sosolik said:

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Finn Maccumhail said:

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MAROON said:

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Finn Maccumhail said:

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sosolik said:

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chilimuybueno said:

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These kids are selected from their respective teams. Not a predetermined team, but they almost all have personal coaches and may play some select team ball.

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Wrong....they are a select team that plays LL at 12U so they can have this select team makeup their All-Star team. They all do it.

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If these kids are on one team all LL season long and preordained to be the All Star team that's pretty BS IMHO.

Makes all the other teams in the league nothing more than cannon fodder and they don't really learn.

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And that scenario is not what happened

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Good to know. Because the scenario sosolisk described is BS.

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You have no clue. The scenario that I described is 100% accurate. A separate poster confirmed above. I know they didn't all play on the same LL team but they are all on the same select team and this was the all-star team already "selected" at the start of the season. Same scenario for all of these good LL all star teams.

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I'm not saying it's BS in the sense that you're lying.

I'm saying it's BS in the sense that if there's going to be one, loaded select team transported wholly into the LL and they're the predesignated All Star team it's BS because the other kids in the league never have a chance to win. They're all just cannon fodder for second place.

Finn Maccumhail said:

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sosolik said:

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Finn Maccumhail said:

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MAROON said:

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Finn Maccumhail said:

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sosolik said:

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chilimuybueno said:

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These kids are selected from their respective teams. Not a predetermined team, but they almost all have personal coaches and may play some select team ball.

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Wrong....they are a select team that plays LL at 12U so they can have this select team makeup their All-Star team. They all do it.

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If these kids are on one team all LL season long and preordained to be the All Star team that's pretty BS IMHO.

Makes all the other teams in the league nothing more than cannon fodder and they don't really learn.

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And that scenario is not what happened

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Good to know. Because the scenario sosolisk described is BS.

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You have no clue. The scenario that I described is 100% accurate. A separate poster confirmed above. I know they didn't all play on the same LL team but they are all on the same select team and this was the all-star team already "selected" at the start of the season. Same scenario for all of these good LL all star teams.

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I'm not saying it's BS in the sense that you're lying.

I'm saying it's BS in the sense that if there's going to be one, loaded select team transported wholly into the LL and they're the predesignated All Star team it's BS because the other kids in the league never have a chance to win. They're all just cannon fodder for second place.

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Gotcha.....my bad

All of the allstar kids are spread out on regular season teams....every kid in the league has a chance to make the all star team if they perform...but most likely, what happens most of the time is that the kids that are the select players perform the highest and end up being the allstar team...but any kid who matures or moves in that can play can make team......I think some folks are thinking the entire teams plays together against other regular season teams which isn't the case....it actually may help the allstar kids as they get to play against each other in the regular season.

sosolik said:

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classof2019 said:

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sosolik said:

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The Milkman said:

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sosolik said:

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This is one of the top select teams in the Houston area for their age group.

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I'd venture to guess its THE top team

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Definitely not but they are up there.

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which team is this? Royals?

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yes

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So on USSSA or nations I dont see that they played any games this spring? What org were they playing in?

that would not surprise me at all. The teams that are populated from LL, tend to play summer and fall. They don't have time to play in the Spring.

classof2019 said:

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sosolik said:

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classof2019 said:

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sosolik said:

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The Milkman said:

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sosolik said:

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This is one of the top select teams in the Houston area for their age group.

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I'd venture to guess its THE top team

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Definitely not but they are up there.

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which team is this? Royals?

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yes

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So on USSSA or nations I dont see that they played any games this spring? What org were they playing in?

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Little League...

When my kids played, about 7-10 yrs ago, the only kids that made the AS team were coaches sons without exception. It was laughable that those coaches overlooked so many more talented kids just so jr. wouldn't cry that he didn't make the AS team. To be fair, some of the coaches had kids that could play but most were average or less at best. I never was coach or assistant, due to my job and travel, but I was at almost every game that they played and helped out more than most at practice and working the fields before and after games.
My oldest son and his best friend both played multiple infield spots & OF, both pitched very well and they both lead our LL in homeruns (8 each) their last year. Neither one of them ever got more than a spot on the AS B team, this team always won more games than the A team did for years.
He played several years on select after LL but he quit after loss of interest, my younger one quit after LL as well.

Finn Maccumhail said:

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FtBendTxAg said:

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I remember when First Colony used to put a good product out. Now that sugar land is basically little New Delhi/Litle Karachi the league is basically dissolved. Once a proud LL with a bunch of teams.

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They probably kick ass at cricket though.

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And math competitions.

chilimuybueno said:

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Hey, Post Oak won! Off to the Bellaire LL tears thread!

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1. This is funny.

2. Bellaire has a good shot in two years. The 10yo team won Texas East, and pretty much beat every team by 10 runs to get there.

Could be but kids change a lot in 2 years

GEA89 said:

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It's a shame Little League is dying because so many crazy parents think their kids are "select" players. There is nothing but good in playing community baseball and then select in the Summer and Fall if you want to. I was an All Star coach at Missouri City Little League back in the day, we were in the same district as Post Oak, Bellaire, West University, Westbury, First Colony, etc. and those district tourneys, a couple I was tourney chairman for as well for different age groups, were the best. Now most of the Little Leagues are a shadow of what they once were due to select baseball pulling more and more kids away. Select used to mean select, now it just means tournament baseball, and Little Leagues across the country are being affected. Little League is good for baseball in general, I hope it surges back but I worry the toothpaste is out of the tube here. I am sure old Charlie Fox is loving one of his districts teams doing well where he is looking from up high. Man I miss those old times.

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I was on the board of WULL and coached All Star teams every year but one while my son was in the league. My first All Star tournament was 9 year olds at Missouri City. Man you talk about being a nervous wreck! We ended up losing the district championship to FCA that year...the only year we didn't win district with that group of kids.

You guys always put on a good tournament. I spent a lot of time with Charlie over the years. In sectionals when we were 10's we had to play a day game at WU. It was scorching. I look in my dugout and Ol' Charlie is in their draping cold towels on our players. Good guy who cared for the Little League brand.

Little League has not died in West U. Still a big big community thing. Heck most of my friends in the community today are guys I met up at the ball fields. Would not change that experience for all the tournaments at Baseball USA, Big League Dreams, etc, etc.

Fun times.

Was indeed. It came down to us and Post Oak every year and we split it 50/50. My son went on and pitched for HBU, had a really nice game against A&M a couple years ago, and as fun as all that was I miss the Little League days.

I

Been watching the games and I think these kids should be playing on a 50/70 field vs 46/60...they are playing on the same dimensions as 8/9 year olds. Get a big kid with a great fastball and the batters have no chance...extra 4 feet could help at least a little.

I don't necessarily think that "parents living vicariously through kid" is a huge factor. There is and always has been some of that, but I think its more about the fact that people who have some extra money now are perfectly willing to throw it away for any miniscule perceived advantage in terms of paying for the best possible "things" for their kids.

JJxvi said:

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I don't necessarily think that "parents living vicariously through kid" is a huge factor. There is and always has been some of that, but I think its more about the fact that people who have some extra money now are perfectly willing to throw it away for any miniscule perceived advantage in terms of paying for the best possible "things" for their kids.

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Yup. For whatever reason, there are willing consumers. And where there are suckers willing to part with their dollars, there are opportunists ready and able to make a buck. I suspect that "select" sports (or whatever, really) are just going to continue to grow and siphon disposable income.

Interesting anecdote: I have a friend that works in the Dynamo front office. He's heavily involved in the Dynamo youth academy. These are young players that are the real, actual talent. Apparently, most of them come from a wide socioeconomic spectrum, not just from parents that have money. The same is probably true in baseball (and every other sport that is inching toward the club/pay-to-play model): talent is talent.

schmellba99 said:

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GEA89 said:

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It's a shame Little League is dying because so many crazy parents think their kids are "select" players. There is nothing but good in playing community baseball and then select in the Summer and Fall if you want to. I was an All Star coach at Missouri City Little League back in the day, we were in the same district as Post Oak, Bellaire, West University, Westbury, First Colony, etc. and those district tourneys, a couple I was tourney chairman for as well for different age groups, were the best. Now most of the Little Leagues are a shadow of what they once were due to select baseball pulling more and more kids away. Select used to mean select, now it just means tournament baseball, and Little Leagues across the country are being affected. Little League is good for baseball in general, I hope it surges back but I worry the toothpaste is out of the tube here. I am sure old Charlie Fox is loving one of his districts teams doing well where he is looking from up high. Man I miss those old times.

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Select means "parents throwing a hissy fit because their son or daughter didn't get picked like they thought they should" and "if you can fork out the money, you can be on a select team" more than anything these days.

My daughter plays softball - we stick to rec league only because she isn't good enough, doesn't have the desire and I sure as F am not going to be that dad that forks out thousands of dollars to play in tournaments every weekend. Every single year we see more and more kids going "select" and the result is the rec league gets smaller and smaller and less fun. Our league should have about 8 or 10 teams in the 10U bracket, but we had 3 last year. One of the teams this year has decided to go select, and one of the teams moving up is probably going select this year as well. We might have 3 teams if all of the leftover kids end up playing, but odds are we'll only have 2. We may end up being a casualty of the way things work and my daughter ends up not playing at all.

It really sucks. The old model was the right way to go, but it's been absolutely cannibalized now - mostly by parents trying to live vicariously through their kids.

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There is some truth in this, but quite frankly once your child reaches a certain ability then rec regresses the child and their ability. In your situation where your daughter just want to play the games a season and practice once a week, then rec is best. If your daughter had a desire to persue further, then select is a better fit, more games and more practices to get better. Also, you don't have to spend thousand of dollars to play select, a lot of the select teams play locally and twice a month, so there is no travel and the dues are low.

There's a double-edged sword to youth sports. On the one hand you don't want to take it too seriously but on the other you also don't want your kids to have the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. I'm not sure of the exact point but there comes a time when kids have to understand winning and losing and how to handle each with grace.

I do think that baseball, more than any other team sport, is one where these select teams can help at an early age. The reason being that technique is almost important as raw athletic talent. At a young age you often see kids with the talent but no grounding in fundamentals or kids with minimal talent but good fundamentals and both can be successful early on. However there comes a point where all the fundamentals in the world won't help a kid who doesn't have the arm to throw from third to first while all the athletic talent in the world won't help a kid with poor fundamentals strike out all the time because of their stance & swing. What I've seen in a lot of select is the access to better coaching and more of it to drill those fundamentals into kids and then the athletic ability either is there or not.

I will say, I went to go see a good friend's son play in the 6A baseball playoffs this year. He graduated from Atascocita and will be playing at Alvin CC (which is a pretty strong juco program). They played Cy-Ranch (who made it to the state tournament) and the level of talent and sound fundamentals from these two teams was pretty shockingly high IMHO. I was a decent HS baseball player (now I'm just a has-been ex-jock) but I played with a bunch of guys who played D1 college and while none made the majors several played high minor league ball- anyway, these two HS teams would have smoked my HS team. It was pretty clear that they'd developed through the select ball ranks.

I will say the issues that caused me to reconsider select for my older boy are largely related to coaching.

Firstly, he's played "city league" for 3 seasons (1 fall and the past 2 spring seasons). The 2 spring seasons we and his buddy's family (Mrs. Finn and I are friends with the parents) requested our boys be on the same team if possible. The league makes it clear that try-outs and the "draft" take precedent and then they'll try to place kids on the same team if requested. Well, it's abundantly clear that the reverse is true.

I won't say that both boys are the tops in the league but if there were an all star team they'd both likely make it. However, both of the past 2 spring seasons they've been put on the same team and only after the draft and the teams were made up did the league call me and the other kid's dad because the team didn't have a coach so he and I have stepped up to coach.

And frankly, I'm not that good at it. I can teach basic fundamentals but if the kids won't pay attention I simply don't have the patience. But even more frustrating is that you're basically herding cats- the proverbial kids picking daisies or simply spacing out. And then there are the kids who's parents evidently never tell the kid "no" so they're a snotty little brat. Never mind the fact that people wouldn't even bother to show up for practices and then complain that their little angel wasn't showing improvement.

Basically, it was the poor administration of the league and dealing with the crappy parents of kids who didn't really want to be out there. Even my kid and his buddy would get upset that people wouldn't show up to practice or pay attention. I about lost it when one parent got mad at me because their kid who wasn't paying attention caught a weak line drive to the face that bloodied his nose.

GoAgs92 said:

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Been watching the games and I think these kids should be playing on a 50/70 field vs 46/60...they are playing on the same dimensions as 8/9 year olds. Get a big kid with a great fastball and the batters have no chance...extra 4 feet could help at least a little.

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look at the kid NM had with 22Ks in 7 2/3 Innings. Now his parents are friends so I'm happy for him, but this are stupid numbers

JJxvi said:

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Baseball is particularly weird. You definitely get better with good coaching, solid fundamentals, a better understanding of the complexities of the game etc that higher level coaching will get you. You will be a much better ballplayer with good coaching than you are with bad.

The funny part about it is that I have yet to see a baseball tryout of any serious kind where the coaches didn't get almost all the information they need to build their team by seeing how fast everybody runs a sprint, seeing how hard everybody throws from third to first (or from the mound, or outfield to the plate, etc), and seeing how hard they hit some dude throwing 50 mph meatballs. Basically, it almost always seems like an either you got it or you dont type thing, and if you do we can teach you before the real games start.

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Hitting and throwing? When I was drafting in Spring Klein, you could pick out the athletic ones just by watching how they walked up to the batter's box.

Win At Life said:

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JJxvi said:

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Baseball is particularly weird. You definitely get better with good coaching, solid fundamentals, a better understanding of the complexities of the game etc that higher level coaching will get you. You will be a much better ballplayer with good coaching than you are with bad.

The funny part about it is that I have yet to see a baseball tryout of any serious kind where the coaches didn't get almost all the information they need to build their team by seeing how fast everybody runs a sprint, seeing how hard everybody throws from third to first (or from the mound, or outfield to the plate, etc), and seeing how hard they hit some dude throwing 50 mph meatballs. Basically, it almost always seems like an either you got it or you dont type thing, and if you do we can teach you before the real games start.

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Hitting and throwing? When I was drafting in Spring Klein, you could pick out the athletic ones just by watching how they walked up to the batter's box.

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I'm not just talking youth baseball, but pretty much every level. You try out for club baseball at A&M, or an adult league team, or go to a camp or all-star day for high school kids with JUCO coaches, or whatever. How fast do you run, how hard do you throw, how hard do you hit is the basic format. You'll never be judged on any kind of technique or fundamental or actual baseball knowledge or instincts from what I've seen.

The select team system probably allows scouts to watch a lot more competitive baseball than they'd get otherwise, which helps on that front to see which kids are actually the best ballplayers. But in any kind of quick tryout, scouting camp, or make the team type situation, what kind of coaching you got as a youth prior to that is basically only gonna be boiled down to did it help you run faster or throw harder, IMO.

Quote:

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There is some truth in this, but quite frankly once your child reaches a certain ability then rec regresses the child and their ability. In your situation where your daughter just want to play the games a season and practice once a week, then rec is best. If your daughter had a desire to persue further, then select is a better fit, more games and more practices to get better. Also, you don't have to spend thousand of dollars to play select, a lot of the select teams play locally and twice a month, so there is no travel and the dues are low.

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I don't disagree, but my counter argument would be that the decline in rec is a result of the increase in select teams.

Back in the day in baseball you had LL, Babe Ruth and if you were a really good player you got invited to try out for the American Legion squad in the area. If you were good enough to make that team, odds are you were the top 1% or better. Almost everybody I played with that made the AL team ended up playing in college, in the minors and a few in the show.

I still contend that the advancement of select teams and leagues stems primarily as a result of players who were better than most, but not good enough to make the Legion type teams wanting to find something other than rec ball. I'm sure I have a jaded view because I simply dislike the way youth sports of today is.

I know for a fact my daughter is average at best at softball. Hell, she's probably a smidge below average in athletic talent. She has a great attitude and loves to play, but the girl just doesn't have the skills. It is what it is. She's been invited to all stars 2x now - didn't make the cut for our local league (that team was pre-determined before the season started - typical small town politics) but other leagues asked. We played one season this year of all stars, it was great for her self esteem and the extra practice time was awesome. She was invited to try out for a couple of the select teams - not because she has the talent, but because frankly they want the rosters filled with parents that are going to fund the team. Yeah, not happening with us.

I want her to continue to play, and have suffered through being a coach as a result. But I want her to play ball and if she earns post season playing time, that's all her doing and I'll be as proud as can be. But I want it to be because she's a good player and teammate, not because they need a roster spot filled or somebody to split bills with. And, frankly, my limited exposure to anything select tells me that a whole lot of it is the latter two. Not my thing, and I honestly think it has permanently changed kids sports and IMO not necessarily for the better. I fully agree that there are some really good aspects of select, but they are overshadowed IMO with the rest of the fodder associated with them. Just my outlook.

I hear you and agree, the statement you made about the All-star team already being determined is the exact reason that a lot of players are now playing select. There are different levels of select and the vast majority of the lower level select teams are as a result of what you said about the all-star team. You are right select is killing rec leagues, but rec leagues own a large share of that responsibility. My daughters were going to stay one more season in rec about a year and a half ago, but when one of them almost killed a kid on a hit during a practice, we knew it was time to "move up". They are by no stretch great players, they are good that have made dramatic strides since being in select.

The article in the paper about the team said, "the bulk of this group has played baseball together for about five years"

Now that's commitment to making it to the LLWS.

I got a kid that plays high level select 12u baseball. You have two options. Play select(USAAA or nations) or play little league.

The little league time keep the kids on their league rosters to keep it all official but on the weekends they play similar tournaments that are unsanctioned that are very similar to a select tournament. We played the pearland team in one of theses unrecorded tournaments with there all stars and little league rules. They had been peeping for the llws for 2 years.

Bottom line. All theses boys have been playing together since 6 years old. Week spots are replaced with good players.

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