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HCAD 2023

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Dr. Venkman
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Aggie71013 said:

The adjustments are my biggest gripe. There is no transparency as to how they're calculated, you seemingly can't argue against them, and they're constantly used as the basis for higher evaluation. It'd garbage that the appraiser can't at a minimum the basis for them.
They have an adjustments chart. You can ask for it. They gave it to me once. I'll see if I can dig it up.

edit: I couldn't find it, but I found this on reddit. This is what the chart looks like, although this one is a few years old.

AgLA06
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Dr. Venkman said:

I've been doing my own protests for 16 years now and if you're going into the formal hearing with only "comps" as your evidence, you'll lose. From the board's perspective, it's like being your own witness against a traffic ticket for rolling a stop sign. If your only defense is "I didn't do it", you'll lose. Yes, I understand "comps" are evidence, but the point is you are completely biased because the selected comps lower your personal taxes vs. the appraiser's comps don't affect him one bit. He may be biased, but you're 100x more.

Look at their evidence pack before you go and do research on each of their comparable properties. Look for anything that can justify a different adjustment than they used. Better location, nicer curbs appeal, etc. Take pictures of your ****ty house vs. the comparables.

But in the end, you'll lose in the formal 9 times out of 10. A homeowner with a vested interest in the outcome vs. a somewhat unbiased professional appraiser. Again, it's like a driver being his own witness vs. the cop that wrote you the ticket. Unless you get a sympathetic jury, you're going to lose. If the DA gives you any sort of deal before the trial, take it.
If they have to change the comp value to be different that what they literally taxed that comp, it's more subjective and biased than a homeowner submitting the tax accessors factual numbers.

They're job is to secure the most tax base. There's nothing unbiased about it. I've literally had them tell me there was specific requirements or percentages they couldn't agree to even though my data supported it. It's borderline corruption.

Sale comps and their own taxed comps are the only unbiased things that can be submitted. Them then adjusting their own value or a known sales value is subjective and rigging the game.
Ryan the Temp
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Quote:

If they have to change the comp value to be different that what they literally taxed that comp, it's more subjective and biased than a homeowner submitting the tax accessors factual numbers.
During my protest on Monday I literally told the appraiser, "I get that you folks like to use this magic math that says if this comp had the same type of garage and if this comp didn't have a pool, etc. then it would be worth x amount, but I don't deal with hypotheticals. I deal with what actually exists on the ground, and what actually exists on the ground for these comps is not at all the same as my property. That's why all but one of your comps are completely invalid."

He threw out 4 of the 5 comps as a result and I ended up with a valuation that was $3,000 more than the one valid comp because I got new siding and a new roof a couple years ago. All said, i got my value down $26K below the noticed value. It wasn't what I wanted, but I'll take it.

I use the exact same argument about their comps every year and it always works. Last year I got all five comps thrown out.
TXTransplant
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AgLA06 said:

Dr. Venkman said:

I've been doing my own protests for 16 years now and if you're going into the formal hearing with only "comps" as your evidence, you'll lose. From the board's perspective, it's like being your own witness against a traffic ticket for rolling a stop sign. If your only defense is "I didn't do it", you'll lose. Yes, I understand "comps" are evidence, but the point is you are completely biased because the selected comps lower your personal taxes vs. the appraiser's comps don't affect him one bit. He may be biased, but you're 100x more.

Look at their evidence pack before you go and do research on each of their comparable properties. Look for anything that can justify a different adjustment than they used. Better location, nicer curbs appeal, etc. Take pictures of your ****ty house vs. the comparables.

But in the end, you'll lose in the formal 9 times out of 10. A homeowner with a vested interest in the outcome vs. a somewhat unbiased professional appraiser. Again, it's like a driver being his own witness vs. the cop that wrote you the ticket. Unless you get a sympathetic jury, you're going to lose. If the DA gives you any sort of deal before the trial, take it.
If they have to change the comp value to be different that what they literally taxed that comp, it's more subjective and biased than a homeowner submitting the tax accessors factual numbers.

They're job is to secure the most tax base. There's nothing unbiased about it. I've literally had them tell me there was specific requirements or percentages they couldn't agree to even though my data supported it. It's borderline corruption.

Sale comps and their own taxed comps are the only unbiased things that can be submitted. Them then adjusting their own value or a known sales value is subjective and rigging the game.


THIS! There is no better data than sales data, and they have almost all of the sales data. The fact that they aren't using it is infuriating because it's the best option for the vast majority of residential properties.

This arguing over whose house does or doesn't have a new roof or a new A/C or a remodel is garbage for TAX assessment purposes. The house with the most expensive remodel on the block could sit on the market for months and sell at a loss because the owners did something stupid like put in red lacquered kitchen cabinets and black toilets.

The only things about condition that should significantly affect the tax value is if the home is unsellable and/or uninhabitable (ie, major structural repairs).

Tax assessments shouldn't be about getting "maximum market value" for every property every year. They should reflect the average of all sales comps in a particular area, and comps should be grouped by square footage and pool/no pool. If someone does an extensive remodel, it will work itself out when the property sells and is reassessed based on the most recent sales price.

Will this mean some people's values are a little high and some too low? Sure it will, but this current situation of protesting grossly overinflated "mystery" values year over year is a waste of time and money. No homeowner should have to argue that their value is $30k too high because they need a new roof when the sales comps clearly show the value is $50k to high.

I think that's the point the guy on the previous page was trying to make about the economy of scale principle. Sure, that's a basic fundamental concept that usually applies to the cost of building something. But it doesn't continue to have the same effect 5, 10, or 20 years after a property is built, nor does it necessarily apply to resales.

Smaller houses really don't sell for a premium in my neighborhood because the demand is overwhelmingly for 3000+ sq ft McMansions. For years my $/sq ft was less that than of larger homes one cul de sac over because it's a smaller patio home among a development of family homes, and the smaller homes weren't selling as well. That's a trend specific to my market that would be reflected in prices of sales comps, not some arbitrary "adjustment". The trend has changed somewhat recently (values are more equal), but that's more a function of crazy low inventory causing sales prices to be higher across the board.

IMO, there is no reason to even routinely use human appraisers for tax assessments. Let a computer calculate it based on sales data specific criteria (ie, neighborhood and sq footage). Assuming the input is correct, there is no need for a human to make any "adjustments".
slavy06
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Yeah I've done my own protests for years now as well and had decent luck with appraisers during the informal, but this time the informal didn't back off the notice value one bit. My argument is that 2 of the HCAD "comps" actually sold for about what I was stating as the value of my home but their adjustments due to grade and time of sale (9 months away from Jan 1) increased their value by 25% which I thought was arbitrary at best and they couldn't explain it.

And to say the appraiser is unbiased is laughable but my biggest gripe is with the supposedly unbiased board.

TXTransplant
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I'm my area, the market probably peaked last April or May. A few houses in that time sold for stupid high prices. I think HCAD tried to capture that by adjusting all values up as though that sales price increase trend continued all year.

Problem is, as interest rates started to rise, prices came down and stabilized. Sales comps in my hood for Oct, Nov, and Dec are lower, and this continued into 1Q 2023.

HCAD wants to value property at that peak from 2Q 2022, ignoring the fact that values are supposed to be as of Jan 1, 2023. Basically, they seem to be ignoring the more recent data that lowers their assessments, even though that's the better data to use.

I don't know squat about how yearly assessments are calculated. But from an engineering/data analysis perspective it sure seems like they built a model based on data from early in the year and didn't adjust that model when prices came down. And they have zero incentive or responsibility to correct it.

And homeowners who have a closing statement to prove what they paid have an advantage over the rest of us.
Dr. Venkman
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AgLA06 said:

Dr. Venkman said:

I've been doing my own protests for 16 years now and if you're going into the formal hearing with only "comps" as your evidence, you'll lose. From the board's perspective, it's like being your own witness against a traffic ticket for rolling a stop sign. If your only defense is "I didn't do it", you'll lose. Yes, I understand "comps" are evidence, but the point is you are completely biased because the selected comps lower your personal taxes vs. the appraiser's comps don't affect him one bit. He may be biased, but you're 100x more.

Look at their evidence pack before you go and do research on each of their comparable properties. Look for anything that can justify a different adjustment than they used. Better location, nicer curbs appeal, etc. Take pictures of your ****ty house vs. the comparables.

But in the end, you'll lose in the formal 9 times out of 10. A homeowner with a vested interest in the outcome vs. a somewhat unbiased professional appraiser. Again, it's like a driver being his own witness vs. the cop that wrote you the ticket. Unless you get a sympathetic jury, you're going to lose. If the DA gives you any sort of deal before the trial, take it.
If they have to change the comp value to be different that what they literally taxed that comp, it's more subjective and biased than a homeowner submitting the tax accessors factual numbers.

They're job is to secure the most tax base. There's nothing unbiased about it. I've literally had them tell me there was specific requirements or percentages they couldn't agree to even though my data supported it. It's borderline corruption.

Sale comps and their own taxed comps are the only unbiased things that can be submitted. Them then adjusting their own value or a known sales value is subjective and rigging the game.
You may have success convincing TexAgs posters that the HCAD appraiser is more biased than you, but what good does that do?

I'm just relaying my experience. The board will side with a professional appraiser over a non-licensed homeowner who has skin in the game 9 times out of 10 when the evidence is comps only. The formal meeting should be avoided at all costs if that's all you're bringing to the table. my 2 cents
Diggity
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I think this is your general area.

looks like you guys are right about at your peak. it goes up and down due to seasonality, but hard to argue a large drop, unless it's some hyperlocal event



AgLA06
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Could you pull 77018 or even a specific neighborhood if I DM'd you? What about rent prices?

It's not for taxes, but for personal strategy on something.
Diggity
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sure
Sazerac
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Curious on your thoughts on a strategy that just focuses on comparing to the house right next door to me that is assed $200k less and would likely sell for more than my house.

1. Total remodel vs my 2nd floor has not been touched in 20 years.
2 they have a pool - like most neighbors - which is valued in this hood filled with kids
3. They have a new front porch / covering
4. For some reason HCAD has my house as only having 3 bedrooms instead of 4

Thanks
TXTransplant
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It does seem like we could be peaking again, which isn't a huge surprise because inventory is really low right now. I think the number of sales is even lower than last year (and it was low then, too). I'm thinking I may not even have any appropriate comps for next years protest.

There was a difference between the comps last April-May and the end of the year. It wasn't huge (maybe a few $/sq ft), but it was there.

Problem was, HCAD valued 4Q 2022 sold properties at 15-25% above what they sold for. They seem to have taken the increase observed from 1Q to 2Q and extrapolated that across the board to the end of the year. Prices didn't continue going up, and certainly not at the rate the tax values suggested.

At my hearing, I didn't argue a drop in sales prices over a specific quarter of 2022. I just used an average $/sq ft from comps across the whole year.

The HCAD appraiser had the three closest comps (same ones I used) and valued my house at the highest $/sq ft equivalent.
TAM85
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Diggity, could you please post a list price over time graph for Market Area 392 (77024, Facet 5058)?

Does comparing traffic counts for the subject and HCAD's comps make any difference?

Thank you.
E
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Does HCAD tax you based off the appraised or market values? I'm assuming its appraised value so wondering whats the reason for adding market in there

Got my protest results back and nothing budged on the appraised values, but they dropped the market value by $38k
htxag09
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E said:

Does HCAD tax you based off the appraised or market values? I'm assuming its appraised value so wondering whats the reason for adding market in there

Got my protest results back and nothing budged on the appraised values, but they dropped the market value by $38k
TAM85
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The list price by square foot graph above on this page indicates an increase or decrease in list prices for a specific market area. I would like to compare a similar graph for my market area to the percent increase or decrease the HCAD appraiser uses to adjust comparable sales from early 2022 to January 1, 2023.

If there is a similar graph for sale prices within my market area, it would be even better.
Dr. Venkman
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Sazerac said:

Curious on your thoughts on a strategy that just focuses on comparing to the house right next door to me that is assed $200k less and would likely sell for more than my house.

1. Total remodel vs my 2nd floor has not been touched in 20 years.
2 they have a pool - like most neighbors - which is valued in this hood filled with kids
3. They have a new front porch / covering
4. For some reason HCAD has my house as only having 3 bedrooms instead of 4

Thanks
Same square footage and lot size? I typically like to bring at least 3 comparables.

Regardless, my main point in posting was to stress the importance of the informal hearing. That's where you'll have the best chance at lowering the valuation. Only go to the formal if the appraiser doesn't budge at all. And if you go to the formal, lower your expectations to the floor.
pnut02
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Thoughts on a Friday 3pm meeting with 3-person ARB?
Or do I reschedule to a time in the morning where there's a chance they'll be happier and more willing to adjust?
aTm_bomb
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What time do you prefer getting rear ended? That's the only question.
High Functioning Moron
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I just had my informal meeting earlier this week and I was arguing on the basis of repairs. The guy said that they can only consider repairs made during the tax assessment year which is 2023, meaning only repairs completed in 2023 could be used to reduce the value. He accepted quotes for repairs to reduce value and an invoice for repairs that were completed a couple of months ago, but wouldn't accept significant repairs done in December 2022.

So that means anything done after your hearing/settlement in the year will not be used. This didn't make any sense to me, but then again I am a moron. The dude couldn't explain this to me and just rattled off some statement that was just jibberish.
Martin Q. Blank
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High Functioning Moron said:

I just had my informal meeting earlier this week and I was arguing on the basis of repairs. The guy said that they can only consider repairs made during the tax assessment year which is 2023, meaning only repairs completed in 2023 could be used to reduce the value. He accepted quotes for repairs to reduce value and an invoice for repairs that were completed a couple of months ago, but wouldn't accept significant repairs done in December 2022.

So that means anything done after your hearing/settlement in the year will not be used. This didn't make any sense to me, but then again I am a moron. The dude couldn't explain this to me and just rattled off some statement that was just jibberish.
Your valuation in theory is January 1, 2023. So if you had repairs completed before that, you can't really argue that it affects your value.
Hulla Baller
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This may be a stupid question but I figured it a good place to ask. Are the taxes you pay based on the appraised or market value of your house? I just heard back from the law firm who did the protest for me this year and they were able to get the market value lowered but not the appraised value.
Martin Q. Blank
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Hulla Baller said:

This may be a stupid question but I figured it a good place to ask. Are the taxes you pay based on the appraised or market value of your house? I just heard back from the law firm who did the protest for me this year and they were able to get the market value lowered but not the appraised value.
appraised. Your law firm did not save you any money.
JJxvi
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The "Appraised Value" will be the starting value that you pay based on (it might be further lowered by varying amounts based on your exemptions, like Homestead, to a "Taxable Value" that you pay based on in each jurisdiction.

"Market Value" is the market value, which in most cases is how the "Appraised Value" would be determined.

However, Section 23 of the Property Tax Code spells out varying situations where the "Appraised Value" will be calculated in a different way. In your case, probably Sec. 23.23 which is the "Limitation on the Appraised Value of a Residence Homestead" which limits the Appraised Value to a maximum of "last years appraised value + value of new improvements + 10% of last years appraised value"

In this case the result of the protest did not save you anything even though they did lower your value, but not enough to change the Appraised Value.
TexAg2001
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Thanks again for providing the definitions of "Total" vs "Extensive"! I had my formal protest meeting this morning and got what I felt was a great outcome, mostly because I had these definitions.

I've used BR Lawson for 5 years. I felt like they did good the first couple of years, but failed miserably last year. Unfortunately, I forgot to cancel my agreement with them before it auto-renewed. This time I stayed on top of them and overloaded them with data I created. I also made them send me the links to the hearings so I could attend and comment.

My main argument is that my "Extensively" remodeled 1964 home is classified as a "Total Remodel", which has much higher multipliers. Per HCAD, my home is 36% more valuable than the average home in my neighborhood, which is absolutely not the case. I get that most home values have risen in recent years, but mine has risen at a higher % than those around me.

My home's last 5 years Market Value, per HCAD:
2019: $381,162 (After protest)
2020: $381,239 (After protest)
2021: $381,239 (After protest)
2022: $458,000, Adjusted to $419,385 after protest. (They basically brought Market down to match Appraised)
2023: $514,950 (I got them to adjust this down to $400,000 at today's meeting)

After showing the evidence, they very quickly agreed to change the value, which almost makes me wonder if I could have gone lower. My follow-up question to them was if the remodel classification will be adjusted to "Extensive". They said they'll make a note in my file and "someone will visit my home to verify." I have a feeling nobody will come and I'll have to fight for the change again next year, but I'll claim the victory for today.

Sazerac
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Where do you find the Total\Extensive grade?
I need to make the same argument.

TexAg2001
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Look at Diggity's post I was responding to. It's on Page 6 of 12 in this thread. He posted the definitions of Total and Extensive that he had gotten from somewhere.
Sazerac
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But where do you see what they rated your house?
TexAg2001
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Sorry, I misunderstood your question. Look at your property on HCAD.org. You'll find it at the bottom in the area called "Building Details". Look at Building Data. My "Cost and Design" is shown as Total. I was arguing it should be Extensive based off the definitions of each.
Diggity
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Really glad to hear it worked out for you!

In my case, they ended up hard coding the classification. It didn't kick in until the following year but nobody ever came out to verify.
Sazerac
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Thanks. Did you just show them pictures on your phone or something?
TexAg2001
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The hearing was virtual, so I shared my computer screen. I took pictures of various parts of the house (Kitchen, Bathroom, Living Room, Master Bedroom). I added captions on each photo indicating what was original in each photo and was was part of a renovation.

A large part of my argument is that the drywall was never removed or replaced That means everything inside the walls (electrical/plumbing) is original. Also, except for the kitchen, which got new cabinets in the remodel, all of the built-in cabinetry in living area and bathroom cabinetry is original to the home, but refinished with new countertops.
Sazerac
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Thx.
Mine is already extensive, not total.
Not sure I can get it down to Average.
First floor was completely remodeled post Harvey. But 2nd floor was last touched in early 2000s including both bathrooms.

Most of my neighbors have fully remodeled homes.
ChipFTAC01
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I had my informal back informal back on 6/21 (which was laughable and lasted about 10 minutes). They still haven't scheduled my ARB. Am I supposed to do something? I've never had to wait like this.
Martin Q. Blank
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ChipFTAC01 said:

I had my informal back informal back on 6/21 (which was laughable and lasted about 10 minutes). They still haven't scheduled my ARB. Am I supposed to do something? I've never had to wait like this.
No, just wait for them to schedule it. I say the later the better because your neighbors can get their protests completed and you can use their new (hopefully lower) comps as evidence.
 
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