No, logical thinking is this isn't spreading any differently than any other virus, but we're treating it like it's something it's not. Logical thinking is people who are taking minimal precautions (cut up t-shirt over their mouth) really aren't taking precautions at all, and will not continue to take those precautions once this blows over, even though there are viruses/diseases out there that are just as or more dangerous to them. Which makes this whole thing silly. If you really believe a mask will help prevent the spread, then go all out and wear one everywhere for the rest of your life.Texaggie7nine said:More logical thinkingaTm2004 said:Less =/= none, so unless you're doing everything else to protect yourself (wiping down items on the store shelves before touching, sanitizing yourself before getting into your car or walking into your house, you're not really doing much. Also, Leslie with her cowgirl bandanna over her mouth with the bottom flapping around like her saggy up-tops isn't stopping anything when she coughs up a lung from 37 years of 2 packs a day.Texaggie7nine said:Well logical thinking says less water droplets flying out of your mouth into the air is going to result in less virus load available for others to breath in or fall onto surfaces.aTm2004 said:What? Pointing out the complete loss of logical thinking because of fear and how what we should be doing changes like the effing wind? That's exactly what this is.Texaggie7nine said:
He seems to be doing that a lot of this thread.
When something is bad
none of it is best while less of it is better than more.
we tried that back in february. does the exponential spike in cases not ring a bell? Sure our hospitals didnt get overloaded thankfully as we practiced social distancing early enough. We are currently at around 50,000 deaths related to COVID-19 in the US. Sure you can argue about how what percentage of those are deaths that would have occurred anyways but they happened to have tested positive for the virus. We hit that 50,000 number in roughly 2 months and we aren't out of the woods yet. The CDC reports we have had anywhere between 24,000 and 62,000 deaths related to the 2019-20 flu season which runs from october through april. We currently are at the peak of number of newly infected per day which only exists because of social distancing and we have already equaled or perhaps surpassed the flu season death count. Are you really convinced this is just no worse than a flu and we'll all just go about our lives with the same previous set of general hygiene rules and the death count wont somehow hit 200,000 by the end of the year?aTm2004 said:Or just practice the same hygiene procedures we always have and go about our lives,cajunaggie08 said:
all those quotes seem to justify that wearing a mask to reduce the spread of infected person water/spit droplets is a good idea.
Also not a doc, but I think the method of transmission for the flu and coronavirus are the same, but the efficiency of transmission is different. For the flu, the average person spreads the flu to around 1.3 people, whereas the CDC estimates the average person spread coronavirus to 5.7 people in China. The NIH estimated that the average person spread coronavirus to 2.3 people on the Diamond Princess cruise ship.aTm2004 said:
What's not accurate? That this thing is spreading like other viruses? I'm simply amazed by how logic is thrown out the window with people because of fear. This isn't some supervirus that is spreading in odd ways. It's spreading in much the same ways as others. The only reason sneeze guards are put up at grocery stores is to give the people who decided to panic because of the fear hype the media has been feeding them some sense of security, no matter how effective it is. If there weren't "experts" (<cough>political hacks</cough>) on TV predicting millions of people dying because of this in an attempt to spread fear, we'd be living a normal life right now.
I'm not a doc, but I know some post on here. Maybe they can chime in and say "normal viruses are spread by A, B, and C, but this virus isn't spreading like that. It's spreading by X, Y, and Z." If there's proof this thing isn't spreading like other viruses, then I'll admit I'm wrong, but based on the CDC, it's not.
HouAggie2007 said:
Oh right, the part of a discussion board where you get to make claims and then say but I don't want to talk about it/not looking for responses. I don't care.
Also don't give a **** about your wife's illnesses. Was unaware that she has a predisposition to covid symptoms
HouAggie2007 said:
Then why make knowingly incorrect statements?
Does only testing if you meet certain requirements ring a bell? If your'e only testing people who have a high probability of having it, you're going to have a huge spike in cases. And now, it seems like it's been around much longer than people originally thought and more people have the antibodies than originally thought, so is the spike really a spike?cajunaggie08 said:we tried that back in february. does the exponential spike in cases not ring a bell? Sure our hospitals didnt get overloaded thankfully as we practiced social distancing early enough.aTm2004 said:Or just practice the same hygiene procedures we always have and go about our lives,cajunaggie08 said:
all those quotes seem to justify that wearing a mask to reduce the spread of infected person water/spit droplets is a good idea.
Yeah, the death numbers will look huge if you count anybody that had it or could have had it as a COVID death, even if it wasn't the true cause of their death. Do you honestly think someone in hospice with a month to live who tested positive from COVID was killed by COVID? But hey, that 50,000 deaths is much better than the millions the "experts" predicted at the start of this.Quote:
We are currently at around 50,000 deaths related to COVID-19 in the US. Sure you can argue about how what percentage of those are deaths that would have occurred anyways but they happened to have tested positive for the virus. We hit that 50,000 number in roughly 2 months and we aren't out of the woods yet.
Because the above mentioned person's neighbor in hospice who died of what they were there for who had the flu isn't being counted as a flu death.Quote:
The CDC reports we have had anywhere between 24,000 and 62,000 deaths related to the 2019-20 flu season which runs from october through april. We currently are at the peak of number of newly infected per day which only exists because of social distancing and we have already equaled or perhaps surpassed the flu season death count. Are you really convinced this is just no worse than a flu and we'll all just go about our lives with the same previous set of general hygiene rules and the death count wont somehow hit 200,000 by the end of the year?
Considering the studies being released showing potentially hundreds of thousands of people having the antibodies to it, thus driving down the true death rate/severity of this, probably a number of things.Texaggie7nine said:
What's out there that is just as dangerous or worse that I am just as likely to catch from breathing it in if I go out to the market today?
Hate to tell you, but if the regular flu made NYC have far over twice the normal daily death rate than without it, the same push to wear masks everywhere would be happening for the flu.
Don't want to argue but does it anyway.CDUB98 said:HouAggie2007 said:
Then why make knowingly incorrect statements?
It is not knowingly incorrect.
It is a high probability assumption, one which, obviously, you disagree with.
If you don't like probabilities based on observation, I sure hope you're just as upset about NYC's added 3,700 cases, because that's exactly what they did as well. No testing, just assumption based on observation.
If it weren't for my wife, I would not make sure a strong statement of probability.
Look, I've got to get back to work. Go argue with 2004. He's up for it.
So, we're not sure if traveling to crowded places played a role or not.Quote:
We first translated reports from documents or news reports published daily from the China CDC website and official websites of health commissions across provinces and special municipalities in China during January 1530, 2020. Altogether, we collected 137 individual case reports from China and 3 additional case reports from outside of China
...
We found R0 is likely to be 5.7 given our current state of knowledge, with a broad 95% CI (3.88.9). Among many factors, the lack of awareness of this new pathogen and the Lunar New Year travel and gathering in early and mid-January 2020 might or might not play a role in the high R0
Huh? Why haven't the high number of people who have had it driven the daily death rates to well over 2x the normal for weeks then? What are you asking?Texaggie7nine said:
Why hasn't any number of those things driven daily death rates to well over 2x the normal for weeks then?
Is showing you how it's accurate with facts moving the goal posts?Ag_07 said:
Just stop now while you can.
He's gonna keep moving the goal posts and is gonna continue to be an ass just to be an ass.
It's not worth your time.
no sht. This thread has gone off the rails big time.Bondag said:
Can we take this to a PM or a new thread?
Yeah this thread sucks now98Ag99Grad said:no sht. This thread has gone off the rails big time.Bondag said:
Can we take this to a PM or a new thread?
I mean, I did also link an NIH study saying the R0 was around 2.3.aTm2004 said:
They're basing their study off of info from China. Sorry if I take that with a grain of salt.So, we're not sure if traveling to crowded places played a role or not.Quote:
We first translated reports from documents or news reports published daily from the China CDC website and official websites of health commissions across provinces and special municipalities in China during January 1530, 2020. Altogether, we collected 137 individual case reports from China and 3 additional case reports from outside of China
...
We found R0 is likely to be 5.7 given our current state of knowledge, with a broad 95% CI (3.88.9). Among many factors, the lack of awareness of this new pathogen and the Lunar New Year travel and gathering in early and mid-January 2020 might or might not play a role in the high R0
That was answered here with Dr. Brix's comments.Texaggie7nine said:
Why hasn't any of these other things you claim are supposedly just as dangerous as CV, including the common flu ever created similar daily death rate increases such as in NY?
"With" being the key word. If they die with it, it's counted, regardless of whether or not it was the cause. If she said "of," then it would mean that was the actual cause. Do you think they're going to notate the common flu as the cause of death for a hospice patient given a month or so to live? I don't think so. That's why people are questioning the real death numbers. From what the "experts" are saying, they're being inflated.Quote:
Responding to a question from a reporter about potential underreporting of novel coronavirus deaths in the nation, Dr. Birx responded: "I think in this country, we are taking a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks," she said, adding, "If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that."
Is assumed to... Well, I'm assuming the death rate is higher than it really is based on the "experts" telling medical professionals to notate COVID if it is "assumed to" caused or contributed to the death, whether it really did or not.Quote:
"COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death," reads CDC guidance issued in March. "Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II."
Turner came out this afternoon at his press conference and said HPD will not be using citations, rather passing out masks.blindey said:
The discussion about masks on this thread certainly brought out the Karens that post on this board.
That said, requiring masks outdoors is pointless. Asking people to use common sense rather than threatening them with criminal liability will go significantly further.
If I'm going to be somewhere where close proximity is inevitable (like when I go get groceries or some such) then I put the mask on. If I go for a walk in my neighborhood, no mask. Waste of time.
Some (admittedly conservative) lawyer and doctor filed a TRO against Judge Dora today. Democrat judges on the bench in Harris County might be unlikely to enforce but that one will wind its way up the appellate process quickly I think.
Where are you seeing it more than doubled? When I search for it, all I see is COVID, which goes back to my point of people with it being classified as a COVID death even if it wasn't the cause. Again, "with" not "of" being the biggest thing.Texaggie7nine said:
Forget what the marked "cause of death" is for any of the deaths. That is not important in my question.
SOMETHING caused the daily rate of people dying in NY to more than double itself from the average for weeks. What was it? Car deaths have plummeted, accidents have plummeted.
