Regarding the throttle return spring, check that you transfered all the brackets from the old carb to the new carb. It is hard to see everything in the photos, but this part in the old pictures looks like a bracket that the spring connected to.
1968 F100 - My midlife crisis??
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Last: 9 hrs ago by 87IE
OK... I see your edits now, so this may not apply. But going on the theory that it is an electric choke, would this be the wire that powers it?Burdizzo said:
Congratulations. You have just done a minor upgrade which is replacing the manual choke with anelectrichot air choke. Therefore, you no longer have to hook the cable pull up to it because there is nowhere to hook it up.What you need to do now is find a 12v circuit that it hot only when the key is on and connect that to the terminal on the round, black, thing on the side of the carburetor. It is probably that bronze thing on the bottom that is partially obscured in one of the photos.As an interim step you could write it directly to the battery while trying to get this old motor running. Just remember to disconnect while the engine is not running. Very temporary measure. Don't leave it like that permanently.
Forget all that stuff about electric choke. This carb actually looks like a hot air choke which draws hot air across the exhaust manifold to operate the choke, and your manifold is probably not set up for that. Not to worry, you can address that later. For now, just use a piece of wire to hold the choke open to start it, and you should be able to convert to an electric choke later.
Also, block off any unconnected vacuum lines. It will make tuning much easier. At this juncture in your journey the only one you should really care about should run from just under the carb over to the distributor.
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
Here you go. It just says "automatic choke." A couple of the reviews mention an electric choke, FWIW.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
Amazon Link
If it helps, this is what that wire was connected to on the old carb.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
jaborch99 said:Here you go. It just says "automatic choke." A couple of the reviews mention an electric choke, FWIW.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
Amazon Link
It is hidden from view in your photos, but here is where you hook up the electric choke.
jaborch99 said:If it helps, this is what that wire was connected to on the old carb.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
THat looks like a high idle solenoid. When the engine is cold, it makes the engine idle a little faster by opening the throttle slightly. Once the engine gets warm, it retracts so the engine runs at a normal idle speed. I don't think you want to use that to run the electric choke.
Hmmmm.... Do I still need that?Burdizzo said:jaborch99 said:If it helps, this is what that wire was connected to on the old carb.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
THat looks like a high idle solenoid. When the engine is cold, it makes the engine idle a little faster by opening the throttle slightly. Once the engine gets warm, it retracts so the engine runs at a normal idle speed. I don't think you want to use that to run the electric choke.
Eventually, you will need it, so don't throw it away. You won't need it to get it up and running, though. Don't get too deep in the weeds with this detail. Stay focused on getting it to fire off and idling for now, and you can worry about that solenoid afterward
If you're pulling fuel from the tank on the truck, be prepared for that fuel filter that came with the carb to plug up in short order.
Buy a handful of these and have them on hand. You may want to put one inline now anyway.
Inline Fuel Filter
If you're pulling fuel from the tank on the truck, be prepared for that fuel filter that came with the carb to plug up in short order.
Buy a handful of these and have them on hand. You may want to put one inline now anyway.
Inline Fuel Filter
Burdizzo said:jaborch99 said:If it helps, this is what that wire was connected to on the old carb.Burdizzo said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but it might be. Use a volt meter to see if it hisot/not hot when the key is on or off. Based on what you showed previously this engine probably did not have an electric choke, but maybe you can use that to power it on the new carb.
Do you have a link to the carb you bought?
THat looks like a high idle solenoid. When the engine is cold, it makes the engine idle a little faster by opening the throttle slightly. Once the engine gets warm, it retracts so the engine runs at a normal idle speed. I don't think you want to use that to run the electric choke.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/784588-fast-idle-solenoid.html
This forum post describes an idle stop, so maybe the wire to it might actually work for the electric choke. Images look similar to what op posted.
jaborch99 said:OK... I see your edits now, so this may not apply. But going on the theory that it is an electric choke, would this be the wire that powers it?Burdizzo said:
Congratulations. You have just done a minor upgrade which is replacing the manual choke with anelectrichot air choke. Therefore, you no longer have to hook the cable pull up to it because there is nowhere to hook it up.What you need to do now is find a 12v circuit that it hot only when the key is on and connect that to the terminal on the round, black, thing on the side of the carburetor. It is probably that bronze thing on the bottom that is partially obscured in one of the photos.As an interim step you could write it directly to the battery while trying to get this old motor running. Just remember to disconnect while the engine is not running. Very temporary measure. Don't leave it like that permanently.
Forget all that stuff about electric choke. This carb actually looks like a hot air choke which draws hot air across the exhaust manifold to operate the choke, and your manifold is probably not set up for that. Not to worry, you can address that later. For now, just use a piece of wire to hold the choke open to start it, and you should be able to convert to an electric choke later.
Also, block off any unconnected vacuum lines. It will make tuning much easier. At this juncture in your journey the only one you should really care about should run from just under the carb over to the distributor.
Run the dirt off that wire. If it is orange, it will probably work for your purpose.
New carb electric choke connection had manual choke - The FORDification.com Forums https://www.fordification.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63969
OK. I found a good tutorial on how to wire a relay for an electric choke.
One more question: this wasn't on the old carb. Does it need to be plugged?
One more question: this wasn't on the old carb. Does it need to be plugged?
That is a vent for the fuel bowl. Since your vehicle is probably not equipped with a vapor recovery system, it should probably be capped.
Well today felt like a small victory! I installed a new starter solenoid and wired the electric choke. Turned the key and it actually turned over for the first time in probably 30 years! Unfortunately, it wouldn't fire, but it is progress nonetheless. I've already learned a TON just getting this far.
A few more questions:
1. To try to get it to fire, we poured some gas into the fuel bowl and stuck the fuel line into the bottom of a gas can (I don't trust the current contents of the gas tank). Nothing. To test the fuel pump, I disconnected the fuel line from the carb and turned the key to see if it would squirt any gas out that end as the engine was trying to start. It did not, so I assume that means my fuel pump is bad. However, since we put gas in the bowl, shouldn't it have tried to fire off? Seems like the fuel pump would keep it from being able to idle, but not from igniting that initial spark. Any ideas as to what the problem could be?
2. Based on Burdizzos comment on page 1, I'm leaning away from a mechanical fuel pump replacement. However, I need to know how to wire an electric pump. Any tips on that?
3. I capped the vent for the fuel bowl, as Burdizzo suggested, but I realized that there is another vent (??) on the carb that has nothing connected to it. Should it be capped, too?
4. I'm confused by the high idle solenoid. How do I reinstall it? I can easily reconnect the wire, but how does it serve any purpose if it is just connected to an electric wire. The pin at the end moves in and out, but I can't figure out if it is supposed to be tapping against something or what. There must be more to reinstalling it than just connecting the wire, right?
5. It probably doesn't matter at this point, but out of curiosity, what is this?
A few more questions:
1. To try to get it to fire, we poured some gas into the fuel bowl and stuck the fuel line into the bottom of a gas can (I don't trust the current contents of the gas tank). Nothing. To test the fuel pump, I disconnected the fuel line from the carb and turned the key to see if it would squirt any gas out that end as the engine was trying to start. It did not, so I assume that means my fuel pump is bad. However, since we put gas in the bowl, shouldn't it have tried to fire off? Seems like the fuel pump would keep it from being able to idle, but not from igniting that initial spark. Any ideas as to what the problem could be?
2. Based on Burdizzos comment on page 1, I'm leaning away from a mechanical fuel pump replacement. However, I need to know how to wire an electric pump. Any tips on that?
3. I capped the vent for the fuel bowl, as Burdizzo suggested, but I realized that there is another vent (??) on the carb that has nothing connected to it. Should it be capped, too?
4. I'm confused by the high idle solenoid. How do I reinstall it? I can easily reconnect the wire, but how does it serve any purpose if it is just connected to an electric wire. The pin at the end moves in and out, but I can't figure out if it is supposed to be tapping against something or what. There must be more to reinstalling it than just connecting the wire, right?
5. It probably doesn't matter at this point, but out of curiosity, what is this?
I'll have a look at mine once I get back home in a few days
I'll respond to (4) because that's the one I read about. It's called the throttle stop solenoid.
That solenoid is open constantly when the key is on, and then when you turn the key off it closes suddenly to slam the throttle body closed and prevent "dieseling." Dieseling is a where fuel/air mixture continues getting sucked into the engine after you cut the ignition and ignites on compression (like on a diesel engine) so the truck keeps running a bit after you turn the key off. It's bad for a few reasons and they added this solenoid to prevent it.
Newer carbs should have this feature built in instead of grafted on, your Chinese one is probably included.
Hold on to your part anyways though, you might decide one day to fix/tune the original carb and sounds like the solenoid was working.
That solenoid is open constantly when the key is on, and then when you turn the key off it closes suddenly to slam the throttle body closed and prevent "dieseling." Dieseling is a where fuel/air mixture continues getting sucked into the engine after you cut the ignition and ignites on compression (like on a diesel engine) so the truck keeps running a bit after you turn the key off. It's bad for a few reasons and they added this solenoid to prevent it.
Newer carbs should have this feature built in instead of grafted on, your Chinese one is probably included.
Hold on to your part anyways though, you might decide one day to fix/tune the original carb and sounds like the solenoid was working.
1. If the carburetor has fuel, and it does not try to cough, backfire, or fire while cranking, then it is time to move on to ignition. a) pull the plugs to see what condition they are in. They may be fouled and need cleaning. If they have a gap, check them for spark while someone cranks (hold bent end on the metal block to ground it while someone cranks and look for the spark. If they don't spark then b) start troubleshooting the ignition system. There are multiple failure points in a points ignition system - points, coil, rotor, distributor cap, wires, connections ,etc. Probably best to watch a YouTube video on that because it is too much for a Texags post. More than likely it is probably something simple. This is the lesson where you become familiar with a voltmeter.
2. If you're set on an electric fuel pump, set up a relay like you had planned for the electric choke, and use that to run the electric pump. Those pumps work best when they push fuel, so ultimately it should be near the tank. But in the interim you can move it around with whatever you are using now.
3. Yes, plug that port too.
4. See Chrundle's post. There is probably a bracket with the old carb that is held down by one of the carburetor bolts. More than likely it goes somewhere near the throttle linkage. As mentiioned previously save the part, but it is not mission critical at this point.
5. Looks like possibly the relay for the horn.
Regarding 4 and the big picture. Make sure you label any parts you save. My preferred method it to keep a boatload of ziplock bags, post-it notes, and sharpie on hand. I write down what it is (or where it came from) on the post-it and throw it in the bag with the parts. I don't write on the outside of the bag becasue grimey fingers can take off sharpie ink after a while. Keep all that stuff together in a parts bin. Otherwise, it is too easy to lose. Even if it is a broken part, you may still need it to source a replacement.
2. If you're set on an electric fuel pump, set up a relay like you had planned for the electric choke, and use that to run the electric pump. Those pumps work best when they push fuel, so ultimately it should be near the tank. But in the interim you can move it around with whatever you are using now.
3. Yes, plug that port too.
4. See Chrundle's post. There is probably a bracket with the old carb that is held down by one of the carburetor bolts. More than likely it goes somewhere near the throttle linkage. As mentiioned previously save the part, but it is not mission critical at this point.
5. Looks like possibly the relay for the horn.
Regarding 4 and the big picture. Make sure you label any parts you save. My preferred method it to keep a boatload of ziplock bags, post-it notes, and sharpie on hand. I write down what it is (or where it came from) on the post-it and throw it in the bag with the parts. I don't write on the outside of the bag becasue grimey fingers can take off sharpie ink after a while. Keep all that stuff together in a parts bin. Otherwise, it is too easy to lose. Even if it is a broken part, you may still need it to source a replacement.
I already replaced the coil and all the plugs and wires (although I didn't check the gap or check them for spark. I took the distributor cap off and it looked fairly clean in there, so I didn't do anything with the points.Burdizzo said:
1. If the carburetor has fuel, and it does not try to cough, backfire, or fire while cranking, then it is time to move on to ignition. a) pull the plugs to see what condition they are in. They may be fouled and need cleaning. If they have a gap, check them for spark while someone cranks (hold bent end on the metal block to ground it while someone cranks and look for the spark. If they don't spark then b) start troubleshooting the ignition system. There are multiple failure points in a points ignition system - points, coil, rotor, distributor cap, wires, connections ,etc. Probably best to watch a YouTube video on that because it is too much for a Texags post. More than likely it is probably something simple. This is the lesson where you become familiar with a voltmeter.
I chose an electric pump based on your earlier post saying that the mechanical ones are not made very well these days. I also found that the electric ones are cheaper (at least the lower end ones), which was a bonus.Burdizzo said:
2. If you're set on an electric fuel pump, set up a relay like you had planned for the electric choke, and use that to run the electric pump. Those pumps work best when they push fuel, so ultimately it should be near the tank. But in the interim you can move it around with whatever you are using now.
The tank is in the cab behind the seat, so I guess mounting it underneath is the only way to get really close to it. The original pump is under the hood in front of the distributor.
You are extremely helpful to this novice! I'm truly grateful.
If I had to guess, the points in the distributor probably need a little cleanup. That can be done easily without pulling the distributor or without even removing the points. It can usually be done with piece of fine grit sandpaper or nail file.
VGG has a couple of videos where he does this. I am pretty sure he did it on a bumpside F250 similar to yours. If I have time later I will see if i can find it
I am glad you are able to use what I share. I REALLY want you to be successful.
Here is the video I was thinking of. This truck has effectively the same engine as yours. I thought he cleaned up the points in this video, but he actually replaced them and did not go into a lot of detail. I think there are some others where he does the sandpaper trick, though
VGG has a couple of videos where he does this. I am pretty sure he did it on a bumpside F250 similar to yours. If I have time later I will see if i can find it
I am glad you are able to use what I share. I REALLY want you to be successful.
Here is the video I was thinking of. This truck has effectively the same engine as yours. I thought he cleaned up the points in this video, but he actually replaced them and did not go into a lot of detail. I think there are some others where he does the sandpaper trick, though
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Also try a healthy shot of ether in the carb and see if it fires. Mechanical fuel pumps can take a while to prime. Pourig some fuel down the line into it can help, but if it fires a few times the carb should be able to pull gas out of a jar right next to it. Sounds like your fuel is before the pump, try taking the pump out of the equation
Burdizzo said:
Regarding 4 and the big picture. Make sure you label any parts you save. My preferred method it to keep a boatload of ziplock bags, post-it notes, and sharpie on hand. I write down what it is (or where it came from) on the post-it and throw it in the bag with the parts. I don't write on the outside of the bag becasue grimey fingers can take off sharpie ink after a while. Keep all that stuff together in a parts bin. Otherwise, it is too easy to lose. Even if it is a broken part, you may still need it to source a replacement.
^^^^^^this
The clutter is worth avoiding the feeling of dread when you realize you need one small widget that Ford hasn't made in 50 years and you threw it away or lost it on a work bench.
From page 1.. get an in-line spark plug testerQuote:
I already replaced the coil and all the plugs and wires (although I didn't check the gap or check them for spark. I took the distributor cap off and it looked fairly clean in there, so I didn't do anything with the points.
I think DIY projects are a perfect opportunity to rationalize the purchase of cool tools that you would not otherwise buy because, hey, you're saving a lot of money doing it yourself.
OP, have you considered buying one of those laser rust cleaning machine?
OP, have you considered buying one of those laser rust cleaning machine?
87IE said:From page 1.. get an in-line spark plug testerQuote:
I already replaced the coil and all the plugs and wires (although I didn't check the gap or check them for spark. I took the distributor cap off and it looked fairly clean in there, so I didn't do anything with the points.
To each his own. I won't begrudge a man for buying a tool. I have contemplated buying one of those sparkle testers, but decided to pass. I have enough tools that only get used once every five years. Drawer space in my toolbox has become valuable, and I find I get more use from a remote start switch. I can use a remote start switch and a rag to hold the spark plug against a grounded engine and achieve the same test.
But you will get no judgment from me if you have one.
That's awesome! I wonder if those can be rented.P.H. Dexippus said:
I think DIY projects are a perfect opportunity to rationalize the purchase of cool tools that you would not otherwise buy because, hey, you're saving a lot of money doing it yourself.
OP, have you considered buying one of those laser rust cleaning machine?
The circled item is a relay for the horn. Fire ants loved to congregate in the one on my '70 model. Ihad to pry the top off and clean it out occasionally.
I was really confident that I'd get the thing started today, but it looks doubtful. I can't get a spark and I don't know why. Brand new ignition coil, wires, plugs, and starter solenoid. Cleaned the points using sandpaper. It turns over, so the starter is good. Just no spark.
jaborch99 said:
I was really confident that I'd get the thing started today, but it looks doubtful. I can't get a spark and I don't know why. Brand new ignition coil, wires, plugs, and starter solenoid. Cleaned the points using sandpaper. It turns over, so the starter is good. Just no spark.
Next thing I would do is check the voltage at the coil. I don't recall if Fords that age use a ballast resistor. I think they do. With the key off the voltage at the positive terminal of the coil should be 0v WIth the key on, it should be about 8 volts. With the key in the start position it should be +12v.
Pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is turning while someone cranks the engine.jaborch99 said:
I was really confident that I'd get the thing started today, but it looks doubtful. I can't get a spark and I don't know why. Brand new ignition coil, wires, plugs, and starter solenoid. Cleaned the points using sandpaper. It turns over, so the starter is good. Just no spark.
You can pull the condenser to check for a broken wire or just throw a new one on along with the points. The gap should be .035 according to google...
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