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HCAD 2023

50,037 Views | 436 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by aTm_bomb
Diggity
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AG
that stinks. Seems pretty open and shut based on how you described it.

I'm guessing you're going in front of the ARB now?

Mr.Ackar07
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Diggity said:

that stinks. Seems pretty open and shut based on how you described it.

I'm guessing you're going in front of the ARB now?


I am. I also have 10 other single story sales comps from within the last 12 months in my section of the subdivision and the other adjoining Harris County section of my subdivision. The average price per square foot on all of those houses, including an adjustment for the land values, multiplied by my square footage comes out to a market value within a few thousand of my neighbor's sales price.

I didn't think it would be that difficult of an ask to have them value my 3 bedroom/2 bathroom single story 2,250sqft house at the same selling price as my neighbor's 3 bedroom/2.5 bathroom single story 2,250 sqft house.
aTm2004
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AG
Quote:

I didn't think it would be that difficult of an ask to have them value my 3 bedroom/2 bathroom single story 2,250sqft house at the same selling price as my neighbor's 3 bedroom/2.5 bathroom single story 2,250 sqft house.
File5
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AG
Logged into HCAD to see if they posted their offer, and wow!

Wondering if I just got lucky:
Annual Appraisal Notice Market Value: $575k
My suggested Market value referring to specific comps: $536k
iSettle Market value offer: $510k

Seems like they left money on the table, but I'm not complaining!

The Flash has nothing on me compared to how fast I clicked that Accept button.
AgLA06
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AG
If you look back and see what those comps you used to get that first number may be now that they've settled / changed, you might have left some on the table taking their offer.

Regardless, congrats on getting it down that far.
File5
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AG
Good point, I had only looked at sale prices from a realtor so I just checked on the appraisals
The comps I used were as follows, Sold Price (Current HCAD Market Value):
$490 ($592k), $537 ($580k), and $550 ($510).

Maybe it's that one that is driving it by itself. Either way, I've had the house 3 years and so far it's gone up ~10% total in HCAD market value since, so I think it's a win in the current environment.
TXTransplant
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Had my ARB hearing today.

Original Market - $524064
iSettle offer - $473279
My proposed value - $435240
HCAD Appraiser's value - $453000

So, my new market value is $453000. My whole goal was to get under $200/sq ft, and this is better than my iSettle offer, so I call this a win.

The HCAD appraiser used the exact same sales comps I did but seems to have used the highest $/sq ft sales price to get to my value (I used an average).

The meetings are capped at 15 min. Everyone talks VERY fast. I think I got lucky and got a seemingly competent appraiser because, even though I showed the exact same sales comps as the appraiser did, they pretty much immediately accepted his value. They didn't give my value any serious consideration. Not sure what would have happened if we had been farther apart in value - probably the homeowner just gets screwed.

Recommendation: If your iSettle offer is something you can tolerate until you can protest again next year, take it. The board hearing isn't worth the extra time and effort.
YellAg2004
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AG
Congrats on the "win". Now that you've had the pleasure of going through that experience, you've come to the same conclusion as the rest of us - that it's better to take whatever you can get from iSettle or your informal hearing rather than waste your time going before the "impartial" ARB.

Now, as a prize for you putting in all your time and effort, you can sit back and relax until they try and bend you over again next year.
TXTransplant
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I don't agree that it's better to take *whatever* you get from iSettle.

My iSettle was bad, so I don't regret going through the process. I'm lucky I got an appraiser who agreed, though, because nothing I did influenced the outcome. My case simply got reviewed by another set of eyes.

Had HCAD simply offered me $453k via iSettle, I would have accepted it, no question. That's what boggles my mind. They had ALL the same information a few weeks ago, and instead we had to go through this farce. It's a waste of everyone's time and resources.

I added my recommendation after reading the post above that said someone "left money on the table" by accepting an iSettle offer that was less than what they proposed. There is absolutely no reason to not accept an iSettle offer that is less than what you asked for/what the sales comps say. I'm certain you will lose that fight if you decline and take it to the board.

You have to go into this process with a range/max value that you are willing to accept in mind and be willing to compromise to a degree.

As far as doing it again next year goes, that's a given. I think this was my 5th or 6th protest, and the first one where I didn't accept iSettle. Hopefully, HCAD will dial back their efforts to screw homeowners to more reasonable levels.
AgLA06
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AG
You had to go through that because so many people never protest. It's worth it to them to unfairly value the property by a lot.
CDUB98
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AG
Had our informal yesterday.

Got 32,000 knocked off, which is better than the 5,000 iSettle wanted to give.

We still believe our value is lower, but the fat lady wouldn't budge. HCAD is killing us. At least the new market value will keep them from maxxing out the 10% next year...maybe?
combat wombat™
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AG
My mom is the legal owner of the townhouse my sister lives in. No homestead exemption. They hiked up the value as high as they legally could. She did her research and protested. There's not a single property in her complex valued as high as hers. There are only 5-6 others in the "nearby" comps valued as high… there are like 150 valued lower.HCAD refused to budge.

It's a pos townhouse but for some inexplicable reason they valued hers higher than anything else. It's infuriating.
jaggiemaggie
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AG
Does anyone know what the Appr O/R Factor is? I noticed that majority have a 1.0 factor but there are a couple of comps that have a 0.85.


I feel like I'm screwed since I'm getting hammered on my rental's land value because of the lot size. Would be more than happy to sell HCAd this house for what they think appraised it for.
slavy06
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Not sure if this is something new, but the appraiser I had during the informal said my sales comps weren't valid because they weren't located in the HCAD neighborhood number. All comps I selected mind you were within half a mile of my home and still in the same neighborhood, but not in the specific HCAD "neighborhood". I've never had this issue previously which is why I ask.

I wasn't prepared for that and knew at that point all of my other arguments would go in her one ear and out the other.
Sazerac
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AG
I used comps just on my specific street and they dismissed them all for their own comps. It's such arbitrary bull**** !
slavy06
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AG
Well I'm looking forward to the unbiased ARB listening to my arguments (sarcasm). Guess it's the luck of the draw because the 2 previous appraisers I've had during informal actually listened to my argument and agreed albeit didn't come all the way down to my proposed value.

This one just kept deferring to HCAD comps and their "adjustment" being the most accurate.
CDUB98
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AG
HCAD is nothing more than an organized crime syndicate.
CDUB98
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AG
Quote:

This one just kept deferring to HCAD comps and their "adjustment" being the most accurate.
Just for grins, was this a largish (wide) black woman with longish, chipped fingernails?

That line sounds exactly like the one we kept getting.
slavy06
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AG
It was a virtual visit but she had a weird name that started with an "M". I had the early appointment so I imagine she was even less enthused to speak with me than normal.

I guess the overall laziness and refusal to consider something outside what the HCAD computers spit out is what frustrates me the most and will force me to just pay someone to deal with it moving forward.
htxag09
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I feel like they flat out lie to get their point across. They told me my comps weren't valid because they couldn't confirm them as recent values weren't set. Even though I was arguing based on unequal appraisal.
KDubAg
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AG
404k down to 367k.

Had a virtual meeting. HCAD showed we had an extensive remodel in the kitchen in 2020 but we didn't do anything. They changed that from very good to good. Also prepared market analysis from 3 different entities and submitted plumbing (repipe) bids and electrical bids.

Not too bad.
CDUB98
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AG
Congratulations.

Getting any money back from those blood suckers is an accomplishment these days.
aTm_bomb
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AG
$398k, down from $445k. 8% increase YoY. Should have been somewhere in the 380k but not an awful result and a saved a few bucks in taxes this year.

Lady dropped some of the comps bc they were " too much larger" than my property (200 sq ft). Said that economies of scale as if houses are cheaper based how large you build them. I said you're telling me a 4000 sq ft house is cheaper than my 2300 soft house? I got a nonsense response and took the offer. I knew it was a lost cause arguing this as she was clearly not moving off her offer.

If anything, someone would pay MORE per sq ft for a larger house bc there are fewer of them in the area….

Fine with the result but man I hate someone lying to my face especially when we both know it. Just say I agree with some of your comps but this is what I'm comfortable offering.
Aggie09Derek
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AG
Disagree on $/sqft. Should be higher on smaller house for comparable area.

Mr. McGibblets
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AG
You need to research economies of scale…
aTm_bomb
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AG
I do understand it but happy to hear how it applies to market value of houses in a 70 year old neighborhood that are all within 10% range of sq stage.

If I am missing it, please share. The logic I got was half baked so it did t make sense to me.
Mr. McGibblets
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AG
Economies of scale doesn't give 2 ****s on age. It is an Economic principle that applies to different sizes compared to each other regardless of age, condition, etc etc etc.
Bondag
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AG
aTm_bomb said:

I do understand it but happy to hear how it applies to market value of houses in a 70 year old neighborhood that are all within 10% range of sq stage.

If I am missing it, please share. The logic I got was half baked so it did t make sense to me.


If they have the same number of rooms then the larger rooms are cheaper than adding everything for a new restroom or something like that.
Martin Q. Blank
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aTm_bomb said:

I do understand it but happy to hear how it applies to market value of houses in a 70 year old neighborhood that are all within 10% range of sq stage.

If I am missing it, please share. The logic I got was half baked so it did t make sense to me.
4000 and 2300 are not within 10% of each other.
aTm_bomb
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I honestly just wanted a clear explanation for something that was poorly explained during my hearing. I'm not an idiot but had never heard economies of scale in market valuation of homes.

The 4000 was an extreme example and was not a comp
Bondag
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AG
aTm_bomb said:

I honestly just wanted a clear explanation for something that was poorly explained during my hearing. I'm not an idiot but had never heard economies of scale in market valuation of homes.

The 4000 was an extreme example and was not a comp


Maybe not a 70 year old home but every suburban house in the 90s had a similar frame. You chose options that did not add to exterior of house or roof, but could buildout deadspace in an attic.

So if you add a game room and 3rd bath to a 4/2.5/2 the outside of the house looked the same, but dead attic space now became a game room and there was already a vent running in same space you you were paying for the fixtures. You added 400sf but the house looks the same from the street.
slavy06
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AG
Update after my formal ARB hearing yesterday:

  • Original market value increased by 25% and I proposed a 7% increase based on sales comps from Sept-Nov 2022.
  • Appraiser rambled on about HCAD comps (most from Feb-Apr 2022) and their "adjustments" being appropriate.
  • He proposed an increase of only 24%...what a generous offer.
  • I rebutted saying my comps were better and that HCAD adjustments from April 2022 to Jan 2023 were a complete guess and totally arbitrary why not use my comps.
  • All 3 of the "impartial" ARB members say they agreed with HCAD appraiser assessment of value - zero response when I ask them to justify their position.
  • Meeting ended and it felt eerily similar to the 77-0 debacle against OU - didn't even feel like I was given a fair shake.

This was the last straw for me to protest on my own - I'll let someone else deal with these folks when logic and reasoning are no longer a requirement.
htxag09
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AG
I had a similar experience my last protest, so use McGibblets now. That was the only time in my life I ever wanted to commit arson....
Aggie71013
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AG
The adjustments are my biggest gripe. There is no transparency as to how they're calculated, you seemingly can't argue against them, and they're constantly used as the basis for higher evaluation. It'd garbage that the appraiser can't at a minimum the basis for them.
Dr. Venkman
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AG
I've been doing my own protests for 16 years now and if you're going into the formal hearing with only "comps" as your evidence, you'll lose. From the board's perspective, it's like being your own witness against a traffic ticket for rolling a stop sign. If your only defense is "I didn't do it", you'll lose. Yes, I understand "comps" are evidence, but the point is you are completely biased because the selected comps lower your personal taxes vs. the appraiser's comps don't affect him one bit. He may be biased, but you're 100x more.

First, your biggest hope of getting a reduction is in the informal meeting. The appraiser is much more willing to look at your comps and see it from your side. In the formal meeting, they're your opponent that you have to overcome. But in the informal, there's no jury that each of you have to convince. Just two people trying to come to a resolution together. Sometimes you don't get a flexible appraiser, but sometimes you do. I protested 6 properties this year and the appraiser accepted my opinion's value on 4 of them.

If you do go to the formal (try to avoid at all cost), bring evidence that the appraiser didn't know about. Cracked foundation, hail damaged roof, etc. Something that shows the board that the appraiser simply didn't have all the information when doing his appraisal. Bring pictures and repair estimates.

Look at their evidence pack before you go and do research on each of their comparable properties. Look for anything that can justify a different adjustment than they used. Better location, nicer curbs appeal, etc. Take pictures of your ****ty house vs. the comparables.

But in the end, you'll lose in the formal 9 times out of 10. A homeowner with a vested interest in the outcome vs. a somewhat unbiased professional appraiser. Again, it's like a driver being his own witness vs. the cop that wrote you the ticket. Unless you get a sympathetic jury, you're going to lose. If the DA gives you any sort of deal before the trial, take it.
 
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