aggiemike02 said:

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how did you pull "the data for your neighborhood"?

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When you go into your details, you'll see a box next to your square footage that says "Neighborhood." Write that number down.

Then, go to "Property Search" --> "Real Property Advanced" and then type in the neighborhood number (14th down). Click search, and it should bring up all of the houses in that neighborhood number. From there, just highlight the info, copy, and paste into a .xls.

Then I filter for houses on the streets in my section (pretty easy for me because it's < 10 streets). We are in an entirely different section from the other houses/streets it brings up, and our houses are older and zoned to different schools, so I look at only the houses in my section (98 total).

After that, it's filtering out the community owned stuff that has no value and working the math.

Solid plan.

The only thing I would add is that it's a good idea to pull land values out of the equation when comparing properties since you'll be protesting the improvement valuations.

Might not matter if the lot sizes are all homogeneous but that's not usually the case.

In older neighborhoods, you also need to factor in HCAD"s grading as far as renovation and quality scores.

Spending time getting the market value lowered when its unlikely to be lowered below the appraised value has a time and effort value somewhere between "waste of time" and "you must spare no efforts" but where exactly that is is not clear.

Lets say we have a home appraised at market value of $400k and an appraised on $300k. $400k is not used to calculate any tax bill generated for the current year, its just a number. In that case expending any effort lowering it to $350k will not save you a dime at the end of the year. Then next year the appraisal district is going to reappraise your home again. There is no law or rules or anything that says just because they lower it to $350k last year from $400k, that they cannot just raise it to $450k the next year anyway (except obscure and useless evidentiary rules in the case where the value was determined by the review board in the previous year, but it doesnt have any teeth and is a very low burden)

So why fight the market value if there's no hope of getting it below appraised? Well, every single year is an opportunity to change their appraisal. If there is an error or you can convince them that the characteristics of your property are wrong, you can get them to change like the CDU or grade, or a square footage issue, or if you get them to build in an adjustment because you back up to a major street, or something else that gets put in their appraisal and perpetuates itself every year. If you get them to actually change something like that, it could lower your value long term, because that new characteristic will get used every time they recalculate the market value. It is worth it to protest and try to get them to change something like this every year because every year is a new bite at the apple to try to get them to change something that may have a long term effect.

Now if they refuse to change anything, and you fight it all the way to the board and the board gives you a little bit off that doesnt come from a change made by the appraisal district, or if you use an equal and uniform argument and the board agrees, I think getting those type of reductions is worthless and your market value will just bounce back up the next year. The CAD is just going to reappraise the property again next year with the same characteristics.. Lets say you win at the review board and they reduce it to $380k. Then next years values remain pretty flat. They would likely just raise you back to $400k even though the rest of the neighborhood stayed flat, because that's still what their models say your house with the characteristics they have assigned should be worth in comparison to the rest of the houses in the neighborhood. So wasting all that time really got you nothing, you got a $20k reduction that saved you no taxes and it went back up the next year.

My advice is protest every year, if you think you're unlikely to get down to your appraised, focus on the fact that you know more about your property than they do. Bring bad pictures, get roof repair estimates, find some way to say that your house is the worst on the street and get them to lower you from an B+ to a B or from Excellent or Very Good. That B or Very Good will save you money in future years even if it doesnt this year because it will continue getting used. If the board just gives you a reduction based on E&U, likely they will just reappraise you back up to B+ and Excellent level next year regardless of what happened the previous year.

2022 value : $725k
House next door sold for $735k last June. (EXACT same floorplan/ lot size, etc.)

2023 value : $875k.


I assume this should be an open/shut case in my favor, but.....

Any idea how I can protest land value? My rental property has one of the larger lots in the neighborhood and that's how they got me. I'd be happy to sell HCAD this rental if they really think it's worth that much.

TXTransplant said:

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You should get the same info from that "Same Street Name" tab I mentioned. It's just not obvious that tab is even a clickable link. It's not highlighted like other links in the record are.

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Sorry for the long post......
Using this method, I looked at every property on my street and 2 streets North/South, 1/2 mile West / 1 mile East. That kept it primarily in my neighborhood and similar homes. I also removed anything shown as "pending", lot value only, outliers (really high or really low), owned by HOA, etc.

My home in Maplewood (77096):

• 2,236 SF
• Market Value: $224.40 / SF
• Appraised Value: $206.31 / SF

Properties in area described above (essentially Maplewood and Marilyn Estates)

• 620 Properties
• Average size: 2,366 SF
• Average Market Value: $176.53 / SF
• Average Appraised Value: $171.38 / SF

Properties ONLY in my immediate neighborhood (Maplewood)

• 241 Properties
• Average size: 2,380 SF
• Average Market Value: $164.89 / SF
• Average Appraised Value: $159.82 / SF
• This is probably more applicable because home values tend to jump once going to Marilyn Estates. Approx 2/3 of the properties in the first calculation are in Marilyn Estates.

I don't have data on recent sales. I'm not sure how to easily get that.

When comparing my home's values to only those in my neighborhood, on average, I'm 36% higher on market value and 29% higher on appraised value. I would say my home is average to slightly above average compared to the neighborhood. It was built in the 1960's and had a modest interior renovation done in 2015, which is not unlike the average home around me. I've been inside dozens of homes in my neighborhood and mine isn't any nicer than any of the recently renovated ones.

I've had a company protest on my behalf since I bought the house in 2017. Every year, they've been able to get the market value down to the appraised value, which I guess helps, but they've never been successful in getting my appraised value lowered. The data suggests that lowering the appraised value would be pretty easy, but they haven't been able to and I've never protested on my own and don't fully understand the process.

AggieT said:

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Quote:

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I've never protested on my own and don't fully understand the process.

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That part is easy. You take your rock solid evidence in and present it to three absolute idiots that obviously hate your ass. The HCAD rep will lie his ass off and try to confuse the entire situation. Only takes about 10 minutes once you start.

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I'm probably going to jinx myself, but I've always started and been successful with the online protest. It's accessible through your HCAD record. I've never had to escalate it to the in person at the home office.

TXTransplant said:

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AggieT said:

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Quote:

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I've never protested on my own and don't fully understand the process.

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That part is easy. You take your rock solid evidence in and present it to three absolute idiots that obviously hate your ass. The HCAD rep will lie his ass off and try to confuse the entire situation. Only takes about 10 minutes once you start.

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I'm probably going to jinx myself, but I've always started and been successful with the online protest. It's accessible through your HCAD record. I've never had to escalate it to the in person at the home office.

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I think they track that stuff. Every year you take an ISettle it seems they offer just a little less.

I had only had to do the online part until the last 2 years. Their offers were a joke compared to the comps. Both times I was more successful with the formal than I would have expected to be with the ISettle.

You may be right about that. I first time I did isettle, I got exactly what I asked for. Then the couple of times after that, I got an offer that was higher, but still not bad, considering the alternative of going in person.

Last year I got what I asked for, but I had a very good comp argument, and I didn't ask for "too much". I just asked them to match the comp.

My argument this year is going to be that I don't deserve any increase over last year. Not sure that will work, though, because the one and only comp is from February, and I'm pretty sure they have some sort of "market correction factor" that they are applying.

I am going to throw in an argument based on the market reports Red Pear has been posting on the real estate forum. HCAD's own numbers say sales prices are down compared to last year. That's for the whole area, though, and not specific to our 'hood.

Inventory is so low that I might could find an idiot to purchase my house at HCAD's market value.

If they are using any other comps to determine my value, they they are outside the area that HCAD says constitutes my neighborhood and/or they have a pool.

AgLA06 said:

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TXTransplant said:

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AggieT said:

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Quote:

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I've never protested on my own and don't fully understand the process.

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That part is easy. You take your rock solid evidence in and present it to three absolute idiots that obviously hate your ass. The HCAD rep will lie his ass off and try to confuse the entire situation. Only takes about 10 minutes once you start.

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I'm probably going to jinx myself, but I've always started and been successful with the online protest. It's accessible through your HCAD record. I've never had to escalate it to the in person at the home office.

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I think they track that stuff. Every year you take an ISettle it seems they offer just a little less.

I had only had to do the online part until the last 2 years. Their offers were a joke compared to the comps. Both times I was more successful with the formal than I would have expected to be with the ISettle.

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I've done the in person once and it was everything I could do not to cause a scene......

I walk in the room and it's a dude behind a computer and a few "unbiased" individuals who seem to have been there all day and were chatting with the guy.

He runs through his comps, which are terrible, extra bathroom vs. bedroom, etc.

I run through my comps, he immediately stops me....Oh, this is Jubally. It's a business that solely makes money based on dropping home values.....We have a little back and forth, then I continue. He stops me, well I actually don't have HCAD values as they aren't set for this year so I can't confirm any of this. I ask don't I have the right to protest based on unequal appraisal (or whatever is was called). Yes, you do, but I can't confirm it for the panel.

At the end, he reminds the panel my numbers could be made up and were submitted by a company paid on getting values down.....

I'll just pay Mc Gibblets to not have to deal with those dip****s again for the rest of my life

I've used Jubally every year. I had a similar bad experience about 5 years ago.

But that is the exact reason I take their information and put it into my old excel and reformat it. I purposely don't take the Jubally report and do everything I can to camouflage that I'm using their info. It has worked much better that way.

The ironic part is HCAD is literally making up the appraisal numbers. The irony with his statements there is something.

TexAg2001 said:

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TXTransplant said:

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You should get the same info from that "Same Street Name" tab I mentioned. It's just not obvious that tab is even a clickable link. It's not highlighted like other links in the record are.

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Sorry for the long post......
Using this method, I looked at every property on my street and 2 streets North/South, 1/2 mile West / 1 mile East. That kept it primarily in my neighborhood and similar homes. I also removed anything shown as "pending", lot value only, outliers (really high or really low), owned by HOA, etc.

My home in Maplewood (77096):

• 2,236 SF
• Market Value: $224.40 / SF
• Appraised Value: $206.31 / SF

Properties in area described above (essentially Maplewood and Marilyn Estates)

• 620 Properties
• Average size: 2,366 SF
• Average Market Value: $176.53 / SF
• Average Appraised Value: $171.38 / SF

Properties ONLY in my immediate neighborhood (Maplewood)

• 241 Properties
• Average size: 2,380 SF
• Average Market Value: $164.89 / SF
• Average Appraised Value: $159.82 / SF
• This is probably more applicable because home values tend to jump once going to Marilyn Estates. Approx 2/3 of the properties in the first calculation are in Marilyn Estates.

I don't have data on recent sales. I'm not sure how to easily get that.

When comparing my home's values to only those in my neighborhood, on average, I'm 36% higher on market value and 29% higher on appraised value. I would say my home is average to slightly above average compared to the neighborhood. It was built in the 1960's and had a modest interior renovation done in 2015, which is not unlike the average home around me. I've been inside dozens of homes in my neighborhood and mine isn't any nicer than any of the recently renovated ones.

I've had a company protest on my behalf since I bought the house in 2017. Every year, they've been able to get the market value down to the appraised value, which I guess helps, but they've never been successful in getting my appraised value lowered. The data suggests that lowering the appraised value would be pretty easy, but they haven't been able to and I've never protested on my own and don't fully understand the process.

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As JJxvi stated more eloquently than I, you really have two choices to effectively argue unequal appraisal:

1.)

• find properties in your "neighborhood" that share the same (or better) characteristics (highlighted below). Things like pools can also add value. Things like foundation repair "should" deduct value.

• Back out the land value
• Identify properties in your "neighborhood" that have a lower "improved price/square" foot and share similar/better characteristics/grades.

Here is an example if comps I pulled for my area. As you can see, I won't have much of an argument using this method, but should be able to get it down $15K or so. I won't bother doing this in person but in the past, I've had good luck using iSettle with these arguments.




2.) This is the method JJxvi mentioned. You'll have to argue that one of those "characteristics/grades" I highlighted above is incorrect for your house. I've done this before, but it wasn't easy. Once they code that new grade in the system, it will pay dividends as long as you own your home.

You're always going to have an easier time using the first method.

Will HCAD always listen? Clearly not...but you should get a lot further with them using their own grading systems, rather than just averaging all the area values and saying you should be at or below that.

The grade / physical condition has been big for me the last couple of years. I'm graded incorrectly. They have my house as remodeled and that's not the case. However, HCAD will not change it. I just have to argue against it as one of my points every year.

I made this argument last year during my informal and it didn't go anywhere. I argued that an improvement made 20+ years ago should not be considered an improvement now. The lady just kept repeating that a house built in the 50's has to have had improvements made. I countered that the original wood floors that have been beat to hell and need significant work should reduce the grade, not increase it. I also tried to say that a fully gutted and remodeled house from a year ago is not the same improvement as two bathrooms that were remodeled before 9/11. Same response.

Forum Troll said:

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Every year I read this thread and every year I wonder when the voters will get rid of this joke of a system and just go to a simple income tax.

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I wonder when someone is going to file a class action lawsuit.

Forum Troll said:

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Every year I read this thread and every year I wonder when the voters will get rid of this joke of a system and just go to a simple income tax.

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Like in Illinois, which pays more in property tax and income tax?

Agreed. Property taxes/tax rates aren't the problem. My biggest tax entity is the school district, and they've actually lowered the tax rate a couple of times since I've lived here. As has the MUD and The Woodlands Township.

The problem is the CAD and out of control, inconsistent, and factually unsupported market value assessments. Someone needs to hold the CAD accountable.

I'd love to see the valuations of CAD, County, and City employees in comparison to their neighbors and recent sales comps.

This reassessment every year is a waste of resources, especially when you factor in all the protesting. It's like Groundhog Day March to May of every year.

Reevaluate property values every three or five years, and use some sort of average. That would take into account dips and spikes in the market.

AgLA06 said:

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I've used Jubally every year. I had a similar bad experience about 5 years ago.

But that is the exact reason I take their information and put it into my old excel and reformat it. I purposely don't take the Jubally report and do everything I can to camouflage that I'm using their info. It has worked much better that way.

The ironic part is HCAD is literally making up the appraisal numbers. The irony with his statements there is something.

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Our numbers are legit, not fabricated in the least.

We have considered allowing our users to select their report template to help camouflage. At the end of the day though, they would eventually pick up on it. Your approach is best.

Definitely not questioning your data. If anything they're too complex and accurate compared to what 99% of people bring.

Quote:

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I'd love to see the valuations of CAD, County, and City employees in comparison to their neighbors and recent sales comps.

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I can assure you my status as a government employee never had any effect on my valuations.

I was referring more to elected officials who the average resident would recognize by name.

I can confirm its not just HCAD going crazy with valuations. FBCAD just gave me a 26% boost over in the southwest side of Katy. it is now valued 53% higher than it was at the start of 2021

Forum Troll said:

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Every year I read this thread and every year I wonder when the voters will get rid of this joke of a system and just go to a simple income tax.

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Well, your wonderful legislators are currently debating just putting in an appraisal cap on real property. Basically instead of everyone getting 10% limit on homesteads, they are trying to put in a 5% limit on all real property.

This will shift the tax burden from commercial to residential. Commercial property that becomes capped will no longer have real estate transfers, as people will just start purchasing the corporation that owns the property instead. SO all commercial properties everywhere will be capped lower than market in consistently rising markets. Homeowners who buy new house will bear majority of the burden as they will always be reset to market value. Homeowners in general will start to bear a heavier burden and tax rates will likely start going back up to compensate for values remaining more flat as governments still maintain annual budget increases.

So everyone could be about to start paying more and the system could be about to become totally smashed instead of just broken in terms of fairness, and meanwhile homeowners no longer get whine about appraisals because its just 5% every year in perpetuity, but their tax bills are going to start going up more than that as tax rates increase to compensate for the valuation taken off the tax roll with caps, and new homeowners take it up the ass as the only ones paying full value.

Not sure the loss of accelerated depreciation that would be gained by a transfer of ownership would be offset by the lower property taxes. In most commercial leases the property tax burden is borne by the tenant to some extent. Plus, the bill is high enough to justify a lawsuit if you don't get a fair appraisal and those are generally pretty successful in my experience.

JJxvi said:

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Forum Troll said:

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Every year I read this thread and every year I wonder when the voters will get rid of this joke of a system and just go to a simple income tax.

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Well, your wonderful legislators are currently debating just putting in an appraisal cap on real property. Basically instead of everyone getting 10% limit on homesteads, they are trying to put in a 5% limit on all real property.

This will shift the tax burden from commercial to residential. Commercial property that becomes capped will no longer have real estate transfers, as people will just start purchasing the corporation that owns the property instead. SO all commercial properties everywhere will be capped lower than market in consistently rising markets. Homeowners who buy new house will bear majority of the burden as they will always be reset to market value. Homeowners in general will start to bear a heavier burden and tax rates will likely start going back up to compensate for values remaining more flat as governments still maintain annual budget increases.

So everyone could be about to start paying more and the system could be about to become totally smashed instead of just broken in terms of fairness, and meanwhile homeowners no longer get whine about appraisals because its just 5% every year in perpetuity, but their tax bills are going to start going up more than that as tax rates increase to compensate for the valuation taken off the tax roll with caps, and new homeowners take it up the ass as the only ones paying full value.

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Not that I have any real confidence in legislators to fix that loophole but it could easily be written such that even if it was just the transfer of corporate ownership vs. real estate transfer then that transaction would be taxed as such to have no real change.

What if like its a partnership and some partners change but others dont?

Same with Montgomery county. Won't even take me to dinner first.

Diggity said:

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2.) This is the method JJxvi mentioned. You'll have to argue that one of those "characteristics/grades" I highlighted above is incorrect for your house. I've done this before, but it wasn't easy. Once they code that new grade in the system, it will pay dividends as long as you own your home.

You're always going to have an easier time using the first method.

Will HCAD always listen? Clearly not...but you should get a lot further with them using their own grading systems, rather than just averaging all the area values and saying you should be at or below that.

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I believe this is exactly my issue. This is what mine says compared to the things you highlighted:

Remodeled: 2014
Quality: Good
Cond / Desi / Util: Excellent
Physical Condition: Excellent
Cost and Design: Total

Based off what I know from living in the house, I believe mine should be more in line with yours. I think the problem I have in fighting it now is that it's been that way since the renovation happened almost 10 years ago, which was 3 or 4 years before I bought the house. I guess the previous owner's just went with it and didn't push back.

I couldn't argue much the first couple years of owning the house because HCAD's appraisals were in line with what I paid for it. Like many others, the last 2 years are when the big increases occured. Not fighting to get those characteristics changed may be coming back to bite me.