So, I have dozens of rifles but do not consider myself in any way, shape or form a "gun guy." I can shoot just fine and I like having a variety of firearms. However, I am no expert nor do I pretend to be. I was essentially given an absolutely beautiful never-before fired Marlin1895 45/70 fitted with a really cool 3x5 Leopold scope. I had been looking for a truck gun for the ranch, which will be principally used to eradicate the pigs that have decided they really, really like my protein feeders and possibly for culling an axis or whitetail doe in the event I get motivate to sit in a rifle blind rather than my usual bow stand.

Question is this: with a common load (300 Gr hollow point), is this simply too much gun for a whitetail-sized thin-skinned, thin-boned game animal? Ballistics aside (I am principally a bowhunter and this question is asked as much out of curiosity as anything and I understand this is not a great 200+ yard rifle), what is your actual experience? In Africa, my PHs basically uses a .375 for everything from duiker (light solids) to elephant (heavy, expansion bullets). I wonder whether that correlates similarly with the 45/70.

What say you? Overkill or is a 45/70 more akin to shooting a deer or pig-sized animal with a .300 Ultra Mag?

Folks in Texas use 300WM for whitetails. You'll be fine with the gubmit but personally, yeah, it's a lot for WT.

ETA: I shoot this out of mine and am happy with it.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/45-70-government-325-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

Use it every year in the Midwest for deer but our corn fed deer are the size of a cow.

I use the same ammo as above post. Tried 3-4 others and none were as accurate at the Hornady.

I reload and use 300gr Rem HP's, chronographed at 1800fps on whitetail and hogs. IMO, it does less meat damage than my 30-06 or 7mag.

If you like shooting the 300's you should try some hand loads for 405's. Lot more knockdown with less felt recoil, with the right load.

I use the Leverevolutions too.
45/70 is great for what you are looking to do with it.

BUT!!!!!! You mentioned absolutely beautiful....and truck gun in the same breath.

Essentially a 44 mag carbine would do the same duty....without recoil punishment and without uglyfying a beauty.

Tarponfly. I like to hunt with some older style traditional cartridges with some replica firearms that can handle the modern smokeless powder loads.
The 45-70 has been with us for over 125 years. Albeit, much of its lifespan has been with it loaded with black powder, it was effectively used as a fine military round ( It was used as our official service cartridge for over 19 years) but also was used as a cartridge on the frontier for not only protection but also taking game animals for food of all sizes.
Loaded with modern Smokeless Powder rounds it will hold its own with most of our modern developments.
Its greatest fault is the curved trajectory that makes it difficult to consistently hit targets with reasonable size groupings beyond 175 yards or so.
With bullet weights of 300 grains your velocities will be in the 1800-2100 ft/sec range depending on powder type and grains of powder.
I have killed a number of hill country whitetails and a few axis, fallow, aoudads, and even elk or two and a waterbuck on the ranch in Texas with a 45-70 without doing anymore damage to the meat than a .25-06 or .308 with 150 grain bullets would do with the same shot placement.
I have a 45-70 in a Shilo Sharps " Quigley" style rifle as well as a Winchester 1886 that I really enjoy hunting with.
I have used both factory loaded rounds of 300 gr. SP and HP bullets with excellent results….using the SP style bullets for whitetails, axis and fallow.
The powders used are relatively slower burning powders so recoil is
quite mild as compared to a 25-06, .308, 270 imho.
The slower burning powders it's loaded with pushing that heavy bullet gives your shoulder a "shove" rather than a "kick" … if that makes sense.
I enjoy taking those old style firearms out and hunting with that old historic cartridge.

A 45/70 is ABSOLUTELY TOO MUCH for whitetail deer. You will destroy the entire carcass. As a matter of fact, just get rid of that rifle now. I'll be glad to take it off your hands

Thanks for the responses, guys. I have a thing for lever action rifles (too many Saturday westerns as a kid with the likes of Chuck Connors and others taming the west with their Winchesters). I will report back if I am blowing pieces off the animals I shoot, but it sounds like the Hornady load is the way to go

Not too much gun. I shot a mule deer with 375HH. Big slower moving bullets do well and don't damage meat as much. I love throwing too much lead….

My real-world experience is pathetic compared to posters out there shooting game, but here it is: I shoot large water jugs at 100 yards with my .45/70 and there is a satisfying 'pop' implosion. I shoot them with my .270 and it obliterates them dramatically and throws water far and wide. Don't know if that translates into tissue damage comparison on whitetail, but it's one observation.

I guess lever action rifles are gaining in popularity. I see that Smith and Wesson has started making them and now Savage has as well. They're really fun to load for. I have a Marlin 1895 that I can load down with plinking loads that are as easy to shoot as factory loads. But at near max loads my shoulder will give out before the rifle will. I have CZ in .375 H&H and it doesn't kick anywhere near as hard as that 1895 with full load 400 grain bullets.

McInnis said:

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I guess lever action rifles are gaining in popularity. I see that Smith and Wesson has started making them and now Savage has as well. They're really fun to load for. I have a Marlin 1895 that I can load down with plinking loads that are as easy to shoot as factory loads. But at near max loads my shoulder will give out before the rifle will. I have CZ in .375 H&H and it doesn't kick anywhere near as hard as that 1895 with full load 400 grain bullets.

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I will DEFINITELY avoid anything hot in the 400 gr range, then!

Using a 375 on a Duiker seems diabolical. LoL I felt bad when I saw what a 308 did to my Mountain Reedbuck and they're a little bigger than a Duiker.

My favorite cartridge.

Do tell.

45-70's are a lot of fun, I just picked up a new to me one this weekend!!!

That's a beauty.
I shot a Grant's Gazelle with a 450 Nitro Express on a cape buffalo hunt. Acted the same as when shot with a 243....

Just enjoy shooting....

I like my rifles like I like my women.

45-70

45-70Ag said:

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My favorite cartridge.

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As they say... user name checks out.

Gunny456 said:

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Tarponfly. I like to hunt with some older style traditional cartridges with some replica firearms that can handle the modern smokeless powder loads.
The 45-70 has been with us for over 125 years. Albeit, much of its lifespan has been with it loaded with black powder, it was effectively used as a fine military round ( It was used as our official service cartridge for over 19 years) but also was used as a cartridge on the frontier for not only protection but also taking game animals for food of all sizes.
Loaded with modern Smokeless Powder rounds it will hold its own with most of our modern developments.
Its greatest fault is the curved trajectory that makes it difficult to consistently hit targets with reasonable size groupings beyond 175 yards or so.
With bullet weights of 300 grains your velocities will be in the 1800-2100 ft/sec range depending on powder type and grains of powder.
I have killed a number of hill country whitetails and a few axis, fallow, aoudads, and even elk or two and a waterbuck on the ranch in Texas with a 45-70 without doing anymore damage to the meat than a .25-06 or .308 with 150 grain bullets would do with the same shot placement.
I have a 45-70 in a Shilo Sharps " Quigley" style rifle as well as a Winchester 1886 that I really enjoy hunting with.
I have used both factory loaded rounds of 300 gr. SP and HP bullets with excellent results….using the SP style bullets for whitetails, axis and fallow.
The powders used are relatively slower burning powders so recoil is
quite mild as compared to a 25-06, .308, 270 imho.
The slower burning powders it's loaded with pushing that heavy bullet gives your shoulder a "shove" rather than a "kick" … if that makes sense.
I enjoy taking those old style firearms out and hunting with that old historic cartridge.

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Straight-wall cartridges seldom use "slower burning powders", just part of the physics found in cartridge (re)loading.
Applicable powders for the 45-70, 444 Marlin, 350 Legend et al, are on the faster end of the burn rate.
But the "shove", versus harsh "kick" does seem to exist, maybe it's the modest velocity for the bullet weight, akin to a shotgun w/ slugs.

For me personally, with 300gr bullets, I found IMR 4198 to be the best powder, for the velocities I'm trying to hold along with accuracy.

GSS said:

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Gunny456 said:

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Tarponfly. I like to hunt with some older style traditional cartridges with some replica firearms that can handle the modern smokeless powder loads.
The 45-70 has been with us for over 125 years. Albeit, much of its lifespan has been with it loaded with black powder, it was effectively used as a fine military round ( It was used as our official service cartridge for over 19 years) but also was used as a cartridge on the frontier for not only protection but also taking game animals for food of all sizes.
Loaded with modern Smokeless Powder rounds it will hold its own with most of our modern developments.
Its greatest fault is the curved trajectory that makes it difficult to consistently hit targets with reasonable size groupings beyond 175 yards or so.
With bullet weights of 300 grains your velocities will be in the 1800-2100 ft/sec range depending on powder type and grains of powder.
I have killed a number of hill country whitetails and a few axis, fallow, aoudads, and even elk or two and a waterbuck on the ranch in Texas with a 45-70 without doing anymore damage to the meat than a .25-06 or .308 with 150 grain bullets would do with the same shot placement.
I have a 45-70 in a Shilo Sharps " Quigley" style rifle as well as a Winchester 1886 that I really enjoy hunting with.
I have used both factory loaded rounds of 300 gr. SP and HP bullets with excellent results….using the SP style bullets for whitetails, axis and fallow.
The powders used are relatively slower burning powders so recoil is
quite mild as compared to a 25-06, .308, 270 imho.
The slower burning powders it's loaded with pushing that heavy bullet gives your shoulder a "shove" rather than a "kick" … if that makes sense.
I enjoy taking those old style firearms out and hunting with that old historic cartridge.

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Straight-wall cartridges seldom use "slower burning powders", just part of the physics found in cartridge (re)loading.
Applicable powders for the 45-70, 444 Marlin, 350 Legend et al, are on the faster end of the burn rate.
But the "shove", versus harsh "kick" does seem to exist, maybe it's the modest velocity for the bullet weight, akin to a shotgun w/ slugs.

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This is exactly true. All other things being equal, bottleneck cartridges build more pressure than ones with straight walls. Straight wall cartridges need faster burning powder.

My personal example: a while back I had been using IMR-4064 for a 30-06. When I got my first 45-70 I found a recipe that called for 4064. I tried it and found unburned powder in the fired cartridges. I realized I would need faster burning powders for it. I now use Re7 and IMR-3031.

I said "relatively" slower burning powders. On most burn rate charts (Listing fastest to slowest 1-197, with 197 being the slowest) the typical 45-70 load uses Hodgon Lever Revolution (#121), IMR-3031 (#108), H-132 (#102),
H-4198 (#100) IMR-4198 (#99) Alliance RL-7 (#98) The book, Cartridges of The World, list the above powders as the most common used for the 45-70. All falling to the slower side of the medium of burn rates. I should have been more specific in my comment.....thanks for making me aware of my error. I consider a powder like IMR-4831 (#148) to be a very slow burning powder and IMR -7625 (#31) as a very fast burning powder.

Its always been my experience in reloading that, given the same velocities, the heavier the bullet, the more perceived felt recoil.....but I am sure that can be argued per each individual.

I should have been more specific, for powders applicable to "rifle" cartridges, the 45-70 definitely uses powders on the "faster" side.
I didn't consider handgun/shotgun powders (all fast), in my comment, for relative burn rates.

Understand. My original post, in regards to the OP, was to just make the point that, in my opinion, the 45-70 is, with normal loads, and not including Hornady's Leverrevolution cartridge, relatively mild in recoil in comparison to many other cartridges.

Cledus6150…. Great find on the 1886!
I belong to the Winchester Collectors Association and last year we had a dinner at the big Wanenmachers gun show in Tulsa. Some of the guys were discussing using some modern loads/cartridges in the pre 1898 manufactured 1886's. Specifically the Hornady Lever Revolution cartridge was the focal point in the discussion.
There was some chatter that it and some other loads may not be good for the older 1886's actions and the fact that Winchester did not start using nickel steel barrels for smokeless powder on the standard weight 1886's until late 1896 -1897.
You might want to see if your barrel is marked nickel steel and check on the other info if you ever plan on shooting those rounds through it.
There is some good discussion on the Winchester Collectors Association forums on the topic.

CactusThomas said:

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I like my rifles like I like my women.

45-70

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I think I'm gonna go with a .22 here.

Ooo good point, I have the rifle apart presently removing all the cosmolean and gunk from the internals. I will check the barrel for that mark! I'm planning on running either Barnes TSX or the Winchester jhs's trying to keep psi around the 26-30k range.

Sounds like a good plan. Hope you have lots of fun with it. Don't you wish it could tell you all it's seen and all the hands that touched it?

I'll say this; I have learned quite a bit more about my new rifle than I thought when making the OP!

Thanks for the input, regardless. I am actually more excited than ever to get this rifle out in the field (and definitely not as a Jeep gun or beater).