Bryan making decision behind closed Doors to close Park Hudson Disc Golf Course

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91_Aggie
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10:49a, 2/11/24
AG
Here's a full story from kbtx that is better than before.
When the city staff was asked about the alleged injury they wouldn't give details hiding behind fake HIPAA reasoning




https://www.kbtx.com/2024/02/11/hudson-park-disc-golf-course-close/?fbclid=IwAR20kZdCdXQA1Zxb3YyemCpE7KnYO4ZEzRbZi-o9qI_cjFFWHR9JLtuKW78
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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Stupe • 10:50a, 2/11/24
AG
Stupe said:
Are there any signs out there stating that it's private property?

I'm not a lawsuit person, but that might be harassment.

Yeah if she had come up to me I would have gotten her named and reported her for harrassment
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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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Aggie71013
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11:19a, 2/11/24
AG
Sounds like the city should have found ways to resolve the issues without shutting down the course, but if I lived next to the park I'd also be concerned with people peeing on the course and this:

"Then we started getting complaints about discs on roofs, discs going into backyards, and golfers jumping fences to retrieve discs. Discs that remained on roofs because folks couldn't get up to the roofs to get them down," said Walker."

It's one thing to knowingly buy a house on a golf course or disc golf course, but to have people hopping your fence and entering your property for a course that was not in place when you bought the house would concern me.
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Stupe
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11:38a, 2/11/24
S
Quote:
"Then we started getting complaints about discs on roofs, discs going into backyards, and golfers jumping fences to retrieve discs. Discs that remained on roofs because folks couldn't get up to the roofs to get them down," said Walker."
That is a good way to get hurt by a homeowner.
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wareagle044
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In reply to Aggie71013 • 2:53p, 2/11/24
Aggie71013 said:
Sounds like the city should have found ways to resolve the issues without shutting down the course, but if I lived next to the park I'd also be concerned with people peeing on the course and this:

"Then we started getting complaints about discs on roofs, discs going into backyards, and golfers jumping fences to retrieve discs. Discs that remained on roofs because folks couldn't get up to the roofs to get them down," said Walker."

It's one thing to knowingly buy a house on a golf course or disc golf course, but to have people hopping your fence and entering your property for a course that was not in place when you bought the house would concern me.


I don't believe the city. Where were these reasons the first time shutting down was questioned? Seems suspect to me, honestly.

I don't know many dudes who haven't peed in the woods in a public space - not that it should be condoned but nature calls and you gotta do what you gotta do. I have a hard time believing it's a daily or even regular occurence
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Aggie71013 • 3:04p, 2/11/24
AG
Aggie71013 said:
Sounds like the city should have found ways to resolve the issues without shutting down the course, but if I lived next to the park I'd also be concerned with people peeing on the course and this:

"Then we started getting complaints about discs on roofs, discs going into backyards, and golfers jumping fences to retrieve discs. Discs that remained on roofs because folks couldn't get up to the roofs to get them down," said Walker."

It's one thing to knowingly buy a house on a golf course or disc golf course, but to have people hopping your fence and entering your property for a course that was not in place when you bought the house would concern me.
There is one single house where discs would go in the yard and possibly on his Roof.
And the people involved with the course have proposed a FULL solution to that. It would completely eliminate that issue.
but the city never responded. The city is just trying to appease one troublemaker instead of doing what is right and what benefits the many.

Essentially all this "outrage" is from one person.





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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Stupe • 3:30p, 2/11/24
AG
Stupe said:
Quote:
"Then we started getting complaints about discs on roofs, discs going into backyards, and golfers jumping fences to retrieve discs. Discs that remained on roofs because folks couldn't get up to the roofs to get them down," said Walker."
That is a good way to get hurt by a homeowner.
yeah, the leaders of the club and the owner of the Armory have been trying to get out the message to everyone previously that "if you throw your disc in a yard, consider it lost and leave it be"

But not everyone who plays is local or member of local club.

Again, there is a very simple solution that completely eliminates this issue and it had been proposed to the city but they never responded.

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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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Stupe
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 3:51p, 2/11/24
S
What is the simple issue? Or did I miss that somewhere on the thread?
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91_Aggie
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In reply to Stupe • 4:15p, 2/11/24
AG
Stupe said:
What is the simple issue? Or did I miss that somewhere on the thread?


Simple solution is to move a tee pad on hole 12 forward about 300 feet. There is really only one house that could be hit by really bad throws on the course.

So moving 12 forward past that house solves the reported issue.

However my opinion is that the real issue the person has is more than just a disc landing in his yard and has more to do with more people using the park

I still have no.idea how some players could actually hit the yard since it has to be a really horrible throw
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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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BiochemAg97
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 4:22p, 2/11/24
AG
[Add to the discussion and be respectful or stay off of the thread. -Staff]
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91_Aggie
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4:33p, 2/11/24
AG
Stupe

Here's a screenshot of the hole in Question.
the rectangle at the bottom is the current tee pad.

The people with Armory and the citizens who worked with the Parks department on the design have said "we would be happy to move that Tee Pad 300' feet forward to eliminate any possibility of landing in a homeowner's lawn."
The city never responded to that solution. And if they say to reporters or in public that they have responded, then that is not true.

I'll leave it to reader to deduce which house is affected.





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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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91_Aggie
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4:56p, 2/11/24
AG
I want to be fully transparent to make sure the full impact to homeowners is seen in an objective manner

Here's a screenshot of the entire course.
As you can see most of the course is FAR FAR AWAY from most houses



There are only 3 areas were discs could be thrown horribly awry and end up in homeowners yards.
Below are close ups of those areas and explanations
One piece of information is that Tiffany Park was already home to a 6 hole disc golf course that has existed for MANY years already, which comes into play for 2 of the three areas.

This is hole #7 that parallels 3 houses to the right. It is possible on a poor throw that a disc could get into one of those 3 yards. it would be a very rare throw that got into one of those yards.

But this hole already existed for years in the 6 hole Tiffany park disc golf course and there was nary a complaint in the years it was there.




Next Hole near houses is hole 10 shown below (also this hole existed like it does today in theTiffany Park with nary a complaint for years)

It really would have to be a bad throw to get into those yards. It could happen but it would be rare.



And in previous post you see the new hole 12 that is impacting a single house on the course.

The simple solution proposed for that is to move the tee pad forward 300 feet. It's already a 1000' long Par 5 and 700 feet on other courses is par 4 or par 5.
this was proposed.


In the spirit of full disclosure, Hole #3 could be considered a potential issue since it crosses a sidewalk, which could be a danger area if someone threw a disc while someone was on a sidewalk (although that would have to be a very immature player who was not following guidelines of disc golf)

this was also proposed as a solution to move that basket to a safe location on the southside of the sidewalk.



I will let everyone make their own deductions about the true nature of the complaints.
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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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91_Aggie
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4:58p, 2/11/24
AG
Hopefully it is obvious that there is only 1 home affected by this new course.

The houses on holes 7 and 10 already were affected by the original Tiffany park course that has been there for years. Both those are exactly the same as they were before the Park Hudson extension.

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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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woodometer
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5:58p, 2/11/24
AG
I dont have a dog in this hunt other than as a Bryan tax payer I helped pay for this course. First time I have seen a map of the entire course and I am impressed with the layout. I'll never use the course but this looks like good use of this park land. I have heard the name of the homeowner that allegedly is the main complainant and none of this surprises me. I hate to see people lose their jobs over mistakes but the tax payers are out $50,000 because someone didnt do their job. $50,000 may not be much in the grand scheme of wasteful government spending but I think at the very least the City Manager owes the taxpayers a public apology. Whatever that is worth.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to woodometer • 6:18p, 2/11/24
AG
woodometer said:
I dont have a dog in this hunt other than as a Bryan tax payer I helped pay for this course. First time I have seen a map of the entire course and I am impressed with the layout. I'll never use the course but this looks like good use of this park land. I have heard the name of the homeowner that allegedly is the main complainant and none of this surprises me. I hate to see people lose their jobs over mistakes but the tax payers are out $50,000 because someone didnt do their job. $50,000 may not be much in the grand scheme of wasteful government spending but I think at the very least the City Manager owes the taxpayers a public apology. Whatever that is worth.


It Is an awesome course that makes me cry sometimes

Best course In the area and Bryan should be proud to have it.

The A&M disc golf team uses it for training. Whomever is speaking for the city to KBTX and The Eagle and saying "we will look for an alternate site" truly does not understand what a gem this course is.
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"91_Aggie is right again." -YankeeAg00
"91a: You are so classy." -abl
"and i find myself agreeing with 91 yet again..." -Gramercy Riffs
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woodometer
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11:31a, 2/16/24
AG
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?
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Hornbeck
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In reply to woodometer • 4:24p, 2/16/24
AG
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?


Cue the crack journalists surfing texags… the people wanna know.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to woodometer • 9:34p, 2/16/24
AG
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?


So the course is still open, but holes 3, 9, 10, 12 are closed.
3 has a sidewalk that has to be thrown across
9 and 10 and 12 are where errant throws could end up in yards of the neighborhood where the complaints are coming from.

City hasn't made a decision fully yet so there is time for all sides to be heard.

Those 4 holes can be reconfigured to completely eliminate the chance of throws that could be dangerous or into yards, or roofs or hit a house.

That would resolve all the voiced complaints

And we are happy that College Station city staff and council are excited about adding disc golf course(s) so if worst case happens in Park Hudson other solutions could be available.
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woodiewood
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In reply to wareagle044 • 4:44p, 2/17/24
wareagle044 said:
If the urination in public thing is such a problem out there -- sounds like a revenue opportunity for the city to write citations against.

How much would it cost to put a small men's/women's room and drink refill station at the 9th tee box? Seems that ideas should be kicked around the improve the park as opposed to take away from it.
Why would the city put a course on a park that takes the players hours to play without bathroom facilities. Put a maintained porta potty near the 9th and 18th hole.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to woodiewood • 5:45p, 2/17/24
AG
woodiewood said:
wareagle044 said:
If the urination in public thing is such a problem out there -- sounds like a revenue opportunity for the city to write citations against.

How much would it cost to put a small men's/women's room and drink refill station at the 9th tee box? Seems that ideas should be kicked around the improve the park as opposed to take away from it.
Why would the city put a course on a park that takes the players hours to play without bathroom facilities. Put a maintained porta potty near the 9th and 18th hole.


It's about 90 minutes to play and there is a bathroom near hole 9
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woodiewood
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5:46p, 2/17/24
No dog in this fight, but it appears that a few homeowners have developed the idea that city parks are for the persons living nearby and don't want anyone coming in from other areas using them. Not uncommon thoughts at all.

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woodiewood
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 5:49p, 2/17/24
91_Aggie said:
woodiewood said:
wareagle044 said:
If the urination in public thing is such a problem out there -- sounds like a revenue opportunity for the city to write citations against.

How much would it cost to put a small men's/women's room and drink refill station at the 9th tee box? Seems that ideas should be kicked around the improve the park as opposed to take away from it.
Why would the city put a course on a park that takes the players hours to play without bathroom facilities. Put a maintained porta potty near the 9th and 18th hole.


It's about 90 minutes to play and there is a bathroom near hole 9
Didn't know that. Then there is really no excuse for urinating in the park.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to woodiewood • 5:58p, 2/17/24
AG
woodiewood said:
91_Aggie said:
woodiewood said:
wareagle044 said:
If the urination in public thing is such a problem out there -- sounds like a revenue opportunity for the city to write citations against.

How much would it cost to put a small men's/women's room and drink refill station at the 9th tee box? Seems that ideas should be kicked around the improve the park as opposed to take away from it.
Why would the city put a course on a park that takes the players hours to play without bathroom facilities. Put a maintained porta potty near the 9th and 18th hole.


It's about 90 minutes to play and there is a bathroom near hole 9
Didn't know that. Then there is really no excuse for urinating in the park.


Well bad planning and not knowing where that bathroom is... there is going to be people in any group that ruin it for everyone
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The Good Ag Rock 88
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2:27p, 2/19/24
Has anyone been out there and seen the Park? Evidently bulldozers came out and cut large pathways, all the trees- shrubs are gone? The area where the butterflies used to be, is now one of the Disc Golf Holes? Who did this? Did someone conduct an environmental study of this area before it was ploughed over? I could not find any of the animals, but I saw all of the signs. This is very sad. Park Hudson is ruined.
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EliteElectric
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In reply to woodometer • 2:32p, 2/19/24
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?
The hole closest Copperfield Drive still had it's basket up as of an hour ago so my guess would be no
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91_Aggie
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In reply to The Good Ag Rock 88 • 2:36p, 2/19/24
AG
The Good Ag Rock 88 said:
Has anyone been out there and seen the Park? Evidently bulldozers came out and cut large pathways, all the trees- shrubs are gone? The area where the butterflies used to be, is now one of the Disc Golf Holes? Who did this? Did someone conduct an environmental study of this area before it was ploughed over? I could not find any of the animals, but I saw all of the signs. This is very sad. Park Hudson is ruined.


I will disagree with the statement that "the park is ruined."
The places that are cleared are where no would really see

Others should go and view on their own and make their own opinion. Plenty of wild space and I get startled by deer running through the fairways at least once every visit.

The wild hogs.are still out there based in the rooting evidence in the fairways.

And it is a park in the middle of the city... it is not like it is Lick Creek and meant to be a full-on nature preserve.

And trust me, it is still heavily wooded all the scratches I get from having to crawl through the woods to my poorly thrown discs will attest

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91_Aggie
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In reply to EliteElectric • 2:46p, 2/19/24
AG
EliteElectric said:
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?
The hole closest Copperfield Drive still had it's basket up as of an hour ago so my guess would be no


There were 4 holes removed
#3 this near the main entrance to park off hwy 30. It required throws across a sidewalk.

#9. The basket is near the sidewalk in Tiffany Park. Overthrown would have a chance to land in yards of the neighborhood where complaints came from. This same hole as was there before Park Hudson extension.

#10: again same configuration that was there for years. It parallel houses/yards from the neighborhood where complaints came from

#12: this one is a long straightway 1000' feet long. The tee pad is in far left of the fairway but people were still managing to throw bad enough to land in a certain yard or hit that certain house.

I know on Sunday the designers walked the course with at least two city council persons and they had a goof discussion.about the problem holes and designers were able provide alternate ideas for those 4 holes

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Tailgate88
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 3:00p, 2/19/24
AG
91_Aggie said:
EliteElectric said:
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?
The hole closest Copperfield Drive still had it's basket up as of an hour ago so my guess would be no


There were 4 holes removed
#3 this near the main entrance to park off hwy 30. It required throws across a sidewalk.

#9. The basket is near the sidewalk in Tiffany Park. Overthrown would have a chance to land in yards of the neighborhood where complaints came from. This same hole as was there before Park Hudson extension.

#10: again same configuration that was there for years. It parallel houses/yards from the neighborhood where complaints came from

#12: this one is a long straightway 1000' feet long. The tee pad is in far left of the fairway but people were still managing to throw bad enough to land in a certain yard or hit that certain house.

I know on Sunday the designers walked the course with at least two city council persons and they had a goof discussion.about the problem holes and designers were able provide alternate ideas for those 4 holes

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EliteElectric
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 3:43p, 2/19/24
91_Aggie said:
EliteElectric said:
woodometer said:
So did the city take down all of the baskets and close the course as they said they were going to?
The hole closest Copperfield Drive still had it's basket up as of an hour ago so my guess would be no


There were 4 holes removed
**snip**
Ok well I saw the one you can see from CD so just assumed. My bad.
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The Good Ag Rock 88
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4:02p, 2/19/24
Well,

An Environmental Impact Statement / Study is cannot be found in the City of Bryan-Documents or in any of the Brazos County Documents of record. You all may want to look at: Environmental impact statement - Wikipedia ; I also checked the State of Texas website. Yes, someone was supposed to complete this environmental study, and no one did.

This is similar to the problem at my home in College Station, they are tearing up the street in front of my house for a sewage pipeline and drainage ditches. They will have to take out a lot of trees and personal gardens.
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The Good Ag Rock 88
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4:10p, 2/19/24
There were a group of senior citizens / elderly ladies from a local Bird Watchers Group out at Park Hudson last weekend. Did anyone talk to them? They were taking pictures in the woods near the Dog Park.
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91_Aggie
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In reply to The Good Ag Rock 88 • 5:06p, 2/19/24
AG
The Good Ag Rock 88 said:
Well,

An Environmental Impact Statement / Study is cannot be found in the City of Bryan-Documents or in any of the Brazos County Documents of record. You all may want to look at: Environmental impact statement - Wikipedia ; I also checked the State of Texas website. Yes, someone was supposed to complete this environmental study, and no one did.

This is similar to the problem at my home in College Station, they are tearing up the street in front of my house for a sewage pipeline and drainage ditches. They will have to take out a lot of trees and personal gardens.
I read through that wikipedia article and it seems related to Federal actions. and for huge project.

here's the critical language:

Quote:
An environmental impact statement (EIS), under United States environmental law, is a document required by the 1969 National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) for certain actions "significantly affecting the quality of the human environment"

I bolded and italicized the pertinent sections.

In this case, there was already a park here and amenities were added to it.
IANAL but adding amenities to a park not "significantly affect the quality of the human environment"

and you will see it also says "certain actions"

Maybe you are an expert in this field and I'm making too simple.

examples they gave where this came into play and change actions were about Interstates being built and the pathways they needed to take to not affect the quality of the human environment.


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ags4rocks
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In reply to 91_Aggie • 8:44a, 2/20/24
AG
I doubt this park falls under a "federal action" so a EIS would not be required at that level..
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EL ag
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10:24a, 2/20/24
I agree that Park Hudson has been ruined with all the bulldozing etc. The original purpose of this park was developed to provide residents who live in the community with a tranquil, densely wooded, natural habitat with abundant wildlife and established nature trail for walking, jogging, and biking for the past 15 years and the majority of the folks I see are walkers and joggers. An environmental impact statement would be necessary per TCEQ. It looks like the City of Bryan did not do their homework and furthermore ignored the residents that live around that area. Not sure where anyone will park when there are large tournaments. It seems like the City Council did not know what their own departments were doing.....
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wareagle044
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12:51p, 2/20/24
Here We Go. Rookies making themselves known.

Looks like lots of parking around County Park Ct to accommodate tournaments.

Since the park is not part of the area HOA, it would seem in order for Bryan to do their due diligence - even residents who don't live in the area should have input

I don't know how many times I've been to that dog park and been the only person there. It's good to see the park filling up.
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