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ITC Deer Park

76,204 Views | 513 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by suburban cowboy
Diggity
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suburban cowboy said:

2) I was told a first hand story about the contract fire SME from Lousiana that ITC hired. They gave him $1MM upfront to get him here, he shows up in the boardroom full of ITC Senior Management with a giant dip in. He then spits in his cup and says something along the lines of, "I know what kind of monster we're up against, and I'm here to put this MF out." Then proceeded to walk out the room to get to work.


I heard when it was all over he said the fire had lifeless eyes, red eyes, like a doll's eyes
Liquid Wrench
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BBRex
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lne2011
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suburban cowboy said:

Two things:


2) I was told a first hand story about the contract fire SME from Lousiana that ITC hired. They gave him $1MM upfront to get him here, he shows up in the boardroom full of ITC Senior Management with a giant dip in. He then spits in his cup and says something along the lines of, "I know what kind of monster we're up against, and I'm here to put this MF out." Then proceeded to walk out the room to get to work.


Please let this be true, so f'ing awesome!
Marvin_Zindler
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suburban cowboy said:

Two things:

1) Industry is the most progressive it has ever been when it comes to self-reporting. There is almost no such thing as sweeping major EHS issues under the rug. That's a good thing, obviously.

2) I was told a first hand story about the contract fire SME from Lousiana that ITC hired. They gave him $1MM upfront to get him here, he shows up in the boardroom full of ITC Senior Management with a giant dip in. He then spits in his cup and says something along the lines of, "I know what kind of monster we're up against, and I'm here to put this MF out." Then proceeded to walk out the room to get to work.
Dear God, I love cajuns.
schmellba99
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CDUB98 said:

WES2006AG said:

God forbid we set up rules to keep the air breathable and precautions that might prevent huge tanks of chemicals from catching on fire. I am not sure the message from this event is we need less regulations.


No, we need reasonable and achievable regulations.

Not ones that are so impossible to meet it merely becomes an annual tax on businesses that gov't wants.


Yep. Regs that are impossible,to meet become an obstacle that is nothing more than a cost.

And if you put tons of effort into something only to fail and get fines levied against you, the attitude quickly changes to "eff it, I am going to get fined anyway, so i will just pay the fine without the cost and effort involved trying to stay within the regs and law", which is far worse than regs that the industry sets that can be met at a reasonable cost and effort with tangible results.

But you have to actually have knowledge and experience to connect the dots, guys like WESAG think just making up rules magically solve the problem.
txags92
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schmellba99 said:

CDUB98 said:

WES2006AG said:

God forbid we set up rules to keep the air breathable and precautions that might prevent huge tanks of chemicals from catching on fire. I am not sure the message from this event is we need less regulations.


No, we need reasonable and achievable regulations.

Not ones that are so impossible to meet it merely becomes an annual tax on businesses that gov't wants.


Yep. Regs that are impossible,to meet become an obstacle that is nothing more than a cost.

And if you put tons of effort into something,only to fail and get fines levied against you, the attitude quickly changes to "eff it, I am,going,to,get fined anyway, so i will just pay the fine without the cost and effort involved", which is far worse than refs that the industry sets that can be met at a reasonable cost and effort with tangible results.

But you have to actually have knowlwdge and experience to connect the dots, guys like WESAG think just making up rules magically solve the problem.
Well those rules worked for things like murder, rape, and drugs...nobody does those things anymore since they were made illegal, am I right?
nonameag99
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You are obviously an operator in the area

Government rules are deterrents

No government rule can prevent anything

Ho lee *****... weed is illegal

But it is everywhere

It is illegal to DWI but I do it all the time

The Aggie number specified has already been linked with another TexAgs account.
Anti-taxxer
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ITC has issued a shelter-in-place for all of Deer Park due to dangerous benzine levels.

https://abc13.com/elevated-benzene-levels-at-itc-shelter-in-place-for-deer-park/5209552/
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jobu93
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Here we go
95_Aggie
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Quote:

Well those rules worked for things like murder, rape, and drugs...nobody does those things anymore since they were made illegal, am I right?
What a stupid comment.
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third coast.. said:

Welp, that'll rile up the hens.

Yep. The Moms of Pearland have definitely not let me down this morning.
bigjag19
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Someone asking who else is keeping their kid at home in my hood in Clear Lake. I forget that schools keep kids outside all day and don't have any type of HVAC in place.
Flashdiaz
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surely this wording won't cause any worry:

"Residents are advised to remain indoors and to close all doors, windows and other sources of outside air," the city said. "Turn off air conditioning or heating systems and close the fireplace damper to keep chemical vapors from entering.
txags92
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95_Aggie said:

Quote:

Well those rules worked for things like murder, rape, and drugs...nobody does those things anymore since they were made illegal, am I right?
What a stupid comment.
Why? It illustrates the point that making something illegal or against the rules doesn't stop it from happening. As was pointed out by the posters I was responding to, when you make a system that is impossible to comply with, some people will quit trying too hard to comply and will just accept the fines as a cost of doing business. TCEQ and EPA and local agency inspectors have reached the point where they typically don't find big glaring issues when they go to facilities anymore. Very rarely is a facility just blatantly ignoring the laws and polluting deliberately. Most of what they write people up for are very nit picky violations where papers where shuffled in the wrong order or other "violations" that have nothing to do with actual pollution.

I compare it to hiring a contractor to review a document. Even if the document is absolutely perfect, the contractor is going to come up with a list of comments and deficiencies because that is what they are being paid to do. If they reviewed it and said "looks fine to us" without any additional comments, the people paying them would start wondering if it was worth paying them to review it. The TCEQ and local agencies in particular are that way with their inspections now. If they go out there and don't find something major to write you up for, they are still going to come up with something and make you defend it and pay fines to cover it. Lots of companies that do an excellent job complying with the laws and preventing pollution have a long list of nit picky little procedural "violations" and fines paid that would make you think they have a "history of noncompliance" if the Chronicle did a story about their record.
JABQ04
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smango05 said:

third coast.. said:

Welp, that'll rile up the hens.

Yep. The Moms of Pearland have definitely not let me down this morning.


My wife was telling me about this. (I live in Pearland and work at a refinery in Texas City). We were watching this Sunday on shift when it was only one tank on the news. Looked like it was more or less contained then. Guess we were wrong
Caliber
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bigjag19 said:

Someone asking who else is keeping their kid at home in my hood in Clear Lake. I forget that schools keep kids outside all day and don't have any type of HVAC in place.
As alluded to in the S-I-P notice, HVAC makes it worse in most buildings as they do bring in outside air. HVAC filters typically don't take out VOCs, so won't help in the case of elevated benzene levels.

But clear lake isn't sheltering in place, so a bit moot.
Cromagnum
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smango05 said:

ITC has issued a shelter-in-place for all of Deer Park due to dangerous benzine levels.

https://abc13.com/elevated-benzene-levels-at-itc-shelter-in-place-for-deer-park/5209552/


So is Benzene above the short term exposure (5 ppm), or the 8 hour exposure limit (1 ppm) ?
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JABQ04 said:

smango05 said:

third coast.. said:

Welp, that'll rile up the hens.

Yep. The Moms of Pearland have definitely not let me down this morning.


My wife was telling me about this. (I live in Pearland and work at a refinery in Texas City). We were watching this Sunday on shift when it was only one tank on the news. Looked like it was more or less contained then. Guess we were wrong

My husband works at one in Galena Park, and is on the ERT. He was furious all day sunday about them not cooling the other tanks. This is a disaster.
Caliber
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Cromagnum said:

smango05 said:

ITC has issued a shelter-in-place for all of Deer Park due to dangerous benzine levels.

https://abc13.com/elevated-benzene-levels-at-itc-shelter-in-place-for-deer-park/5209552/


So is Benzene above the short term exposure (5 ppm), or the 8 hour exposure limit (1 ppm) ?
The Deer Park PD shelter in place said "A Shelter-in-Place has been issued for the City of Deer Park following reports of action levels of benzene or other volatile organic compounds (VOCs) within city limits."

Action level for Benzene, according to Osha:

Quote:

Action level means an airborne concentration of benzene of 0.5 ppm calculated as an 8-hour time-weighted average.
Ferris Wheel Allstar
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From KHOU article.

Quote:

"I was nauseated," she said. "My throat was hurting. My ears were hurting. My eyes were running water and my nose was like a faucet."
Its called allergies to tree pollen. I have had this for a month.
schmellba99
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Ferris Wheel Allstar said:

From KHOU article.

Quote:

"I was nauseated," she said. "My throat was hurting. My ears were hurting. My eyes were running water and my nose was like a faucet."
Its called allergies to tree pollen. I have had this for a month.
You just know Jim Adler is sitting around with a more than 4 hour long hard on thinking about all of the cases that are going to walk through his door.
RVAg02
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Public Heath just said readings of 1-5ppm
RVAg02
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Man the county judge is worthless
schmellba99
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Yep.

It doesn't help that many of these enforcement agencies have the ability to levy fines that go into their bank accounts - there is no incentive for OSHA to not fine you - they are the beneficiary of the check you have to write after they find a violation.

And I know this comes as a complete shock to guys like WESAG, but those big evil oil companies and corporations don't want to pollute. There is no benefit to them for doing so. They want clean air and clean water like the rest of us do, and most of them spend a rather large sum of money on an annual basis that comes right off the bottom line to keep their equipment running, containment systems in place, etc. There are far more benefits to being clean than just worrying about OSHA or TCEQ.

Some are obviously better than others, but the general mindset is that putting product on the ground or in the water or burning it unnecessarily isn't a good thing - even if it is just from a profitability standpoint, because that is product that can't be sold.
tamu02
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RVAg02 said:

Man the county judge is worthless


Thanks Beto and your libtard voters
Ferris Wheel Allstar
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I wonder how much money Mitsui is going to have to pay in lawsuits? Yalls Sapporo beer prices are about to go uup.
suburban cowboy
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Ferris Wheel Allstar said:

I wonder how much money Mitsui is going to have to pay in lawsuits? Yalls Sapporo beer prices are about to go uup.


Imagine all the cholo and hood opportunists that are going to put in claims. Then all of the claims from industry partners for support and lost production.
HerschelwoodHardhead
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schmellba99 said:

Yep.

It doesn't help that many of these enforcement agencies have the ability to levy fines that go into their bank accounts - there is no incentive for OSHA to not fine you - they are the beneficiary of the check you have to write after they find a violation.

And I know this comes as a complete shock to guys like WESAG, but those big evil oil companies and corporations don't want to pollute. There is no benefit to them for doing so. They want clean air and clean water like the rest of us do, and most of them spend a rather large sum of money on an annual basis that comes right off the bottom line to keep their equipment running, containment systems in place, etc. There are far more benefits to being clean than just worrying about OSHA or TCEQ.

Some are obviously better than others, but the general mindset is that putting product on the ground or in the water or burning it unnecessarily isn't a good thing - even if it is just from a profitability standpoint, because that is product that can't be sold.
Hm, I'm sure they don't WANT to pollute, but their primary goal (like any other company) is to make profits. Environmental/Safety precautions come at a cost, and inevitably there's a line drawn where an acceptable level of risk is determined. Knowing human nature, I don't want the operators solely responsible for determining that.

While many on here seem to loathe government regulations, the fact is they are necessary because these companies don't operate in a vacuum. When they make mistakes, the general public suffers. And the history of the industrialized world is rife with examples of companies taking shortcuts that caused long-term environmental disasters. You can argue that this view has changed, but I'd argue that nitpicking from OSHA/TCEQ/EPA keeps them honest. It's a pain in the ass, but without that these companies would eventually descend back into old habits. I'd rather err on the side of caution and spend a few more dollars on my petroleum based products, but that's just my opinion.
txags92
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HerschelwoodHardhead said:

schmellba99 said:

Yep.

It doesn't help that many of these enforcement agencies have the ability to levy fines that go into their bank accounts - there is no incentive for OSHA to not fine you - they are the beneficiary of the check you have to write after they find a violation.

And I know this comes as a complete shock to guys like WESAG, but those big evil oil companies and corporations don't want to pollute. There is no benefit to them for doing so. They want clean air and clean water like the rest of us do, and most of them spend a rather large sum of money on an annual basis that comes right off the bottom line to keep their equipment running, containment systems in place, etc. There are far more benefits to being clean than just worrying about OSHA or TCEQ.

Some are obviously better than others, but the general mindset is that putting product on the ground or in the water or burning it unnecessarily isn't a good thing - even if it is just from a profitability standpoint, because that is product that can't be sold.
Hm, I'm sure they don't WANT to pollute, but their primary goal (like any other company) is to make profits. Environmental/Safety precautions come at a cost, and inevitably there's a line drawn where an acceptable level of risk is determined. Knowing human nature, I don't want the operators solely responsible for determining that.

While many on here seem to loathe government regulations, the fact is they are necessary because these companies don't operate in a vacuum. When they make mistakes, the general public suffers. And the history of the industrialized world is rife with examples of companies taking shortcuts that caused long-term environmental disasters. You can argue that this view has changed, but I'd argue that nitpicking from OSHA/TCEQ/EPA keeps them honest. It's a pain in the ass, but without that these companies would eventually descend back into old habits. I'd rather err on the side of caution and spend a few more dollars on my petroleum based products, but that's just my opinion.
Don't take my posts the wrong way. Having regulations is necessary and important. But just making it illegal is not good enough. You need to make the process for compliance easy enough that it can be done without the need to fine people every time they forget to cross a t or dot an i. I would love to see them move to two classes of violations...procedural and physical. Make the physical violations subject to fines, while the procedural ones just add a multiplier to the fines. So if you have your papers stacked in the wrong order, they can write it up...but don't get to assess a fine. But if they find an actual physical violation (non-functioning control equipment as an example), then they can assess a fine, and the past record of procedural violations guides the scale of the fine. That would give the inspectors the incentive to look for the big ticket items instead of spending days burying themselves and everybody else in paperwork when they come out for an inspection.
Jethro95
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Just in from Katy ISD - Out of an abundance of caution, all student activities will be held indoors until further notice today .....................

RebelE91
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Quote:

Just in from Katy ISD - Out of an abundance of caution, all student activities will be held indoors until further notice today .....................
I thought you were joking....nope it's real. Thank God somebody is thinking about the children 40 miles from the ITC site.
OnlyForNow
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Not really trying to stir the pot, but Benzene is serious stuff that you don't want to be exposed to.

Have no idea what, if any detectable levels there are in Katy, but it's extremely precautionary.

Around the plant site, there is an action alert for Benzene.
Silvy
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Deer Park PD was at just about every intersection along Pasadena Blvd not allowing anyone to travel further north. Around Pasadena Blvd & Red Bluff people started driving a bit more erratically and I started to smell something like gasoline. Busted a u turn and got out that *****
 
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