Bryan making decision behind closed Doors to close Park Hudson Disc Golf Course

24,733 Views | 151 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Tibbers
BiochemAg97
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EL ag said:

I agree that Park Hudson has been ruined with all the bulldozing etc. The original purpose of this park was developed to provide residents who live in the community with a tranquil, densely wooded, natural habitat with abundant wildlife and established nature trail for walking, jogging, and biking for the past 15 years and the majority of the folks I see are walkers and joggers. An environmental impact statement would be necessary per TCEQ. It looks like the City of Bryan did not do their homework and furthermore ignored the residents that live around that area. Not sure where anyone will park when there are large tournaments. It seems like the City Council did not know what their own departments were doing.....


Maybe I misunderstand the scope of work done at Park Hudson, but installing a disc golf course (clearing some trees, installing some footpaths, and putting some poles in the ground), doesn't seem like it would require an EIA.

From a SWPPP perspective, under an acre of soil disturbance is de minimus. Between 1-5 acres of soil disturbance requires simply notifying to TCEQ of an intent to proceed. 5+ acres of soil disturbance would be a major project with project review at which point you may need a EIA.

Keep in mind, that is the amount of soil disturbed and not the size of the entire property. Also, if the dog park was installed and then the disc golf course installed at a different time, they may be considered separate projects.

One last thing, if an EIA was previously done (say when the park was initially built) it would not necessarily have to be repeated for future projects on the property.
woodometer
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Looks like the homeowners are being mobilized to fight the city. A letter was sent out to a very long list of recipients yesterday from a resident that everyone would recognize. Here are a couple of lines from the letter.

"It has come to my attention that an unauthorized commercial activitya disc golf coursehas been established in the area in the drainage way/ditch, the business is known as Armory Disc Golf headquartered out of town."

"Residents now fear for their safety, with heavy-duty disc golf equipment posing a risk to both property and pedestrians and unusual commercial activity. It is imperative that the City of Bryan takes immediate action to address this situation."
Mathguy64
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I did not realize that frisbees were "heavy duty" equipment. You learn something new all the time.
wareagle044
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woodometer said:

Looks like the homeowners are being mobilized to fight the city. A letter was sent out to a very long list of recipients yesterday from a resident that everyone would recognize. Here are a couple of lines from the letter.

"It has come to my attention that an unauthorized commercial activitya disc golf coursehas been established in the area in the drainage way/ditch, the business is known as Armory Disc Golf headquartered out of town."

"Residents now fear for their safety, with heavy-duty disc golf equipment posing a risk to both property and pedestrians and unusual commercial activity. It is imperative that the City of Bryan takes immediate action to address this situation."


This itself puts me in favor of the disc golf course. May go buy some discs and play a round this weekend
91_Aggie
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EL ag said:

I agree that Park Hudson has been ruined with all the bulldozing etc. The original purpose of this park was developed to provide residents who live in the community with a tranquil, densely wooded, natural habitat with abundant wildlife and established nature trail for walking, jogging, and biking for the past 15 years and the majority of the folks I see are walkers and joggers. An environmental impact statement would be necessary per TCEQ. It looks like the City of Bryan did not do their homework and furthermore ignored the residents that live around that area. Not sure where anyone will park when there are large tournaments. It seems like the City Council did not know what their own departments were doing.....

For tournaments, parking for participants is directed to the Tax Office and Tiffany Park entrance.

Can you please provide the original "Purpose of the Park" plan? It might have been but I would love to see what the original purpose. based on description of park it was designed to provide buffer between residential areas and commercial areas.

Parks are NOT designed too be a single neighborhood's "private park".

I'm going to let the readers decide what the real issues are here based on the complaints and responses so far.

Original complaints:
  • Discs in yard
  • People going into yards to get discs
  • Disc landing on roofs
  • Discs hitting houses.

Now that it appears those complaints will be addressed, now we start seeing:

1. What about the wildlife?
2. what about the environment?


We would just like to have an honest discussion with the residents where they truthfully tell us what their REAL complaint is.

Here's image (see below) where I circled park Hudson. Tiffany park had 6 hole course since 2010

For Parking for tournaments, participants are directed to Park in Tax Office Lot (tourney's only on Saturday really) or at Tiffany Park entrance so the main spaces can be used for dog Park and other users.

Looking at that map the only residents bordering the Park are the ones on Park Meadow Lane.
Based on residents walking up to disc golf players and mentioning that they are in a Private Park, the impression being made is that some of the Park Meadow Lane residents consider Park Hudson, their own private park and just don't want "outsiders" using their park.

there are about 33 house in that main cul de sac and the side cul de sac.

So we have about 33 homeowners...lets assume all are married... so maybe 70 people total that are trying to fight this, while you have hundreds (thousands if you include those that will travel here to play it) that are in favor of it.

In the blue circled area just North of Tiffany park are in favor of the course staying.

hyperbole being thrown around about the Park and Wildlife being "ruined" is just that, exaggeration. It has changed, but it is still very wooded. I see deer, hogs, and other wildlife out there every time I play. Been startled many a time with Deer bolting from the denser areas.






wareagle044
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This thread has had my attention so well that I just walked the trail while killing time before picking up my child who goes to school nearby.

Disc Golfers, dog walkers, bird watchers, birds all living in harmony as if they were all enjoying the sunshine together. I felt safe.
91_Aggie
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i made the post above before I saw the complaint. That language really seems to be want to ratchet up the fear with city leaders with no proof and no attempt to even have a discussion.

We are attempting to understand the concerns and make compromises and be reasonable.


The heaviest disc that are thrown are about 178 to 180 grams.
I'll use heaviest and convert ounces and pounds for the people like me who have no concept of grams

180 grams is (rounded up) .4 pounds *about 6 ounces less than 1/2 pound.

that's a double quarter pounder from McDonalds
that' a 6 ounce Filet Mignon from the Republic

There is no heavy equipment used in a Disc Golf tournament. Each person either carries a back pack with their discs or they use a cart (these are usually on 2 wheels and pulled behind and weigh 10-15 pounds)

The only other setup at the tournament will be some tailgate tents for the organizers for checking in.

the baskets and the teepads are the only other "equipment" on the teepad and those are in place and don't get carried around.

And the tournaments are not something that happens every week. I believe only about 3 were scheduled for this year and all 1 day events on a saturday.

And any tournaments do NOT restrict the park that day to only the tournament. Yes, there will be more people in the park that day, just like all other parks that have soccer fields, tennis courts, baseball fields, pickleball courts, etc.

A baseball or softball event uses much heavier player equipment than a disc golf tournament (helmets, bats, balls, gloves, huge baseball bags, cleats,etc.)

And just so it is Crystal Clear, anyone can go to Academy or Amazon (or if you want to support a local Business you can absolutely go to Armory Disc golf, and they can actually give you advice, but I don't want to be seen as me driving business to them) and buy about 3 discs to get started. A starter set will set you back maybe $30-$40. You can download a free app named Udisc and it will have the rules of disc golf on it and has maps of all disc golf parks including Park Hudson in it.

You don't even need a back pack or cart. You can go to the course with your $30 of "heavy equipment" and start playing without paying any "greens fee" or entry fee to the park.






91_Aggie
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I missed Unusual commercial activity.

This would be the same as any softball, pickleball, tennis, baseball, soccer, Road race, etc event that uses public parks to host those events.

nothing unusual there.



Tailgate88
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Quote:

Based on residents walking up to disc golf players and mentioning that they are in a Private Park, the impression being made is that some of the Park Meadow Lane residents consider Park Hudson, their own private park and just don't want "outsiders" using their park.


Weird that the city of Bryan built a fancy entrance with the city logo on it for a "private park".
Mathguy64
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I have to say, the last 15 months have been very entertaining. Its like each city has tried to one-up the other. They are giving "hold my beer" a new name.
JB
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Hey 91, keep fighting. Your responses are written well and without name calling. It will be disappointing if the city gives into one neighbor when so many people enjoy the course.

2007fightintexasaggie
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We only get out to play every so often but I think we will make it a point to go play this course this upcoming weekend. Keep up the good fight, 91.
91_Aggie
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2007fightintexasaggie said:

We only get out to play every so often but I think we will make it a point to go play this course this upcoming weekend. Keep up the good fight, 91.
Thanks.. if you do remember that holes 3, 9 and 10, and 12 are closed (the baskets are removed).

You can play 3 to practice trying to get out of a tunnel of trees but don't continue after that, just walk to 4.

Hole 9 there is an old basket from the original Tiffany Park course that makes it a short par 3.

Skip 10 entirely and go to 11

After 11 skip 12 and you'll have a long walk up to 13 (stay on far left as you walk to 13)

And you can play the rest of the course from 13-18 normally.

We are asking all players to be respectful of any park-goers and don't let any of them goad you into anything.
Especially if they try to claim it is a private park and they want to add your name to a lawsuit (which has been done).





Bucketrunner
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The "neighborhood representative " on KBTX tonight did his group no favors. He came off as arrogant.
wareagle044
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Bucketrunner said:

The "neighborhood representative " on KBTX tonight did his group no favors. He came off as arrogant.


I want to know what's on his 13 page document he was going to share with the KBTX reporter but didn't want her to share with anyone. He only had his 1 page elevator speech with him is what I heard him tell them when I went on my walk this afternoon.
Tibbers
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Tibbers
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[You have been given enough warnings and short bans. -Staff]
Tibbers
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The Good Ag Rock 88
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In the state of Texas, public urination falls under the category of Disorderly Conduct. Specifically, Section 42.01 of the Texas Penal Code defines disorderly conduct as the act of "exposing one's anus or genitals in a public place and being reckless about whether another person may be present who will be offended or alarmed by this act." This offense is typically considered a Class C misdemeanor, which is the lowest misdemeanor offense in the state. However, the consequences of a Class C misdemeanor can be more significant than you might think. If found guilty, an individual could face a fine of up to $500 and receive a final conviction on their record12.

Moreover, depending on the circumstances, location, presence of a minor, and the prosecutor's discretion, public urination could be charged as a more severe offense, such as Indecent Exposure or Lewdness:
[ol]
  • Indecent Exposure: Under Texas Penal Code 21.08, a person commits an offense if they expose their anus or any part of their genitals with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of another person, and they are reckless about whether someone else is present who will be offended or alarmed by their act. The consequences for this crime can include up to six months in jail and a $2,000 fine.
  • Lewdness: Penal Code 21.07 defines lewdness as an offense where a person knowingly engages in any‚Ķ
  • [/ol]Do not post any more obnoxious posts. Do no make fun of law enforcement who enforce the laws above
    The Good Ag Rock 88
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    Looks like the homeowners are being mobilized to fight the city. A letter was sent out to a very long list of recipients yesterday from a resident that everyone would recognize. Here are a couple of lines from the letter.

    "It has come to my attention that an unauthorized commercial activitya disc golf coursehas been established in the area in the drainage way/ditch, the business is known as Armory Disc Golf headquartered out of town."

    "Residents now fear for their safety, with heavy-duty disc golf equipment posing a risk to both property and pedestrians and unusual commercial activity. It is imperative that the City of Bryan takes immediate action to address this situation."

    In regards to the post above: Please see article below:

    Is Disc Golf Dangerous? Please see websites / videos below.


    2.This video shows what happens to Disc Golf Participants and Spectators
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=golf+disc+hits+man&&view=detail&mid=30FACE5380C30D330B7830FACE5380C30D330B78&&FORM=VDRVSR&PC=APPL
    3.Professional Disc Golfer hitting a Golf Cart with throw that goes off course: https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/11cyp62/catrina_allen_hitting_a_golf_cart_stopping_her/
    4.Fans and Cameramen hit by Discs (this is not funny)
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=golf+disc+hits+man&&view=detail&mid=30FACE5380C30D330B7830FACE5380C30D330B78&&FORM=VDRVSR&PC=APPL
    5.Disc Thrower hits tree
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=golf+disc+hits+man&&view=detail&mid=D8B6C5A01B18AE526D99D8B6C5A01B18AE526D99&&FORM=VDRVSR&PC=APPL
    6.City of Lafayette says that Disc Golf is dangerous
    https://c1n.tv/boulderchannel1/disc-golf-dangerous-says-lafayette-neighbors/
    7.Bad Throws but they get increasingly more embarrassing! Professional and Amateur Disc Throwers cannot control where the discs go.

    8.Bad Disc Throw strikes spectators, vehicles, etc. Listen to throwers comments.

    9.Man permanently disabled after being struck by Disc, please read.
    https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2016/11/03/disc-golf-dangers
    10.Windows broken and student injured at K-State.
    https://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/sept09/golfers91809.html
    11.Professional Disc Golfer hits Cameraman
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/11v1ub7/disc_golfer_hits_cameraman/
    12.European Professional Disc Golfer strikes sign, car and spectators

    13.Kids gets nailed in the head with Disc
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/ux1616/kid_gets_nailed_in_the_head_with_a_frisbee_from/
    14. Disc Review discussions on individuals hit by Discs https://www.dgcoursereview.com/threads/hit-by-a-disc.141550/
    15.Environmental Damage caused by Disc Golfers
    https://www.idausa.org/campaign/wild-animals-and-habitats/latest-news/richmond-residents-and-animals-protected-from-destructive-disc-golf-course-at-hilltop-lake-park/

    You all need to watch what you say in posts. You will be proven wrong.

    cslifer
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    Nobody is getting prosecuted for public lewdness or indecent exposure for urinating. The elements of those charges require more than just peeing in a park, which is why you intentionally left off the last and most important lines of the public lewdness statute which include that the actor has to be involved in sexual activity.
    Someone peeing in the park is at worst DOC, or city ordinance violation such as College Station has.
    When you exaggerate like that you are not helping your argument at all.
    cslifer
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    The videos you posted, as expected, show different situations that would be encountered locally. The video from Reddit shows some kids in a pasture intentionally throwing a disk at another. The cameraman video is from what appears to be a tournament and he is standing right next to the target. Again, posting this stuff is in no way helping your argument. Implying that this is what is happening in Bryan coupled with the gross misunderstanding of the law you posted above is why it is impossible to take you seriously.
    wareagle044
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    [If you would like to make your post again without quoting the videos it will stay on the thread. Thank you. -Staff]

    trouble
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    AG
    Now do soccer, softball, baseball, etc.
    wareagle044
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    wareagle044 said:


    [If you would like to make your post again without quoting the videos it will stay on the thread. Thank you. -Staff]



    It would be easy to google walking trail incidents and identify how unsafe walking trails are. How many murders, rapes, assaults, robberies, etc. have taken place on a walking trail? I'm not going to google it or find reddit posts; however, I'm sure its a fair amount to prove how unsafe it is to have a walking trail.

    I used to visit the Park Hudson dog park and was regularly the only person there which is why I ultimately stopped going to that park. When I walked through it yesterday, it was vibrant with people. I think the disc golf course has actually made the park a more safe place to be.
    cslifer
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    Good point, wasn't the governor paralyzed by a falling limb at a city park on a walking trail? Maybe we should start a petition to clear cut the park in the name of safety of course.
    91_Aggie
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    AG
    The Good Ag Rock 88 said:

    Looks like the homeowners are being mobilized to fight the city. A letter was sent out to a very long list of recipients yesterday from a resident that everyone would recognize. Here are a couple of lines from the letter.

    "It has come to my attention that an unauthorized commercial activitya disc golf coursehas been established in the area in the drainage way/ditch, the business is known as Armory Disc Golf headquartered out of town."

    "Residents now fear for their safety, with heavy-duty disc golf equipment posing a risk to both property and pedestrians and unusual commercial activity. It is imperative that the City of Bryan takes immediate action to address this situation."

    In regards to the post above: Please see article below:


    You all need to watch what you say in posts. You will be proven wrong.


    Not going to waste too much time trying to refute someone who uses Anecdotal evidence to try and make their point.

    Pulling videos from the Pro Tournaments that has thousands of spectators on the fairway is just dishonest.

    There is always a chance in any sport or recreational activity that someone could be injured.
    if you want to make a case you need to provide statistics of how many disc golf injuries per year per capita nd then compare those to other recreational activities in public parks and then show that Disc Golf is significantly more dangerous. but you can't do this because you apparently do not understand how real evidence work, thus your litany of videos and links showing single cases of anecdotal evidence.

    I could easily pull all sorts of deadly and serious injury links that occurred in Parks where people were just walking and they were attacked by dogs, people, etc. you are calling yourself an Aggie so I assume that means you went to College. So you should understand how evidence and statistics work.

    Again, the level of effort here of throwing every possible idea at the walls and hoping something sticks is very high.

    I will keep allowing everyone to make their own decisions about the true reason why these homeowners don't want the disc golf course that attracts younger people to the park.

    src94
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    AG
    So what I got out of that is we need to ban cameramen from disc golf courses. They are just targets getting in the way of the baskets.
    runnrboy
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    AG
    It's been a bit since I've walked the Park Hudson trail. I have been to the dog park recently and saw people playing disc golf but paid them no attention. I wanted to see what all the hub-bub is with all this. So I loaded up the dog and headed out there for a walk.

    I was expecting to see the course littered with people throwing discs, based on the reports some of the residents gave. What I saw was a few people walking, some with dogs and others without. A couple of older folks on bicycles, a dozen people playing with their kids in the detention area by the school, and kids playing on the the outdoor gym by the school. I also saw one disc golfer and he wasn't even on the course. He was along the trail in between the fairways.

    So, at least the 45 minutes I was there, I didn't see hoards of disc golfers.
    maroon barchetta
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    [This is not the General Board. -Staff]
    91_Aggie
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    AG
    runnrboy said:

    It's been a bit since I've walked the Park Hudson trail. I have been to the dog park recently and saw people playing disc golf but paid them no attention. I wanted to see what all the hub-bub is with all this. So I loaded up the dog and headed out there for a walk.

    I was expecting to see the course littered with people throwing discs, based on the reports some of the residents gave. What I saw was a few people walking, some with dogs and others without. A couple of older folks on bicycles, a dozen people playing with their kids in the detention area by the school, and kids playing on the the outdoor gym by the school. I also saw one disc golfer and he wasn't even on the course. He was along the trail in between the fairways.

    So, at least the 45 minutes I was there, I didn't see hoards of disc golfers.
    I will say that number has dropped a little with the closure of the 4 holes. It's a long course, so until the time change, it's tough to get out on a weekday in the daylight hours to play right now.

    But weekends should have more people.

    Jason86
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    AG
    Hoping for continued success of the course. I live in the area and regularly walk in Park Hudson, as another person mentioned I actually feel safer with the disc golfers present due to numbers. Most residents I speak with in the area actually do not even use the trail, I believe it's more just a "problem" due to the foot traffic present that they are unhappy with.

    Since the golfers have been present I have not run into any issues as a regular user, I find it entertaining to watch. Prior to the course being installed I have found drugs in the woods (also prominent in Austin's Colony woods) as well as homeless people walking the trail with shopping carts at night. I think there needs to be a bit more awareness from homeowners if they think this place was an oasis beforehand.
    91_Aggie
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    AG
    [Sometimes posts with flags and the replying posts are removed to be reviewed and if they are long posts or have a lot of replies it may take some time. -Staff]
    maroon barchetta
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    woodometer
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    AG
    This from another letter sent out by the same author of the previous letter.

    "The President of the Park Village HOA, and a former Bryan Mayor who is a resident, the Park Village and Park Meadow HOA's contribute over $28,000 a year for maintenance of the Trail." They also are claiming "Since the Trail was developed, The Park Village HOA alone has paid an estimated $96,000 in maintenance for the trail."

    Curious if the city is charging other HOA's around the city for park maintenance and if HOA members are aware of this. I can assure you that the HOA where I live does not pay maintenance for the park in our neigborhood.
     
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