sushi94 said:

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Who actually physically removed the man? Was it United Security? is there such a thing? Airport Security at United's request? TSA? Whoever made the decision to physically remove the man is in trouble in my opinion.

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I believe it was Chicago PD. United asked them to get involved because the doctor refused to give up his seat.

If a customer is breaking the law, sure, get police to throw them off the plane. If a customer is refusing to "volunteer" to be kicked off the plane, that seems like an issue that should remain with United.

Either way, Chicago PD was asked to get involved at the direction of United employees. There is almost no way for United to save face on this one.

themissinglink said:

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Ag83 said:

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sushi94 said:

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Who actually physically removed the man? Was it United Security? is there such a thing? Airport Security at United's request? TSA? Whoever made the decision to physically remove the man is in trouble in my opinion.

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Apparently the police. One thing's for sure, as badly as United handled this, when the police show up and tell you too get off, you'd best do it. No chance he was going to win that battle.

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I generally agree with you, but If I'm a doctor and taking a later flight could mean the death of a patient, I might refuse. I'm sure the doctor "needing to see patients" angle is played up on this incident, but United playing the "it's in our policy" card is not going to save face.

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You can [try to] refuse all you want, but the police are not just going to say "ok" and walk away. They are going to use whatever force is necessary to remove you. And I find it hard to believe he couldn't make arrangements with the hospital to cover his absence - what if the flight had to be cancelled due to mechanical issues or weather?

I do not want to leave the impression that I am defending United here, or that the police didn't use excessive force (not sure on that). I've flown United exactly once in my whole life (and surprisingly had no issues/complaints) but I know their reputation and it seems well earned. I avoid them to the greatest extent possible which fortunately, for me anyway, isn't too difficult. But when the police show up and tell you to get off, you're going to be getting off one way or another whether you want to or not.

Ag83 said:

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themissinglink said:

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Ag83 said:

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sushi94 said:

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Who actually physically removed the man? Was it United Security? is there such a thing? Airport Security at United's request? TSA? Whoever made the decision to physically remove the man is in trouble in my opinion.

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Apparently the police. One thing's for sure, as badly as United handled this, when the police show up and tell you too get off, you'd best do it. No chance he was going to win that battle.

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I generally agree with you, but If I'm a doctor and taking a later flight could mean the death of a patient, I might refuse. I'm sure the doctor "needing to see patients" angle is played up on this incident, but United playing the "it's in our policy" card is not going to save face.

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You can [try to] refuse all you want, but the police are not just going to say "ok" and walk away. They are going to use whatever force is necessary to remove you. And I find it hard to believe he couldn't make arrangements with the hospital to cover his absence - what if the flight had to be cancelled due to mechanical issues or weather?

I do not want to leave the impression that I am defending United here, or that the police didn't use excessive force (not sure on that). I've flown United exactly once in my whole life (and surprisingly had no issues/complaints) but I know their reputation and it seems well earned. I avoid them to the greatest extent possible which fortunately, for me anyway, isn't too difficult. But when the police show up and tell you to get off, you're going to be getting off one way or another whether you want to or not.

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I think we're in agreement, but United should train employees to be decent, reasonable human beings. If someone says "I'm a doctor and need to see patients", good excuse. We could challenge it, but I'm sure we can find some poor vacationer or business traveller who can take the next flight. Next person. "I'm a business traveller who wants to get home to see my kids", bumped. My preference is that United be required to keep increasing the voucher amount until someone agrees. Let the market decide the cost of inconviencing me.

The problem with what United did is that now people who are involuntarily bumped will refuse to get off the plane and let the police forcibly remove them. People posting images of your bloodied customer's face all over the internet is a lot more costly than a $1,300 check or whatever it would have cost them to get someone else to volunteer.

Just a guess, but I'd bet the flight wasn't overbooked until some irresponsible airline employees realized they needed the flight.

But still, I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for the doctor. To paraphrase a wise man, if the police have to come and get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them.

wessimo said:

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I might have agreed but this dude is most likely looking at a seven figure payday for getting roughed up a little. I'd take that option in a heartbeat.

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I highly doubt that occurs

Airlines will never stop overbooking

BMX Bandit said:

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aggiebq03+ said:

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If the cops come for me, I'll ask them if I'm under arrest. If not, they can piss off. They can't detain me or lawfully take me off a plane because some idiot at United doesn't know how many damn seats are on their plane. I have a ticketed seat I paid for and was assigned.

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Actually, yes they can take you off the plane if the airline tells them you won't voluntarily get off.

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Can they? Yes. Should they? No. Increasing the voluntary compensation to whatever will get people off the airplane is cheaper than seeing someone's bloody face all over the internet.

BMX Bandit said:

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aggiebq03+ said:

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If the cops come for me, I'll ask them if I'm under arrest. If not, they can piss off. They can't detain me or lawfully take me off a plane because some idiot at United doesn't know how many damn seats are on their plane. I have a ticketed seat I paid for and was assigned.

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Actually, yes they can take you off the plane if the airline tells them you won't voluntarily get off.

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And it will end in a PR nightmare just like this incident did.

Edit to add - Except people will care even more because I know how to take video in landscape mode on my phone.

This guy will get his, United was wrong, even if they were within their rights, they will never find a jury who would support them. If this happened to me I'd have the Today Show, TMZ, and every other news show on my schedule then I'd send an extremely broad document request, along with 8 figure settlement offer. He could make the discovery process cost 10 million by itself.

BMX Bandit said:

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aggiebq03+ said:

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If the cops come for me, I'll ask them if I'm under arrest. If not, they can piss off. They can't detain me or lawfully take me off a plane because some idiot at United doesn't know how many damn seats are on their plane. I have a ticketed seat I paid for and was assigned.

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Actually, yes they can take you off the plane if the airline tells them you won't voluntarily get off.

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They will earn their pay carrying 240 lbs. of dead weight off of the plane.

Bassmaster said:

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The stupidity on United's part is baffling. There is a pretty easy solution here, just increase the offer above $800 until you have 4 takers. It may cost you a little bit, but much less than it will cost you by dragging a guy off of the plane.

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The smart thing to do would have been to make the offer, if no takers volunterred, go charter a private flight for your crew on a separate plane. Its a fuggin airport - planes are easy to come by there. Cheaper than this mess by a long shot.

This just seems like somebody won the lotto on being a complete dumbass.

The Dr. was one guy. They boarded 4 employees. Who were the other three that got off?
The only thing unusual here is that the guy was on the plane already. They "un-voluntarily remove" people from planes all the time pre-board. It has happened to me. You can get as mad as you want but you are gone.

If it was the police that roughed him up what basis would he have to go after United? That he was wrongly asked to exit the plane?

Not all heros wear capes...

104.7 was reporting that in the terms and agreement when purchasing a ticket, a passenger agrees to being removed from a flight if the seats are needed by crew. So, United was well within their rights to remove passengers for staff.

Still pretty crappy and ol' Asian dude didn't handle it very well, but there it is.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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This guy will get his, United was wrong, even if they were within their rights, they will never find a jury who would support them. If this happened to me I'd have the Today Show, TMZ, and every other news show on my schedule then I'd send an extremely broad document request, along with 8 figure settlement offer. He could make the discovery process cost 10 million by itself.

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8 figure settlement offer for a busted lip and no wrong doing on the side of the airline? Good luck.