Ou is one of the reasons the bdf is unstable. They're always looking to get out of a conference they helped form.

Don't want to be in the same conference as them.

We don't want OU in the SEC, because that would take away our recruiting advantage. They are a football blue blood, we are not (yet). If you level the playing field with them, they will beat us in recruiting in our own state like they did for so many years until we joined the SEC.

I don't think any Aggie, myself included, wants OU in the SEC. However, this discussion isn't about that. This discussion is about whether or not the SEC, as a conference, would want/need OU in the event that conference expansion becomes inevitable.

youre arguing with a huge anti-sumlin, pro-Oklahoma wolf in sheeps clothing troll. It ain't worth the effort!

Respectfully,

The SEC doesn't need OU nor Kansas.

We're fine without them. Neither OU nor OSU nor Kansas offer anything that the SEC already has.

Sad fact is OU and the Big 12 need a place to land. Why extend a conference share to a school that doesn't bring anything to the table? Nothing, nada, zip.

Football championships under Bud or Barry? Nope. Different era, different time.

Maybe "classy" Aggies like yourself can petition the SEC to reduce Texas A&M conference annual stipend to OU. We both know you would be laughed as being what Texas A&M calls a 2%.

Do try to think as a member of the SEC conference rather than carrying OU's water.

Do try to be a class Aggie and not an ass.

Roll Tide

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B arguing with a huge anti-sumlin, pro-Oklahoma wolf in sheeps clothing troll. It ain't worth the effort!

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Thank you,

More than several PM's have advised that 2011 is a butt boy for OU and is truly a 2%.(Their words not mine.)

Pretty sad when Texas A&M supporters back a Bama supporter over an alum. Guess it shows that the remaining 98% are intelligent and smart.

Then again, we knew we had the correct school.

Roll Tide

I feel like the folks who call someone a "butt boy" are not the classy ones, but whatever.

As someone pointed out above, this isn't a discussion about personally wanting OU.

I never ever said I want OU.

If you or those who decides to PM you can't parse the difference out, then lets ease up on throwing out words like "intelligence."


People really care so much to PM you? Some of y'all need to loosen up.

Now you can wipe those sunglasses of your face and reasond to the argument or you can be classy and tell me I'm a "butt boy."

Any response to the lack of pro sports in Oklahoma?

Any response to their long term football and overall success in other sports the SEC values?

Any response to their TV ratings over the years?

Any response to their presence and support in DFW?


No? Classy ones stick to name calling?

OU will not be in the SEC. We can just end that conversation now.

here you go, butt boy. Authored by our venerable Bonfire1996:

http://texags.com/forums/6/topics/2770127

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How Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and most of all, Texas A&M killed the Big 12....

Nebraska gets credit for being a trailblazer. For kicking off realignment in all its glory. Colorado has drifted off into a pot smoking haze, but one day, they will decide to be good in football again, and they will have the resources to do it. Mizzou is the first school to bolt that confirmed what many of us degenerates on Old Rivalries already knew....it didn't really matter how good you were at football currently, it is what media markets you can deliver. By simply residing in Missouri, with access to both the Kansas City and St. Louis media markets, Mizzou was more valuable than Oklahoma. Blasphemy! That move set off a firestorm in the media, lead by ignorance, but slowly coming around to factual awareness. Rutgers and Maryland going to the B1G is the coup de gras of enlightenment for the media. Some still believe that certain, so called, blue bloods still hold value, but their enlightenment will have to wait.

As far as Texas A&M's role, it is still ongoing. Texas A&M is currently in the process of killing the Big 12. Why is it still ongoing? Because its financial success in the SEC will cause the Big 12 to eventually crumble. Texas cannot let A&M continue to beat their brains out in media revenue. They must react. OU thinks it can, but they are flailing their arms like a circus midget fighting a giant under a 1920s big top tent. Texas' options are nil with the albatross around their neck, but soon, that albatross will be removed, and Texas will bolt to what they hope is greener pastures. How did Texas A&M do it?

In 2009, our distribution from the Big 12 was under $10 Million. We leveraged the threat of walking in Summer 2010 into a $20 Million guarantee from the conference. During the 2010 athletic year, the people who are used to getting $20 Million under the then current distribution procedures of the Big 12, OU and Texas, attempted to shame us into accepting less money. The Bowtie promptly showed them the business end of his pimp hand. God Bless that man. They understood what a fiefdom, in conference provided then, and that is why they are panicking now. It was as if they knew what a doubling of our revenue might do to our historically revenue lagging Athletic Department. The serf would suddenly become upwardly mobile. If they understood what a doubling meant then, imagine their reaction when we quadruple it.

If Texas A&M indeed gets a $40 Million revenue distribution from the SEC, that is a ridiculous 400+% increase in conference revenue in seven years. For those of you that remember, in 1997-1999, Texas A&M embarked on an ambitious capital campaign to remove the Horseshoe from Kyle Field and replace it with the Zone. The cost of that expansion? $39.2 Million, all in. So here we are, seven years after the cash strapped doldrums of the Big 12, and we are adding $30 Million per year more than what we were used to. That is the equivalent of a major capital campaign, and major facility expansion, every single year in simple, operating cash flow. That is the fear of Oklahoma and Texas, who are mired in the mud of their own, underfunded capital improvements. Texas A&M can build a new weight room, nutrition center, refurb the entire football office facility, and redevelop Kyle Field for a cool half bill. Out of those projects, which ONE had the capital raise? You know the answer, the rest was done with operational cash flow and minor naming rights sales. While both Texas and OU struggle to fund any and all capital improvements, our financial flexibility is approaching the level of a Silicone Valley millennial *****bag billionaire.

In recent years, the Big 12 has tried to take their shlt sandwich, gussy it up with chipotle mayo, shredded lettuce, a couple of fancy ass pickles, black olives, etc. to make it look like each individual school being in control of their own tier three assets was such a better situation than any other conference. By pimping their revenue numbers, before anyone's conference networks matured, they thought they could buy some political capital with the media and hope that their bell cow teams would produce enough on the field to make their conference strong again. That political capital was all borrowed and the notes are past due. Texas still sucks, and OU got put in its place by a vastly superior and deeper Clemson team. It is readily apparent that the immediate future of College Football lies to the East of the Mississippi, and everyone West of it is simply producing scout team defense and offense for the true College Football Playoff contenders.

The argument in 2016 will be, "Does the B1G and SEC each deserve two spots in the CFP? Can Clemson sneak in above one of the SEC teams? Michigan and OSU will be a defacto playoff game, but is that fair if they are better than the other teams in the CFP?" The worst thing the Big 12 will have to endure is listening to the talking heads discuss how much Stanford belonged last year instead of OU, which will be paired with them acknowledging that the CFP playoff committee won't make the same mistake again in 2016. Hear that Big 12? The season hasn't even begun yet, and your conference is already exempt from the CFP. You had your chance, and you blew it. You thought you were talented because you only watched your conference. You had no perspective.

So what can the Big 12 do? I don't know, as Gerard Butler said in the movie 300 as he left Sparta for the last time, "What can you do?" He said it in a menacing manner as if to say, "you got nothing." See, OU spit the bit last year. They got pummeled in the 2nd half of their CFP game. Clemson had much better opponents several times in their regular season. The Big 12 was shown to be a conference of teams with no depth, talent that is trailing off with every passing year, and just flat doesn't belong. And now you have to do it at an annual cash flow deficit approaching $20 Million? Houston and Cincy are going to fix that?

Sorry folks, it's been over since the day we left. But today, you can finally admit it and write your eulogy.
104

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there is substantially more material where that came from that systematically dismantles any argument that OU to the SEC could ever be a good idea.

And as far as Sumlin, because I assume a classy gump such as yourself would judge a man based on his own words, I have never said I think Sumlin should be fired.

I do expect him to start to more regularly challenge for championships and reverse this slide we've seen otherwise yes, I think his job should be in real danger after another season to two or so.

Would you be happy and keep a coach if he was stuck at 3 or 4 conference wins a season and was 1-9 or something like that against the top two programs in your own division?

I guess as long as he was "classy" you would...?

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OU will not be in the SEC. We can just end that conversation now.

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This probably true. And something I have said several times.

But it's an interesting discussion nonetheless, I think. More so than much of what happens in this place.

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OU will not be in the SEC. We can just end that conversation now.

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This probably true. And something I have said several times.

But it's an interesting discussion nonetheless, I think. More so than much of what happens in this place.

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I don't think it is that interesting. I think logically expanding beyond 14 doesn't make sense. The SEC is a league built on branding, something that helps make that brand strong is having marquee matchups outside of conference play. Adding 2 more teams essentially kills that. College football would be like the NFL preseason without the big season opening matchups.

Blindey, I read that whole thing and looked back at it and still have no idea what I'm suppose to take out of it with regards to OU and the SEC.

Yes, the Big 12 is having a relatively struggle some time. Yes, many here love that it is struggling. I don't mind that they're struggling one bit, either. I wouldn't say that OU or Texas are financial disasters right now, but that seems irrelevant to whether OU would be good for the SEC.

Anyways, you'll have to pull out more because I don't know what that has to do with this discussion.

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OU will not be in the SEC. We can just end that conversation now.

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This probably true. And something I have said several times.

But it's an interesting discussion nonetheless, I think. More so than much of what happens in this place.

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I don't think it is that interesting. I think logically expanding beyond 14 doesn't make sense. The SEC is a league built on branding, something that helps make that brand strong is having marquee matchups outside of conference play. Adding 2 more teams essentially kills that. College football would be like the NFL preseason without the big season opening matchups.

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I love the big non conference games, too, but wouldn't there still be lots of good programs around the country to play in non-conference.

the point is why would they?

Ah, yes. It depends on how a 16 team conference handled scheduling.

I'm busy at the moment but go search the old rivalries board for Bonfire1996's posts on the subject. Pretty thoroughly lays out how OU (even alone) would cause all current sec members to lose money and how the "national brand" argument is serious nonsense. Basically, the argument has been laid out (and fully cited) establishing that OU will cost the conference and is a bad idea no matter how you argue it.

You lost me at "old rivalries board."

I'll click on the link, but I hope the above wasn't the highlight.

Yeah, the most interesting part was technoviking pleading in multiple posts that I make any appearance.

Well, the chick in the American flag bikini is probably the best part.

Oh well.

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And as far as Sumlin, because I assume a classy gump such as yourself would judge a man based on his own words, I have never said I think Sumlin should be fired.

I do expect him to start to more regularly challenge for championships and reverse this slide we've seen otherwise yes, I think his job should be in real danger after another season to two or so.

Would you be happy and keep a coach if he was stuck at 3 or 4 conference wins a season and was 1-9 or something like that against the top two programs in your own division?

I guess as long as he was "classy" you would...?

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When do you expect Sumlin's team to challenge for championships? This year? Next year? Year 7 of his contract? Year 10 of his contract?

2011,

Like Doc Holliday out of Tombstone, "You're still here?"

Your alums called you the butt boy for OU, not me.

Yet you still retort with the Gump insults. Very classy.

I'll simply state again,no Big 12 team brings nothing to the table that the SEC that we already have.

TV markets, we already have. 4 major TV markets in adding Texas A&M and Missouri.

Recruits, already have and getting more, thanks to adding Texas A&M and Missouri.

National Championships in football. Think the SEC has that covered. No thank you.for OU, Kansas or OSU.

No, OU or any Big 12 school doesn't bring anything to the table that benefits the SEC that we already have.

Don't need them. They need us.

Like the rest of the line from Tombstone, Doc Holliday tells you, Johnny Tyler, "You can go now!"

You being Johnny Tyler simply says "Thank you."

You can go now.

Roll Tide

"You may go now." But I'll stay. You're no Val Kilmer, and I'm curious how many times I can get you to keep repeating yourself.

And look what you did, turned me into a Sumlin apologist!

Scout, I don't know how many years exactly. I think he's had the chance and resources to put the tools in place, so soon.

If he shows marked improvement each of the next, I guess, 2 or so seasons I'll be happy and think that maybe he can put it together and win a championship. How I feel will depend on the amount of improvement and whether it seems sustainable or it's another bout of Johnny making something up on the run kind of improvement.

I'm not against Sumlin, I'm not fully behind him. Which means there is little room for me on Texags.

I apparently can't say OU attracts good TV ratings without being an OU fan, either.

Texags resembles national politics.

No,

You did that all on your own.

Sumlin leaves tomorrow, Texas A&M can upgrade simply because it is now a destination school with alums, facilities, recruiting and conference. All first rate.

Just be a classy Aggie not an Assie Aggie.

You also need to look at the 17 institutions that the Big 12 is interviewing.All mid major worthy. Shows just how desperate the Big 12 is.

OU allied with Texas. They made their bed, now sleep in it.

Roll Tide

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And as far as Sumlin, because I assume a classy gump such as yourself would judge a man based on his own words, I have never said I think Sumlin should be fired.

I do expect him to start to more regularly challenge for championships and reverse this slide we've seen otherwise yes, I think his job should be in real danger after another season to two or so.

Would you be happy and keep a coach if he was stuck at 3 or 4 conference wins a season and was 1-9 or something like that against the top two programs in your own division?

I guess as long as he was "classy" you would...?

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When do you expect Sumlin's team to challenge for championships? This year? Next year? Year 7 of his contract? Year 10 of his contract?

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well, he did in year 1. Then began revolving door of coaching changes on the staff.

Speaking of TV sets, how many TV sets do you think Mississippi and Arkansas bring to the SEC? Very little, as they are all under 3 mil, smaller than Oklahoma. And Alabama isn't that much larger. It about prestige, and prestigious teams. OU would bring even more prestige to the SEC.

How much or little the Big 12 is desperate has what to do with this?

And I've said this to Aggies before: Worry more about improving yourself and the conference and less about burying the Big 12.

Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand (I'm not expecting it will anytime soon) and you've addressed zero of them. So, I guess we both can go now.

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How much or little the Big 12 is desperate has what to do with this?

And I've said this to Aggies before: Worry more about improving yourself and the conference and less about burying the Big 12.

Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand (I'm not expecting it will anytime soon) and you've addressed zero of them. So, I guess we both can go now.

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I indecent history has shown that OU wouldn't be very successful inthe SEC. They would slot right in along side us 7-5 to 10-2 on occasion

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Speaking of TV sets, how many TV sets do you think Mississippi and Arkansas bring to the SEC? Very little, as they are all under 3 mil, smaller than Oklahoma. And Alabama isn't that much larger. It about prestige, and prestigious teams. OU would bring even more prestige to the SEC.

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It is the great irony of an Alambama guy arguing against OU the way he has, isn't it?

Alabama has a relatively small population, the SEC has another school in the state, and in all the states bordering Alabama.

If I'm understanding the argument correctly, then I'd move to kick out Alabama and sign up just about any school with a FBS team in North Carolina, Virginia, or just about any state in the country without an SEC team.

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Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand

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Not completely. You have pointed out that OU brings eyeballs but that's only relevant for tier 1 value. The tier 1 contracts don't expire until 2023-2024 I believe. Unless adding OU would increase the avg. subscriber rate for the SECN, then this discussion is really a moot point for the next 7-8 yrs isn't it?

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How much or little the Big 12 is desperate has what to do with this?

And I've said this to Aggies before: Worry more about improving yourself and the conference and less about burying the Big 12.

Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand (I'm not expecting it will anytime soon) and you've addressed zero of them. So, I guess we both can go now.

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I indecent history has shown that OU wouldn't be very successful inthe SEC. They would slot right in along side us 7-5 to 10-2 on occasion

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Well, they've won their game against the SEC three seasons in a row, now, including that 14 point victory over Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.

So, I don't know.

Obviously that game against us and Johnny was a beat down, but if we use the baseline comparison of when Missouri, A&M, and OU played in the same conference, OU seems the unquestionable leader of that pack.

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Speaking of TV sets, how many TV sets do you think Mississippi and Arkansas bring to the SEC? Very little, as they are all under 3 mil, smaller than Oklahoma. And Alabama isn't that much larger. It about prestige, and prestigious teams. OU would bring even more prestige to the SEC.

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It is the great irony of an Alambama guy arguing against OU the way he has, isn't it?

Alabama has a relatively small population, the SEC has another school in the state, and in all the states bordering Alabama.

If I'm understanding the argument correctly, then I'd move to kick out Alabama and sign up just about any school with a FBS team in North Carolina, Virginia, or just about any state in the country without an SEC team.

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If that argument was valid, yes. But I would NEVER break up the best conference in football for those reasons. You bring up a great point. Same goes for adding a perennial like OU; I see it nothing but making the SEC stronger. Imagine the draw games like OU/Alabama, LSU/OU, Ol' Miss//OU would bring week in week out..

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Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand

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Not completely. You have pointed out that OU brings eyeballs but that's only relevant for tier 1 value. The tier 1 contracts don't expire until 2023-2024 I believe. Unless adding OU would increase the avg. subscriber rate for the SECN, then this discussion is really a moot point for the next 7-8 yrs isn't it?

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I've said I'm not predicting OU to the SEC anytime soon as often as the Bammer guy has said "classy", so yeah, maybe. (I kid )

But I also pointed out how successful and big OU is into some sports that the SEC and its Network cover quite a bit.

So maybe it would. I don't know what the average subscriber rate is, but I think they're at least as well positioned as much of the SEC membership to have interested viewers.

Again, as several have pointed out, the SEC isn't exactly compromised of 14 schools from their own distinct heavily populated area.

It's a conference built on rabid local fan bases that show up on campus and spend and donate money. OU has that.

It's a conference built on national interest to bring folks to the TV. OU has that.

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Now, I've laid out reasons why I think OU could work of the SEC were to expand

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Not completely. You have pointed out that OU brings eyeballs but that's only relevant for tier 1 value. The tier 1 contracts don't expire until 2023-2024 I believe. Unless adding OU would increase the avg. subscriber rate for the SECN, then this discussion is really a moot point for the next 7-8 yrs isn't it?

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I've said I'm not predicting OU to the SEC anytime soon as often as the Bammer guy has said "classy", so yeah, maybe.

But I also pointed out how successful and big OU is into some sports that the SEC and its Network cover quite a bit.

So maybe it would. I don't know what the average subscriber rate is, but I think they're at least as well positioned as much of the SEC membership to have interested viewers.

Again, as several have pointed out, the SEC isn't exactly compromised of 14 schools from their own distinct heavily populated area.

It's a conference built on rabid local fan bases that show up on campus and spend and donate money. OU has that.

It's a conference built on national interest to bring folks to the TV. OU has that.

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This is correct.