ass it.

Who knows if he wants to leave but at least we screw OSU to having to pay him more money. If we are good as we think we are lets get someone on that level.

I don't know about yall but I am sick of halftime victories.

The FB team is a slightly above average team and has been for a long time. Slightly above average, not elite. Plain and simple.

Are we improving or treading water? That's the only question that needs asking.

He stomped Herman and Houston !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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It's 2025 and we are still 8-4...Sumlin, Fisher, Elko, (Enter Next Coach's Name Here). I don't know if we will ever get past just being average.

Thread necromancy is for rookie troll losers. Prove me wrong…

We are cursed. No other answer

That's stupid to think that

If that were the case then every program that doesn't have a consistent loyal fan base would succeed more often

I was banned not to long ago for stating that a known sip troll, who outed himself and his alter, was going to log in and start talking to himself.

That being the case I'm just going to start flagging these ****ty posts for [likely sip] trolling.

Alabama had 19 NCAA football championships to talk about

A&M had no chance to be an elite program until women were admitted here

australopithecus robustus said:

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I'm sorry to say that I agree. Much of the Aggie culture, as admirable as it is, has carried over to the football program via TAMU leadership over the years. The mentality spawned from that culture is amazing in so many ways, but when translated to being top notch in NCAA football, the "loyalty to a fault" portion has held us back.

Additionally, the conservative nature of the leadership that the school has spawned has stunted the program as well. There is nothing conservative about the various elite programs nationwide. They are all aggressive in nature with bold, rapid fire decision making. The elite programs are at all out war while we sit on our hands for "the safe play, the appropriate time to act, etc.".

Our SEC decision was counter culture and bold, which was amazing. Perfect timing to work in tandem with JFF. Consequently, the program and town were electric. But now, alas, we are back to old behavior because we're sitting on our hands again.

We have the resources and facilties to be sure, now we just need the cojones by our leadership. We need balls of steel and the willingness to take calculated risks.

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This! We need more and more to get on board with this thinking. As long as nothing changes... nothing else will change either. I'm tired of the kumbaya, everything is going to be ok, stuff

I want to win

No one wants to admit this

But the reason is A&M is not a fun place to live
We are not a party school we are an academic school
We are not in a city that people want to live (like Austin)
The weather isn't anything special
And so on and so on

Our program is what it is now because of our culture and money…… if not for that we would be no better than a Miss St

I say it's who we are as a culture that has kept us from being far worse
Don't abandon our culture because that's not what's going to have to change going forward
It's now and will forever be going forward be about paying players
If it takes OSU paying out 20million then it will take us 25million …… because of what I stated at the beginning

all things equal I would rather play in Austin or go to a party school if I'm an athlete unless my paycheck is bigger

Being a pipeline to the NFL could be a selling point which is where facilities and support staff matter. But not winning consistently puts the lie to that claim.

pointer74 said:

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No one wants to admit this

But the reason is A&M is not a fun place to live
We are not a party school we are an academic school
We are not in a city that people want to live (like Austin)
The weather isn't anything special
And so on and so on

Our program is what it is now because of our culture and money…… if not for that we would be no better than a Miss St

I say it's who we are as a culture that has kept us from being far worse
Don't abandon our culture because that's not what's going to have to change going forward
It's now and will forever be going forward be about paying players
If it takes OSU paying out 20million then it will take us 25million …… because of what I stated at the beginning

all things equal I would rather play in Austin or go to a party school if I'm an athlete unless my paycheck is bigger

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So Tuscaloosa is amazing?

pointer74 said:

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No one wants to admit this

But the reason is A&M is not a fun place to live
We are not a party school we are an academic school
We are not in a city that people want to live (like Austin)
The weather isn't anything special
And so on and so on

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Then how do you explain this:

Our recruiting class rankings in the SEC the past 13 years:

2025 - #8
2024 - #9
2023 - #6
2022 - #1
2021 - #4
2020 - #4
2019 - #3
2018 - #6
2017 - #6
2016 - #8
2015 - #6
2014 - #3
2013 - #5

And currently sitting at #2 for 2026.

Stupid [likely sip] troll necroing a thread.

And the stupid responses.

smh

AGinHI said:

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pointer74 said:

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No one wants to admit this

But the reason is A&M is not a fun place to live
We are not a party school we are an academic school
We are not in a city that people want to live (like Austin)
The weather isn't anything special
And so on and so on

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Then how do you explain this:

Our recruiting class rankings in the SEC the past 13 years:

2025 - #8
2024 - #9
2023 - #6
2022 - #1
2021 - #4
2020 - #4
2019 - #3
2018 - #6
2017 - #6
2016 - #8
2015 - #6
2014 - #3
2013 - #5

And currently sitting at #2 for 2026.

Stupid [likely sip] troll necroing a thread.

And the stupid responses.

smh

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Are you trying to point out consistent underperformance compared to talent? Dude, it's about putting guys in the NFL, not recruiting rankings.