I've yet to see anything firm confirming this myth besides the campusology.

But for the record, there are currently 57 American Flags flying over Kyle Field. If you count all the flags(Texas flags and Pennants) you end up with 61.

The campusology states There are 55 flags that fly over Kyle Field. It simply isnt true.

The campusology is still a recognized publication of Texas A&M, so it is a defacto official record.

And it states that the 55 Aggies killed in WW1 are memorialized by 55 flags in their honor at Kyle flown on game days. 61>55.

Splitting hairs? Obviously, but again - until the school officially denounces the belief that they print, then right or wrong it's what I'm going with. I wasn't there when all of this was decided, and like most of history, I have only but what is in front of me to rely on.

its that bury your head in the sand mentality that perpetuates stuff like this.

The school would also have you believe that the 12th Man started during the dixie classic with E.K. Gill, a fifth yell leader was added after the war, or that Horsefly Berryhill and Two Gun Herman from Sherman had something to do with the first midnight yell. They all make for nice stories, but they aren't accurate.



Or for a more recent campo, how about the Bonfire Tragedy?

Ask around and Im certain you will find plenty of people say it happened earlier than 2:42. But hey if the school says it, it must be true.

[This message has been edited by nai06 (edited 7/25/2011 8:25p).]

quote:

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At 2:40 hours, the forty-foot stack
of logs collapsed, falling generally in a southeasterly direction

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Department of Homeland Security Report


Or is that made up too?

Depends on who you believe. The campusology says 2:42. A lot of people who were on stack that night say 2:39 of 2:36. I believe the first 911 call was 2:42

But if you believe that report, then the campusology and school are wrong. Which is really the point I was trying to illustrate.

Actually, it looks like the campusology has changed.

The copy of the standard I have from 04 says 2:42. Looks like the current Standard says 2:41



Really just shows that the school/corps doesnt always get it right

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The school would also have you believe that the 12th Man started during the dixie classic with E.K. Gill

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So when did the 12th Man start? Once I receive your response I'll head into Wimberley, TX and tell the granddaughter of EK Gill and see what she says.

quote:

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So when did the 12th Man start? Once I receive your response I'll head into Wimberley, TX and tell the granddaughter of EK Gill and see what she says.

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The term 12th man predates the Dixie classic game by at least a few months. It was first used by a batt writer in December 1921 to describe the A&M student body. When the cadets would get up and yell, they effectively became the 12th man and the writer was giving credit to the student body as a whole. This was right after the tu game which ended in a 0-0 tie. It was a historic game, because up until that point, the sips had not scored at Kyle Field.

It was not until January of the following year during the Dixie Classic that Gill donned the uniform and stood on the sidelines. Which wasnt really a huge stretch since he was a fantastic player to begin with. He lettered in football baseball and basketball. In fact, at the time, Bible had chose to rest him for the upcoming basketball season which is why he wasnt playing.


So there you have it. Oh and I have included a scan of the the original Batt magazine if you would care to show it to Dr. Gill's granddaughter. I'd be interested to hear her thoughts.



[This message has been edited by nai06 (edited 7/26/2011 12:16a).]

thanks nai06: I'll be back in Wimberley next week.

"Twelfth Man" is a very common term for fans, and probably had been used somewhere in the United States by sportswriters sometime in the 52 years college football had been played. Heck, it had been played at A&M for 27 years, I'm sure someone had called the cadets The Twelfth Man sometime in those three decades.

But the 12th Man tradition began with E. King Gill standing on the sidelines, and morphed into the student body standing to show their willingness to be the 12th Man.

I really don't understand your point.

The point is that in regards to A&M, the term 12th Man originally had nothing to do with standing to showing your willingness to enter the game. The term 12th Man was used to describe the student body as a whole person who provided the psychological factor. It was later morphed into the meaning we use today.

The article I posted is the earliest usage that I could find at A&M. It possible that there is even earlier usage. As far as other school are concerned, no one has come forward to produce definitive proof of it starting elsehwere. Although, I once asked David Chapman and he seemed to think there is a possibility we borrowed it from the Naval Academy.

Still disagree with what I see as nit-picking. But I did find a small note on the Navy "12th Man" of 1918.

PDF File

quote:

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Ask around and Im certain you will find plenty of people say it happened earlier than 2:42. But hey if the school says it, it must be true.

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It's common knowledge that Stack fell prior to 2.42 am. Problem is that there was no way to tell the actual time it fell, and reports from those there were conflicting. The official time is recorded as when the initial 911 call came in.

This is not an uncommon practice, and you really are just looking for things to nit pick now.

You also seem to have a rather high disdain for the unique history of A&M, of which we all know that stories and events get morphed over time, as they do in any event cycle. I don't believe for a second that what is espoused in the Corps is 100% accurate 100% of the time - however, until there is solid and unambiguous documentation from the school disputing what has been taught over the last several decades, it really comes down to opinions of individuals hidden behind computer screens. He-said, she-said rarely gets anywhere.

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It was later morphed into the meaning we use today.

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And this is different than most of history in what manner?

So basically your argument is that we took a term that was possibly scattered in use elsewhere and made it into our own thing, then have built upon that term and belief over 90 years, but you still somehow think that we are inaccurate for doing so?

Crap, just about the enitre world must be guilty of inaccurate reporting in your eyes.

quote:

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It's common knowledge that Stack fell prior to 2.42 am. Problem is that there was no way to tell the actual time it fell, and reports from those there were conflicting. The official time is recorded as when the initial 911 call came in.

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check the DHS document that was posted. It says 2:40AM. School claims both 2:42 and 2:41 as the correct time. So which is it?

And as far as the flags are concerned, you are choosing to believe what you want despite evidence to the contrary. If the 55 flags myth is true, why arent there only 55 flags over kyle field? Heck why arent there only 55 American Flags over kyle field?

In regards to the 12th Man, I take issue with the fact that people assume the term 12th Man originated with Dr. Gill. Yes it morphed into what it is now, but people are quick to disregard the history behind it.


To say that I have disdain for A&M traditions is laughable. I've likely spent more time researching them in cushing then most. I do however like to know the full story behind the traditions and not accept something because an upperclassmen once told me how it was. By recording the full history of things like this, you preserve them. Otherwise they disappear

The Aggie ring is first worn with the crest facing yourself. This is a reminder of what you are working for. When you graduate, you turn the ring around to show the rest of the world what you had accomplished. It could be turned at Ring Dance by seniors that were graduating in the upcoming weeks. The rest turned theirs at graduation.
Another note: When I attended A&M (class of '81) we did not "Dunk" our rings. That would have been a dishonor to do so. When did Aggies start dunking their rings at the Chicken?

I was at the chicken after we got our rings & someone was looking at another Aggie's ring and dropped it in a pitcher of beer as a joke. Quite a fight followed!

cgdorn'81

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The tallest building between Dallas and Houston is the 16 story (239.5 feet) O&M building

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The Anadarko tower (30-story, 439 feet according to Wikipedia) in The Woodlands is the tallest building between Dallas and Houston I believe. Perhaps the O&M building was the tallest at one time, but that's apparently no longer the case.

There was once a plan to consoliate A&M with tu and have one big campus. Glad that didn't get the votes. This was around 1903 or so.

quote:

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The Anadarko tower (30-story, 439 feet according to Wikipedia) in The Woodlands is the tallest building between Dallas and Houston I believe. Perhaps the O&M building was the tallest at one time, but that's apparently no longer the case.

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I'm not sure if Tyler is technically "between Dallas and Houston" but it's got one taller than the O&M building as well....maybe two.

having a memorial in it does not make kyle a memorial schmelba. And if the campusologies are infallible, why do they have the collapse time wrong as nai pointed out? (btw the initial articles that came out that night had it right)

You attribute that to not getting things accurate but think the flags are despite having NO sources documenting when we stated flying them?

You've never been to one out dr chapmans lectures have you? A MASSIVE amount of our lore is not based in fact. Why on earth do you think recognizing that is disrespectful

[This message has been edited by it was buckley (edited 8/3/2011 10:48a).]

Bqbass - yes that time is incorrect. .you realize there are dozens of us on this forum that were there that night if not hundreds?

Cgi- dunking stated just after your time. Initially you just drank the pitcher instead of chugging it.

[This message has been edited by it was buckley (edited 8/3/2011 10:43a).]

you can still see a very faint bunny on the dome if you have good eyes. i saw it myself when I was at A&M between 04-08.

the Animal Industries Building is widely reported to be haunted.

also, isn't there some truth to the fact that when they built the evans library they didn't anticipate the weight of the books so the building is actually sinking?

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isn't there some truth to the fact that when they built the evans library they didn't anticipate the weight of the books so the building is actually sinking?

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No.

That's an Urban Legend told about every college library in the land.

http://www.snopes.com/college/halls/sinking.asp

well they definitely fed us that line on my campus tour during orientation!

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well they definitely fed us that line on my campus tour during orientation!

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Don't get me started on that. Took the campus tour with my daughter when she was in high school. Spent most of the tour whispering to her "that's wrong, I'll tell you later" and the other half looking at her and shaking my head no.

I didn't want to embarrass the student guide, but nearly lost it when he started telling a bullcrap story about Sully offering students "a penny for their thoughts".

I came across this in May 2011 behind Dorm 10. What is the story behind this grave?

Tip's Tomb. An outfit mascot. Was generally thought to be a canary. But I've been told lately that it is a rooster, since it belonged to the predecessor of today's Company C-2.

Dad was in C CO INF, but was gone by then.

Thanks, I assumed it was a dog.

The book "fish Jones and Me" talks about Tip. in the book the guy says Tip was a dog. If you haven't read the book, I would recommend it. Lots of good stories from the perspective of somebody who came from outside of Aggieland and worked in Corps Housing.

quote:

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the guy

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would be Dennis Davenport. A modern day legend of sorts in and around the Corps. He recently suffered a mild heart attack but seems to be recovering well. Had breakfast with him a few weeks ago and it's one of my most cherished memories since I graduated from A&M. His stories told in person are a blast to hear.

There's also this "fun fact" about A&M joining the SEC. You should research that one!

nai06, You shouuld know that the Corps is always capitalised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nai06, No where in that article does the writer mention the student body " standing up" as you said.

When they stoodup, that's when the 12th Man tradition started!

BQBass13,

Don't know how long Mr. Davenport was at A&M. I will tell you that from 1973-1977, the story was it was a parakeet. (Sorry, I think I said canary earlier) I have heard from some more recent C-2 guys that it was a rooster, but that is probably wishful thinking, going by their current nickname and C CO INF heritage.

Stories change and evolve. I think the best bet would be to seek out any C CO survivors from that area.

Stories also get invented. Ring Dunking and Pennies on Sully are an example of two "Old Army Been Around Since 1876" traditions that are less than 30 years old.