And Disney will need folks who will pay for those bundled streaming options. And if we're talking in-house streaming, advertising (driven by actual viewership numbers) becomes even more paramount. (Which is why you need actual viewers).

And even when talking about your traditional bundling from a Dish Network package, the struggle has been for television companies to show they're driving enough of the package subscriptions to justify what they're requiring of the cable providers.

You can't get around the need for actual interest, and actual viewership.


Heck, Disney can add net subscriptions to their sports package, streaming or traditionally, but if they're not getting viewers to watch the _______ portion of that package, they're not going to be increasing their financial commitment there. They'll focus on the stuff that is driving the subscriptions.

And with so much under the Disney umbrella they'll have them. Never challenge the mouse.

Oklahoma is a diminishing return

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And with so much under the Disney umbrella they'll have them. Never challenge the mouse.

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ESPN's lost 10% of their paying subscriber base since 2013. You can certainly challenge the sporty mice.

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Sure they can. And they are paid by carriage fees in new markets. Is this new to you?

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Oklahoma wouldn't be a new market? That's...new.

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Oklahoma would not be a new market. The SEC already has the Texas TV markets, the Kansas City and St. Louis TV markets. The SECN already is in OKC and Tulsa markets.

OU doesn't bring one thing to the SEC that the SEC already has.

2011 it is that simple.

Now try to grow up and have some class.

Roll Tide

I recently moved. I subscribed to the local cable company because I got a good deal for 6 months. My 6 month deal just expired and I considered cutting the cord but there's just no way. I get good broadband but the streaming services only allow 1 stream at a time. That's a non-starter right there. Getting access to the programming I want is also sketchy at best.

I think streaming services still have a way to go yet.

And cable companies are starting to react...

Not a sports fan? Dish Network lets subscribers drop ESPN, cutting prices

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The SECN already is in OKC and Tulsa markets.

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Its in every market, just like the Longhorn Network is.

But as those old men in Austin learned real fast, though, simply making some available isn't what wins the game.

They also learned that only one school has a national brand.

I'll probably be moving within 6 months, fired DirecTV 3 weeks ago. Not worried at all, will be able to watch SECN just about anywhere I want, when I want.

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They also learned that only one school has a national brand.

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Ok? All "Not Notre Dames" are not equal...

2011,
You have argued, quite valiantly, the value that OU could bring to the SEC but you have yet to describe how the SEC could monetize that value. I think it is about time you did so.

2011,

Need to read the Moffett Nathanson report on continued cable dominance for the next decade.

Disney and the real big boys adapt. They realize that platforms evolve and they are going to in the forefront of protecting profitability. DISH is one of a myriad of nominal providers that are merely reacting in order protect their declining market share.

The SEC is fine.

OU not so much. They hitched their schooner to Bevo and are now paying a huge price.

They have no where to go. They will be anchored to the Big 12 with two new members that will not improve the reality that is the Big 12. Texas and OU and the little ten.

Money flows to power. The SEC, the ACC and the B1G all get it. The Big 12 is clueless.

OU is ****ed.

The SEC ain't coming to the rescue.

Roll Tide

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The SECN already is in OKC and Tulsa markets.

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Its in every market, just like the Longhorn Network is.

But as those old men in Austin learned real fast, though, simply making some available isn't what wins the game.

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So you admit Oklahoma offers nothing to the SEC that it already has. OU brings nothing to the table.

OU is ****ed.

Roll Tide

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2011,
You have argued, quite valiantly, the value that OU could bring to the SEC but you have yet to describe how the SEC could monetize that value. I think it is about time you did so.

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I think you can get a decent idea from what ABC/ESPN is paying for the Big 12, right now.

Its $20 million per school per year and we know that Oklahoma's individual value is much higher than that---obviously no one straight comes out and says that outside of Norman---but obviously one of the main drivers behind that is Oklahoma.

So, its well above $20 million in that conference, with that, well, lack of consistent good competition.

You've got their third tier rights sitting at like $6 or $7 million.


And everything probably goes up with the fully national broadcasting of the SEC Network. If the SEC expands its bowl game offering, there are a few extra bucks there, too.

Can I monetize it down to the dollar, no? But I think we can make some estimations that it is sitting up there pretty well.

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The SECN already is in OKC and Tulsa markets.

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Its in every market, just like the Longhorn Network is.

But as those old men in Austin learned real fast, though, simply making some available isn't what wins the game.

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So you admit Oklahoma offers nothing to the SEC that it already has. OU brings nothing to the table.

OU is ****ed.

Roll Tide

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No, not what I said.

The SEC Network is available already in Virginia and North Carolina, but you said you'd take them in a "New York minute."

Explain...

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The SECN already is in OKC and Tulsa markets.

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Its in every market, just like the Longhorn Network is.

But as those old men in Austin learned real fast, though, simply making some available isn't what wins the game.

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So you admit Oklahoma offers nothing to the SEC that it already has. OU brings nothing to the table.

OU is ****ed.

Roll Tide

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No, not what I said.

The SEC Network is available already in Virginia and North Carolina, but you said you'd take them in a "New York minute."

Explain...

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Johnny Tyler,

Don't need to. I know your scared.

It's moot about Virginia and North Carolina since the ACC has all its members under GOR. See, it's simple for a simple mind like yours.

OU is ****ed.

Thank you for admitting OU brings nothing to the table.

Roll Tide

OU's tier 3 value is a net negative for the conference as a whole, we have already been through that. They would have to make that up with tier 1. Thats not happening for 7 or 8 years.

This whole discussion is a moot point until then but I am not convinced the SEC will expand to 16 teams unless OU can bring another quality team with them.

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OU's tier 3 value is a net negative for the conference as a whole, we have already been through that. They would have to make that up with tier 1. Thats not happening for 7 or 8 years.

This whole discussion is a moot point until then but I am not convinced the SEC will expand to 16 teams unless OU can bring another quality team with them.

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The SEC doesn't need any additional schools.

The SEC already has the Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas TV markets.

Texas and OU bring nothing to the table that the SEC already has.

Texas ain't giving up the LHN and the Big 12 is the 5th place power conference since it doesn't have a conference network.

OU is ****ed.

Roll Tide

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IF every single household in Oklahoma got the SEC network it would add $1.4 million to the SEC in tier 3. Divide that by 16 (the office gets a share) and OU brings about $85k to each school. Tier 1 and 2 aren't renegotiated as we saw with A&M/Mizzou. And even if they did you've now got to get the contracts renogiated upwards of $30 million a year just to break even to give OU a current payout.

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SEC expansion seems unlikely, but the amount above is more than what Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and really, Alabama and Auburn can claim to bring under that calculation. So, not a great point.

Disband the SEC West? Add Oklahoma? Aggies to the championship?

Comparisons to existing members is pointless since you aren't kicking anyone out and your only options are to expand or stand pat.

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Comparisons to existing members is pointless since you aren't kicking anyone out and your only options are to expand or stand pat.

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You are missing the point.

One, in a conference which shares revenue equally, it actually is about seeing if you can raise the average payout. Comparisons to what you have are worthwhile.

Two, no one that has a clue thinks the SEC West is a drag on the financial prosperity of the SEC. Of course you don't kick them out. That's not it at all. Alabama is extremely valuable, even though if you treated them like you are treating the land thieves, they seem to be quite worthless. Of course Alabama is extremely valuable. Value is not defined by how large your state is. Not with national TV. Not with the internet.

The SEC should be getting paid a fraction of what its paid if it worked how you thought it did.

So, apply what makes these SEC teams from small (poor) states so valuable to potential expansion candidates rather than applying the double standards, and then figure out if you want particular school in the SEC or not.


It is moot, though, yes. Good night.

If OU is as valued as they're being made out to be why hasn't ESPN or FOX given the Big 12 a conference network. Take tu out of the picture that still gives you three universities in Texas and even with OU & KU still there is and never will be a Big 12 conference network. That should tell you how valuable the OU & KU brands are.

Do not believe they legally can do that.

What OU makes from their 3rd tier rights, which are regional and much curtailed, is very comparable to what each SEC school makes from the SEC Network.

So, OU seems to be able to hold its own, as much as folks hate to admit it.


SEC is probably happy where it is though. And would probably need another team of that kind of value to come along, too.

OU had their best chance to move to the SEC right after A&M became number 13, and the SEC was open to adding a 14th team...they chose to stay with t.u. In the Big XII, and Missouri took the 14th spot that likely could have been Oklahoma's if they had chosen to pursue it.

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What OU makes from their 3rd tier rights, which are regional and much curtailed, is very comparable to what each SEC school makes from the SEC Network.

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Um. No. That's a ridiculous statement.

Just want to sum some things up.

bdf tier1/2 is 20 mil/school. Claim is OU is more valuable than that. Ok, so maybe 25 mil. Their tier 3 rights are 6 mil. Now OU is at 31. SEC is believed to be distributing 40 mil from media right, so OU comes up short.

On the other side, OU add won't trigger an increase in SEC tier1/2, so value is 0 short term. They increase subscriber rates from out of footprint to in footprint, let's call that $1/month per subscriber for easy math. OK has a pop of <4mil, so let's go with about 1 mil households and maybe 600k subscribers. That is about 7 mil a year. Oh look, that is just a shade over where OUs tier 3 rights are currently valued. So adding OU to SEC adds <10 mil, compared to a payout of 40 mil. Just a bit short.

Let's revisit with the bdf GOR is up and cable channels have gone a la cart and everyone has cut the cord.

This is what everyone saying "OU to the SEC" doesn't get:

If OU is such a big TV draw on their own, why do their TV ratings lag far behind most everyone in the SEC?

Why is their annual marquee game relegated to an 11AM time slot on FS1?

"Oh but put them in the SEC and they'll have games with Alabama and LSU that get big ratings"

Yeah, but how does that translate into more money for the existing SEC schools?

It doesn't. The networks deal in subscriber footprints and they're not going to increase the SEC $ pie enough so that it increases the slice of everyone's pie.

"Oh but cord cutting!"

That isn't a big enough thing yet, and conference TV deals are based on cable subs. Until SEC's TV model changes, it doesn't matter what you're what-iffing for the future.

However, the biggest road block is that no one gets into the SEC without a unanimous or unanimous -1 vote. OU will never get that vote.

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"Oh but put them in the SEC and they'll have games with Alabama and LSU that get big ratings".

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This is the most telling notion. OU needs to be paired with the SEC to deliver big ratings. If the SEC is already driving the bus why do they need another passenger who is not bringing value?

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"Oh but put them in the SEC and they'll have games with Alabama and LSU that get big ratings".

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This is the most telling notion. OU needs to be paired with the SEC to deliver big ratings. If the SEC is already driving the bus why do they need another passenger who is not bringing value?

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Details, details.

OU is da bomb at 11:00 AM games. That's how many eyeballs they command.

9 Pages of the same people making the same argument both for and mostly against.

Ou is a founding member of the bdf. They should have to go down with the ship.

F them

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9 Pages of the same people making the same argument both for and mostly against.

Ou is a founding member of the bdf. They should have to go down with the ship.

F them

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yeah everything is neat and cool in utopia.


somebody (anybody) tell me the incentive for SEC to go to 16 teams......i'll wait......<crickets>


there are not 2 teams anywhere (that are really available and want to move) that bring enough to the table as far as revenue. period. not in the current model. until something changes this is a non starter.

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The SEC goes to 16 if Virginia and North Carolina become available. Why?

TV markets are better than OU (that the SEC already has.)

Moot point since the ACC has the conference locked up their own GOR.

OU brings nothing. OSU brings nothing. Why dilute conference shares?

Roll Tide

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Then the SEC should just go with TV markets? How about 32 losing teams in HIGH VALUE TV markets. Makes no freaking sense whatsoever. Bring on competition and screw the TV markets.