agsalaska said:
Also don't see anyone saying shotguns don't need to be aimed.
I'm glad you are worried about preserving your hearing.
I think you might need to see an eye doc though.
Eta: was supposed to have smiley emoji on this
Home Defense
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Last: 7 days ago by John Cocktolstoy
I'm glad you are worried about preserving your hearing.
I think you might need to see an eye doc though.
Eta: was supposed to have smiley emoji on this
BenderRodriguez said:agsalaska said:
Also don't see anyone saying shotguns don't need to be aimed.
I'm glad you are worried about preserving your hearing.
I think you might need to see an eye doc though.
Something stage happened and it said two new posts but had like 20 posts I had not read. Staff must have needed to feel important.
But I still say if anyone says that in 2024 on the OB they are saying it as a joke. Has to be.
Also. Edit to add, it's not my hearing I'm concerned about. It's too late for me.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
agsalaska said:
But I still say if anyone says that in 2024 on the OB they are saying it as a joke. Has to be.
I like that you're a glass half full kind of guy. But I don't share your optimism.
So me pointing an AR in the same direction I would point a shotgun.1Aggie99 said:
No but more effective if you at least get it going in general area vs AR/pistol.
The shotgun is magically in "the general area".
The AR is somehow not though.
Good logic.
And unless the barrel on your shotgun is about 10" or under and you have an improved cylinder or open choke on it - you aren't getting much spread out of that shot column at most distance you'd shoot in a house. Now, if you are texags rich and have a mansion with 80's halls, different story. But the 15'-20' you are most likely to have as maximum distance, you are getting a very small expansion on the shot column. Like less than 3" in most cases.
Nahh.agsalaska said:Rockdoc said:agsalaska said:docb said:
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
Says someone who has never dealt with tinnitus.
It is absolutely 100% a real concern for anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the long term consequences of it.
If you can do things to mitigate hearing loss like suppress or use longer barrels or subsonic ammo or whatever then do it.
A couple of shots out of a 10.5inch AR in an enclosed room has the real possibility of ruining your quality of life. Why do that when you could use something else that is also effective.
Exactly. I have tinnitus so severely the ringing masks what else is going on in the house. If I fire a shot without ear pro then I'm done for. The intruder could be standing right behind me and I wouldn't know it. When I put on electronic ear pro with the sound cranked up, I can hear everything going on in the house and the ringing seems diminished. I'm not getting up with or without gun to check on something without it.
Yep. I wish I was still naive enough to pretend it didnt matter in an HD situation. I can no longer go to concerts, race tracks, even indoor basketball games are a no go.
Using an AR pistols for HD without a can is the dumbest thing someone could possibly do.
Dumbest thing one could possibly do is nothing, or be so worried about tinnitus at 3am that they waste time fumbling around with hearing protection while a bad guy is doing bad guy things.
But you do you, we all get to make those choices at least.
Fair. I just read that and bet he ia serious.
But I would also guess that a dozen people that read my post have a loaded 10.5 AR with no suppression. That's my glass half empty
But I would also guess that a dozen people that read my post have a loaded 10.5 AR with no suppression. That's my glass half empty
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Let's take a survey and see who on here has actually had someone kick in their door (or just sneak in) at 3 am and you've gotten into a shoot out (or just shot them) inside your home. What did you use and how were the results?
Sincerely,
An avid hunter,
have a CHL, and
have ready firearms for home defense
Sincerely,
An avid hunter,
have a CHL, and
have ready firearms for home defense
Good lord... you win, we disagree!
As you mentioned, there are ways to modify to make them more effective a close range. I have one built for SD that we have modified, feel comfortable with, and trust myself a hell of a lot more than I would trying to put a dot on someone at 3am jumping out of bed. My wife and kids know how to use it and feel good with it. That's all I care about.
Obviously you disagree. Great. I hope whatever any of us use, if that situation ever presents itself, works and the good guys walk way unharmed.
Good logic... hope I never get the chance to prove you right or wrong!
As you mentioned, there are ways to modify to make them more effective a close range. I have one built for SD that we have modified, feel comfortable with, and trust myself a hell of a lot more than I would trying to put a dot on someone at 3am jumping out of bed. My wife and kids know how to use it and feel good with it. That's all I care about.
Obviously you disagree. Great. I hope whatever any of us use, if that situation ever presents itself, works and the good guys walk way unharmed.
Good logic... hope I never get the chance to prove you right or wrong!
schmellba99 said:Nahh.agsalaska said:Rockdoc said:agsalaska said:docb said:
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
Says someone who has never dealt with tinnitus.
It is absolutely 100% a real concern for anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the long term consequences of it.
If you can do things to mitigate hearing loss like suppress or use longer barrels or subsonic ammo or whatever then do it.
A couple of shots out of a 10.5inch AR in an enclosed room has the real possibility of ruining your quality of life. Why do that when you could use something else that is also effective.
Exactly. I have tinnitus so severely the ringing masks what else is going on in the house. If I fire a shot without ear pro then I'm done for. The intruder could be standing right behind me and I wouldn't know it. When I put on electronic ear pro with the sound cranked up, I can hear everything going on in the house and the ringing seems diminished. I'm not getting up with or without gun to check on something without it.
Yep. I wish I was still naive enough to pretend it didnt matter in an HD situation. I can no longer go to concerts, race tracks, even indoor basketball games are a no go.
Using an AR pistols for HD without a can is the dumbest thing someone could possibly do.
Dumbest thing one could possibly do is nothing, or be so worried about tinnitus at 3am that they waste time fumbling around with hearing protection while a bad guy is doing bad guy things.
But you do you, we all get to make those choices at least.
Yep. You are perfectly allowed to be as dumb as you want. That much is clear.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Hey we're all different. How long is it gonna take me to put on muffs? How long is it gonna take me to locate and put on my glasses? How long is it gonna take to reach for my firearm? Personal decisions. No universally right answer.
Rockdoc said:
Personal decisions. No universally right answer.
Absolutely. Everyones house, family, etc is different. I dont care what anyone uses. I think no less of your ability or willingness to protect your family with a pump action shotgun if thats your choice, and I'm not even saying its an incorrect choice.
What I take exception to is when people repeat things the've heard online that are demonstrably false in order to justify a previously made personal decision.
1) you have to aim shotguns to the same level of precision you would a pistol or AR
2) there is no good self defense load that will "stop in the wall", only bad and less bad options to be trained around
3) racking a gun to scare someone off is hollywood bs. Just stop.
Make a choice, train with it, you're good. Everything else is mental jacking it to feel better about choices you've already made and no one can talk you out of anyway.
Too much great info mixed with common sense, you should be banned...BenderRodriguez said:Rockdoc said:
Personal decisions. No universally right answer.
Absolutely. Everyones house, family, etc is different. I dont care what anyone uses. I think no less of your ability or willingness to protect your family with a pump action shotgun if thats your choice, and I'm not even saying its an incorrect choice.
What I take exception to is when people repeat things the've heard online that are demonstrably false in order to justify a previously made personal decision.
1) you have to aim shotguns to the same level of precision you would a pistol or AR
2) there is no good self defense load that will "stop in the wall", only bad and less bad options to be trained around
3) racking a gun to scare someone off is hollywood bs. Just stop.
Make a choice, train with it, you're good. Everything else is mental jacking it to feel better about choices you've already made and no one can talk you out of anyway.
jwoodmd said:
Let's take a survey and see who on here has actually had someone kick in their door (or just sneak in) at 3 am and you've gotten into a shoot out (or just shot them) inside your home.
If your only criteria to be worth listening to is "have you had to shoot someone who invaded your home", I have good news for you. The blog I linked earlier is written by exactly that person. Go check out an experienced experts opinion on the topic.
People walk to the other side of the street when they see him coming. Little do they know he's a teddy bear. He's pretty protective of my wife and son. He sits and watches people from a far. If people walk towards them he positions his body between them. Never aggressive but always there and watching.
Entertaining as always.
Whatever you choose, practice with it in a practical way. Test your assumptions. If you think to don't have to aim a shotgun, take your gun, your load, and pattern it at distances you might see in your house. Shoot it without aiming and see how it goes.
The best thing I've ever done for my shooting is consistent, short, focused dry fire practice with a par timer. Nothing will make you improve like pushing yourself 10-20% faster than you can actually go and get the hits you want.
Doing this lets me know I can get about 5 shots\sec into vitals at any distance on my house with an AR, 4 with my bedside\rural carry pistol, and 3 or 4 with my concealed carry pistol. I know what my reliable times to first shot from ready or a holster are too.
Whatever you choose, practice with it in a practical way. Test your assumptions. If you think to don't have to aim a shotgun, take your gun, your load, and pattern it at distances you might see in your house. Shoot it without aiming and see how it goes.
The best thing I've ever done for my shooting is consistent, short, focused dry fire practice with a par timer. Nothing will make you improve like pushing yourself 10-20% faster than you can actually go and get the hits you want.
Doing this lets me know I can get about 5 shots\sec into vitals at any distance on my house with an AR, 4 with my bedside\rural carry pistol, and 3 or 4 with my concealed carry pistol. I know what my reliable times to first shot from ready or a holster are too.
BenderRodriguez said:jwoodmd said:
Let's take a survey and see who on here has actually had someone kick in their door (or just sneak in) at 3 am and you've gotten into a shoot out (or just shot them) inside your home.
If your only criteria to be worth listening to is "have you had to shoot someone who invaded your home", I have good news for you. The blog I linked earlier is written by exactly that person. Go check out an experienced experts opinion on the topic.
I have a family member that this happened to. They used an MP5. This was before the 300BLK so it wasn't an option. Civilian SBRs ARs weren't really the norm 20 years ago. It was a fast and one sided fight. You can guess the way it went.
OP, if you are worried about gangs of illegals, you are missing the obvious most feared weapon south of the border.
Not trying to impose a criteria at all. Was/is a serious question. We all talk about this subject and it's extremely important. Was just seeing how common/uncommon it is and whether anyone who had had this happen to would share their experience(s)BenderRodriguez said:jwoodmd said:
Let's take a survey and see who on here has actually had someone kick in their door (or just sneak in) at 3 am and you've gotten into a shoot out (or just shot them) inside your home.
If your only criteria to be worth listening to is "have you had to shoot someone who invaded your home", I have good news for you. The blog I linked earlier is written by exactly that person. Go check out an experienced experts opinion on the topic.
I keep 4 guns ready to get anyone who wants to break in
Pistol in night stand
12 gauge defense shot gun w #2 buck shot in closet
AR15 with 4 loaded clips in closet
7mm Mag w scope if they somehow get out of my house and I need to bring some justice from a ways off
Of course the dogs bark at anything that moves around the house
Pistol in night stand
12 gauge defense shot gun w #2 buck shot in closet
AR15 with 4 loaded clips in closet
7mm Mag w scope if they somehow get out of my house and I need to bring some justice from a ways off
Of course the dogs bark at anything that moves around the house
#1 is a dog. If not as a outright deterrent, then as early warning system to buy you more time.
Pump-shotguns, so great, you get 3-4 shots? Aldo Google "short-stroking" a shotgun when you are under duress
Pistol - fine, but they also the hardest to become proficient with
I'm in the rifle camp. Larger mag capacity. Longer sight radius. Can hold with two hands and anchor to your shoulder. If you don't want an AR, there are a lot of affordable pistol-caliber carbines out there like the Ruger PC
Pump-shotguns, so great, you get 3-4 shots? Aldo Google "short-stroking" a shotgun when you are under duress
Pistol - fine, but they also the hardest to become proficient with
I'm in the rifle camp. Larger mag capacity. Longer sight radius. Can hold with two hands and anchor to your shoulder. If you don't want an AR, there are a lot of affordable pistol-caliber carbines out there like the Ruger PC
Pistols are good since they are easy to handle and practice, any the size of the G19 that can hold 15 rounds or higher and can mount a light is ideal.
PCCs are also an option, I am going to start playing with a CAA G19 setup with a 33 round mag and backup 33 round mag full of hollow points (bullpup type setup and lots of rounds). Throw on a red dot, sling, and light and all is good. Just make sure whatever PCC or pistol you use to use hollow points
ARs with rifle rounds are loud as heck especially with barrels under 16" unless you have a suppressor or subsonic rounds, still loud then but not as loud. Something suppressed like a .300 blackout with subsonic rounds would be be ideal but that is a lot of dough. But in the end they are more lethal than pistol rounds.
Semi auto shotgun is a great option but also freaking loud and limited to less than 10 shots. But if you need more than 10 rounds with a shotgun you are likely SOL anyways.
Either way shot placement is key, whatever you choose practice and practice with. On my long gun I have a tourniquet on each just in case the rounds go the wrong direction
My dog is extremely nice but if sense you as a threat have fun, Australian and German shepherd mix, pit came at my wife one day and pit left without any skin on its face.
PCCs are also an option, I am going to start playing with a CAA G19 setup with a 33 round mag and backup 33 round mag full of hollow points (bullpup type setup and lots of rounds). Throw on a red dot, sling, and light and all is good. Just make sure whatever PCC or pistol you use to use hollow points
ARs with rifle rounds are loud as heck especially with barrels under 16" unless you have a suppressor or subsonic rounds, still loud then but not as loud. Something suppressed like a .300 blackout with subsonic rounds would be be ideal but that is a lot of dough. But in the end they are more lethal than pistol rounds.
Semi auto shotgun is a great option but also freaking loud and limited to less than 10 shots. But if you need more than 10 rounds with a shotgun you are likely SOL anyways.
Either way shot placement is key, whatever you choose practice and practice with. On my long gun I have a tourniquet on each just in case the rounds go the wrong direction
My dog is extremely nice but if sense you as a threat have fun, Australian and German shepherd mix, pit came at my wife one day and pit left without any skin on its face.
Clips?
Oh boy. Here we go.
Oh boy. Here we go.
My first line is a big a-hole dog. Although she sleeps harder than me. I'm not sure who'd wake up first if it was a night time home invasion.
Second line is 300 blackout SBR suppressed with discreet ballistics ammo and a blinding light on it.
And finally, a 12" sawed off shotgun in the closet as a backup. But I doubt I'd make it to my closet, I'm probably leaving my bedroom and going up to the kid's room to secure him.
Second line is 300 blackout SBR suppressed with discreet ballistics ammo and a blinding light on it.
And finally, a 12" sawed off shotgun in the closet as a backup. But I doubt I'd make it to my closet, I'm probably leaving my bedroom and going up to the kid's room to secure him.
Ark03 said:Doors are your first line of defense, and buy you time to do all the other things. I have something like this reinforcing my door jam and hinges: https://asafehome.net/SharkinAg said:
I keep a pistol with multiple mags available. Also, a solid bedroom door with a reinforced deadbolt will buy you a little time as well to gather your thoughts. Get rid of the little screws that go into the frame and replace them with long screws that go into the stud. Door jams on the perimeter doors also slow them down. Nice to have the wife trained to bolt the bedroom door while you get to your gun. If you have kids in other rooms around the house this obviously wouldn't be an option. Not an issue for me yet.
My biggest issue is being roused from sleep and having a clear head. Most times I'm fine. But my alarm once went off at 3am due to a faulty sensor and I was disgusted/sick to my stomach how long it took for me to gain a clear head.
I have installed a storm door covering my front door. The intruders would have to kick through that before they got to my steel front door. They'd make plenty of noise.
Here is my take on home defense. Lots of training in my life. Every person I train with has used their weapon to neutralize bad actors. I have never shot anyone. Pulled weapon once to stop carjacking. Watched a thief/store owner empty their pistols at each other from 10 feet.
Anyway, I believe/teach that there are circles of defense around your house. I like motion detector lights. Thieves in general do not like light. I like yappy dogs. I like really good deadbolts on exterior doors. I like a preplanned safe place for family to assemble. I like long hinge screws and dead bolt doors on assigned safe rooms. The safe area is where you can most importantly think, decide your course of action and execute plan. Call 911, defend your space, etc...
It is unrealistic to think that if your door crashes in and bad guy/guys come rushing in while you are watching a Netflix drama that you will instantly react with a positive outcome. The OODA Loop does not work that way. It will take seconds for you to recognize what is going on, seconds to comprehend what is going on and seconds to initiate a counter response. It is better to have a simple plan. For instance, if motion lights come on/dog barks, that raises defense level. If the next barrier is broken, go to safe area and assemble response.
We have motion detector lights, steel doors with deadbolts, deadbolt on master bedroom door. Pistol in drawer in living/dining area, pistol with light in bedroom drawer, pistol in truck/car. I sincerely hope that I never have to use any of the above tactics.
Anyway, I believe/teach that there are circles of defense around your house. I like motion detector lights. Thieves in general do not like light. I like yappy dogs. I like really good deadbolts on exterior doors. I like a preplanned safe place for family to assemble. I like long hinge screws and dead bolt doors on assigned safe rooms. The safe area is where you can most importantly think, decide your course of action and execute plan. Call 911, defend your space, etc...
It is unrealistic to think that if your door crashes in and bad guy/guys come rushing in while you are watching a Netflix drama that you will instantly react with a positive outcome. The OODA Loop does not work that way. It will take seconds for you to recognize what is going on, seconds to comprehend what is going on and seconds to initiate a counter response. It is better to have a simple plan. For instance, if motion lights come on/dog barks, that raises defense level. If the next barrier is broken, go to safe area and assemble response.
We have motion detector lights, steel doors with deadbolts, deadbolt on master bedroom door. Pistol in drawer in living/dining area, pistol with light in bedroom drawer, pistol in truck/car. I sincerely hope that I never have to use any of the above tactics.
That's awesome.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
I grew up on a ranch with hundreds of guns … call it what ever you want.. I have fired off more rounds and reloaded more shells than probably 100 people all together .. I'm good bromaroon barchetta said:
Clips?
Oh boy. Here we go.
AggieOO said:not sure why you'd ask a bunch of aggies. we haven't defended Kyle field since the mid 90s.Mr Gigem said:
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on what the best options are for home defense.
A few thoughts agreeing with previous posts.
1. Pistol in night stand until I get to my SBR
2. My SBR is suppressed in subsonic 300 BLK. When I zeroed the RDS and BUIS, I shot both super and sub ammo. (I also have a green dot laser since it might be dark). At home defense ranges, not a significant difference in trajectory shift but would be if shooting hogs at any distance. Big drop with sub as distance increases.
3. My first concern is protecting my home, but hearing protection is an important secondary issue. I have tinnitus and don't want it to get worse. I've never tried my suppressed, subsonic 300 BLK in a shoot house but know it is significantly quieter than even suppressed 223 which is quieter than unsuppressed but you still get the supersonic crack. (BTW, I swap out the 300 BLK upper for a 556/223 upper when I shoot carbine matches.)
4. If you think you only have to "point a shotgun down the hall without aiming", go try a 3 Gun match. Multiple stationary clay pigeons or similar sized metal plates at essentially self defense ranges. You quickly find how important aiming is.
1. Pistol in night stand until I get to my SBR
2. My SBR is suppressed in subsonic 300 BLK. When I zeroed the RDS and BUIS, I shot both super and sub ammo. (I also have a green dot laser since it might be dark). At home defense ranges, not a significant difference in trajectory shift but would be if shooting hogs at any distance. Big drop with sub as distance increases.
3. My first concern is protecting my home, but hearing protection is an important secondary issue. I have tinnitus and don't want it to get worse. I've never tried my suppressed, subsonic 300 BLK in a shoot house but know it is significantly quieter than even suppressed 223 which is quieter than unsuppressed but you still get the supersonic crack. (BTW, I swap out the 300 BLK upper for a 556/223 upper when I shoot carbine matches.)
4. If you think you only have to "point a shotgun down the hall without aiming", go try a 3 Gun match. Multiple stationary clay pigeons or similar sized metal plates at essentially self defense ranges. You quickly find how important aiming is.
F4GIB71
Curious what you mean by the text in bold. Is the laser there in lieu of a light? Is it used in conjunction with a light?F4GIB71 said:
A few thoughts agreeing with previous posts.
1. Pistol in night stand until I get to my SBR
2. My SBR is suppressed in subsonic 300 BLK. When I zeroed the RDS and BUIS, I shot both super and sub ammo. (I also have a green dot laser since it might be dark). At home defense ranges, not a significant difference in trajectory shift but would be if shooting hogs at any distance. Big drop with sub as distance increases.
3. My first concern is protecting my home, but hearing protection is an important secondary issue. I have tinnitus and don't want it to get worse. I've never tried my suppressed, subsonic 300 BLK in a shoot house but know it is significantly quieter than even suppressed 223 which is quieter than unsuppressed but you still get the supersonic crack. (BTW, I swap out the 300 BLK upper for a 556/223 upper when I shoot carbine matches.)
4. If you think you only have to "point a shotgun down the hall without aiming", go try a 3 Gun match. Multiple stationary clay pigeons or similar sized metal plates at essentially self defense ranges. You quickly find how important aiming is.
For home defense it is about precious seconds and ready access.
1) I have 2 large dogs that wake up and alert me faster than anything else can - and they'd stall anyone for a few extra seconds.
2) I have an alarm with access points on every door, and glass break covering every window. Again, shortening any time to awareness.
3) I have a sneaky cabinet ready to open that is 10 feet from where I sleep, and there are no barriers. This is where my gun resides.
4) inside I have my 3 barrel 12 ga, already loaded just broken down. It takes me minimal effort and zero seconds to grab it and snap it into go mode. No moving pieces to possibly go wrong when heart is racing.
I perfected this system not long ago, when a drugged out MFer tried to push his way into my front door at 2:57am on a random Wednesday. The dogs bought me enough time on that one, and he left once he saw me with the shotgun - but at the time I had to retrieve it from the closet, and load it (was using my semi automatic shotgun). Honestly I was very lucky the dogs gave me enough time.
1) I have 2 large dogs that wake up and alert me faster than anything else can - and they'd stall anyone for a few extra seconds.
2) I have an alarm with access points on every door, and glass break covering every window. Again, shortening any time to awareness.
3) I have a sneaky cabinet ready to open that is 10 feet from where I sleep, and there are no barriers. This is where my gun resides.
4) inside I have my 3 barrel 12 ga, already loaded just broken down. It takes me minimal effort and zero seconds to grab it and snap it into go mode. No moving pieces to possibly go wrong when heart is racing.
I perfected this system not long ago, when a drugged out MFer tried to push his way into my front door at 2:57am on a random Wednesday. The dogs bought me enough time on that one, and he left once he saw me with the shotgun - but at the time I had to retrieve it from the closet, and load it (was using my semi automatic shotgun). Honestly I was very lucky the dogs gave me enough time.
Whollee Chit, happy your still with us!
Let me tell you, those pups have never been treated so well as the rest of that week
160 lbs dog will buy you some time.
My wife and I had always talked about not replacing the dogs as we get closer to retirement, just because of the desire to travel and such. That event completely changed that idea - we'll never not have them.
I grilled them each a high dollar steak that next day.
I grilled them each a high dollar steak that next day.
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