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[This message has been edited by GI (edited 1/27/2010 4:38p).]

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they would break the outfit structure and move cadets to new units every year. But we all know that won't happen because of tradition



There isn't a single successful organization that would do something so horrendously stupid. The academies don't do this

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The zoomies I've talked to say that they're all changed up after their freshman year; complete new outfit with new classmates and upperclassmen

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[This message has been edited by GI (edited 1/27/2010 4:37p).]

I'm done on this topic. I'll only respond to correct minor innacuracies.

I have let my emotions get the best of me and, as a result, have jumped way outside my lane, and done things which are not professional in the slightest.

[This message has been edited by GI (edited 1/27/2010 10:24p).]

GI,

This isn't a professional environment. Some people can't handle jokes, comments, etc. Their problem. That's just how people work. Some are more thick skinned than others.

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The zoomies I've talked to say that they're all changed up after their freshman year; complete new outfit with new classmates and upperclassmen

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The USAFA 4 degrees (fish) start in one Squadron, but do a fruit basket turnover at the start of their 3 degree (phead) year. A very few end up shuffled to the squadron they began with, but almost all are randomly split to one of the other 39 squadrons.

So when each fall starts, the firstie and 2 degree classes (Sr & Jr) are the only continuity in the squadron, having been the previous year's sophs and juniors. The 3 degrees are a mix from other squadrons, and the 4 degrees are also new, obviously.

You're dealing with one branch there, though. 4 branches in the CoC, plus the D&C cadets.

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You're dealing with one branch there, though. 4 branches in the CoC, plus the D&C cadets.

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Not to split hairs, but NROTC encompasses both Navy and Marine programs. The Naval Academy commissions both Ensigns and 2nd Lieutenants. As I recall, Midshipman Dobbs (the Navy QB) will commission as a Marine.

@Ambres
Actually the problem is that most don't see that we can be both...GVA for example...there is no rule book that says we can't have grades and be "red ass" too. Actually, in my time in the corps I did a lot to try and prove it and would have succeeded on an outfit level if he wouldn't have had his manipulating hands in the situation...

To be clear though, you make a good point about the why. Without understanding intent and what is the ultimate goal none of it works and that is what most cadets miss about being red ass...though it was always my observation that much of that stemmed from a backlash effect caused by undue interferance...

I work with a couple of USNA grads currently. There is one thing that they all agree on, there was little to no fun in their college experience. They went to USNA for a purpose. That purpose was to get a degree and get into the Navy. All of their fun happened off campus, usually in their senior year, and involved tons of alcohol.

Its different for the Corps. Many people join the corps to be part of a tradition, not to join the military. Many who end up joing the military, do so after they have been in the corps for a while. Sure, there are a few dozen four year scholarship winners, but there are far more 3 or 2 year winners and contract cadets.

You cannot equate the academies to the corps. It will never work. We have to focus on what the corps is as it relates to A&M, not hold it up to the academies. As one friend of mine who is a West Point graduate quoted to me, "USMA is a place you are glad you went to; not a place you are glad you are going to."

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We have to focus on what the corps is as it relates to A&M, not hold it up to the academies

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+1

@tiger08
Amen

Don't bad mouth perry, he's trying to get A&M back to being Texas A&M and not t.u. east, like all the oustider yankees want to do.

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back to being Texas A&M

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and what exactly is that? an all-male military school with 3000 students?

[This message has been edited by AGnCS (edited 1/28/2010 9:39a).]

Yeah, he's definitely trying to get A&M to what it used to be.

[This message has been edited by HBCanine08 (edited 1/28/2010 10:02a).]

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(see 96 and 97 attrition rating.. horrid)

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Now maybe I remember this wrong, but the 96/97 retention rating was a result of starting the clock a little earlier than previously done. Chop started the clock from noon on the first day of FOW. The years prior it had been from the first march-in or after one full week of school whichever happened to be later.

Once they realized how many people punched during and right after FOW that's when FOW practices took a major shift.

Did anyone on here know Perry when he was in the corps?

Aeon,

When the next governor of Texas start trying to change A&M into something, will you be so supportive? Perry's meddling in A&M's affairs is setting a dangerous precendent. I for one, do not think it is in the Governor's job description to try to change the culture of any of the state universities.

If true, he wouldn't be the first one to try it.

As I recall, Ann Richards tried to ensure that the Board of Regents was stacked with individuals who would do her bidding as opposed to what was good for the school, including an attempt to revoke A&M's Senior Military College status.

I could be wrong though.

Happy that he's gone. Would be nice to have some one a little more appricative of Corps traditions and less liberal/reformer.

Maybe my memory is clouded but I don't remember having any type of FOW back in the 70s. We showed up on the Friday before classes started and as soon as all the parents had left, all hell broke loose and lasted all weekend. Learning how to fall in and march, getting fish haircuts at the MSC barbershop, learning how to put your uniform together, shine brass, shine shoes, etc. We lived with our squad, my Squad Leader lived across the hall and my ASL was next door. I remember spending many an evening sitting on my ASL's floor with the other fish in my squad, polishing shoes and brass and getting drilled on campusology.

DevilD, that sounds like some damn good good-bull

DevilD---as one of your Zips, I am glad you enjoyed those 1st few days.

culdeus,

quote:
Now maybe I remember this wrong, but the 96/97 retention rating was a result of starting the clock a little earlier than previously done. Chop started the clock from noon on the first day of FOW. The years prior it had been from the first march-in or after one full week of school whichever happened to be later.

Once they realized how many people punched during and right after FOW that's when FOW practices took a major shift.

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I was not on any staff, but I did talk to each cadet that left especially my junior year. When you go down from 32 freashmen to 8.. yes 8.. you have to do some hard evaluation of your program.

Looking back I can think of a lot of things we should have done differently but keep in mind. It felt like the Bulls under Hopegood deny everything that was rewarding due to risk of parents complaints. (I can't help think the FDT scadal may have played a factor on that)

Either way, under Hopegood leadership attrition was high and at the same time he took away many of the fun events that reward cadets for the hard training.

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Many people join the corps to be part of a tradition, not to join the military

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why?

I think class of 78 started FOW.

I work on campus with the Corps. GVA had his faults, but he knew that cadets needed to be better than the non-regs in leadership and grades or else the Corps might have been on the chopping block. Helicopter parents are also a major factor.

I don't think Loftin is Perry's puppet.

For those who say they will withhold their money from the Assn of Fmr Students--- we just had to get rid of an advisor because her salary was coming from AFS. When the funds get cut, the bigwigs cut the smallwigs so they can keep their six figure salaries. withholding your donations just hurts students and staff.

I've completely forgotten what got the FDT in so much trouble. I have a very hazy recollection of the whole deal. In a nutshell remind me what happened.

edit-never mind. google has a hell of a lot on this.

[This message has been edited by culdeus (edited 1/29/2010 9:43a).]

awesome12atm, when I joined the Corps in '73, I had no intention of going in the Army. I had known several cadets and listening to their stories made me want to be a part of the Corps. The Corps was, and sill is, a unique organization, the likes of which you will not find at any other major university. Many join for just that experience. It was only as I was getting close to the end of my sophomore year that I decided to pursue a commission in the Army.