Don't let this picture fool you. His name is Zeus for a reason.
Home Defense
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Last: 9 days ago by John Cocktolstoy
There is a dog just like him in my neighborhood that always tries to get after my Rhodesian Ridgeback. I thought it was him for a sec, but saw you are not in CS. If he ever lets go of that leash, it is not going to be a fun day for either of us.
alvtimes said:
Dogs-yes, shotguns-yes, pistols-yes!
Do you only have 1 tool in your toolbox???
Give yourself options
pistol in a drawer in living room watching tv- sure thing
shotgun in bedroom closet heck ya.
If you are preparing for a home invasion style issue, you never know where you will be in the house when it happens.
If you are making dinner in kitchen when front door gets kicked in and gun is in the bedroom…. you are probably SOL
A pissed off father wielding a scalding hot cast iron pan full of hot whathaveyou in one hand and a razor sharp chef's knife in the other is NEVER SOL.
Well I guess if you bring a skillet to a gunfight you might be out of luck.
tagging in on Benders train train train….. if the situation devolves into dumping an empty mag and going for a reload…. Dont try to collect/catch empty mag….thats time wasted…. get it out and onthe ground …. forget about it…. its useless now… focus on getting mag #2 into the gun
JeremiahJohnson said:
AR15 is way easier to shoot and aim rapidly than a shotgun.
I have a pistol in my night stand to allow me to get to my AR.
No offense (always followed by something offensive by the way) OP but you sound paranoid. Not sure where you live but assuming in the lower 48 somewhere. Sure some south american gang could randomly pick your house to kick the door in but I wouldn't spend my time worrying. I would venture to guess most of those events have ties to other illegal activity.
However, to answer your question. If I were the sort of fella that felt the need to have 3 "highly trained PBs" and spent any time thinking about cholos kicking the door in, I would suggest staying away from AR's/pistols. Aiming is likely not going to be a strong point so eliminate the importance of that. Shotguns, multiple in most common areas you spend your time. Loaded, having unloaded guns for home security is pissing in the wind.
However, to answer your question. If I were the sort of fella that felt the need to have 3 "highly trained PBs" and spent any time thinking about cholos kicking the door in, I would suggest staying away from AR's/pistols. Aiming is likely not going to be a strong point so eliminate the importance of that. Shotguns, multiple in most common areas you spend your time. Loaded, having unloaded guns for home security is pissing in the wind.
You're saying it's less important to aim shotguns?
No but more effective if you at least get it going in general area vs AR/pistol.
trip98 said:
if you're defending your home, do you really have time to put on armor?
option 1...shotgun....some say go with a pump gun b/c the sound of racking a round can be enough of a deterrent
option 2....pistol...use hollow points
option 3....mean, loud dog
option 4....rifle....smaller projectile designed to go longer distances not ideal for close quarter defense. yes, can be effective, but better options (see above).
What if he sleeps in the armor?
That changes everything!
If you say so
After reading OP's level of alertness concerning gangbangers from SA. I would bet you he wouldn't hit one of them standing sideways in a hallway with a 30 round clip! Them dudes ain't big, take the shotgun and practice shooting a little bit.
Shoot a 5.56 in an enclosed room and get back to me on best choices.
If you're going to use an AR suppress it. If you don't the subsequent tinnitus that you will deal with every minute of every day for the rest of your life will make you second guess that choice. And anyone who says something stupid like 'I'd rather have my life than blah blah……' has never dealt with tinnitus in any real way.
If you're going to use an AR suppress it. If you don't the subsequent tinnitus that you will deal with every minute of every day for the rest of your life will make you second guess that choice. And anyone who says something stupid like 'I'd rather have my life than blah blah……' has never dealt with tinnitus in any real way.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Got kids?
I have tinnitus.agsalaska said:
Shoot a 5.56 in an enclosed room and get back to me on best choices.
If you're going to use an AR suppress it. If you don't the subsequent tinnitus that you will deal with every minute of every day for the rest of your life will make you second guess that choice. And anyone who says something stupid like 'I'd rather have my life than blah blah……' has never dealt with tinnitus in any real way.
I'd still rather have my life than not.
I'll repeat - doesn't matter what you shoot in an enclosed room, it's going to be loud. I've shot suppressed subsonic .22's in enclosed rooms and it is loud enough to hurt your ears.
If you are such an awesome operator that if somebody kicks your door in at 3am when you are in a deep sleep that you can instantly wake up at full send 100% alert attention, then rock on with worrying about hearing protection and putting on a plate carrier, etc. But since none of you are that guy (no matter what you believe about yourself), worrying about hearing protection or plate carriers, etc. shoudln't even be on the list of priorities. And if you are going to have to pull the trigger, it's going to be loud. Luckily the human body has some self defense mechanism built in our DNA that help with this.
Suppressed, unsuppressed, rifle, pistol, shotgun, black powder - none of it matters. It's going to be loud. Really loud. And your adrenaline will be pumping at 110% and you likely won't even hear the report anyway.
So yes they are all loud. There is a difference in loud. If you don't believe me ask an ENT. Saying it doesn't matter is just a false statement.
There are also difference in level of tinnitus. Very different. Very very very different.
And whether or not your adrenaline is pumping or not and you hear it or not doesn't change the damage it does to your ears.
Get a dog. And if you use a rifle suppress it.
That's all.
There are also difference in level of tinnitus. Very different. Very very very different.
And whether or not your adrenaline is pumping or not and you hear it or not doesn't change the damage it does to your ears.
Get a dog. And if you use a rifle suppress it.
That's all.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
There are different levels of loud?
You don't say.
You don't say.
Shooting indoors/around reflective surfaces absolutely ups the hearing damage risks.
Short (sub 16") ARs are incredibly loud unsuppressed. Planning on also buying a can if you're planning on using a short AR is absolutely a really, really good idea.
Short 12 gauge shotguns are still very loud. Take data stolen off the internet with huge grains of salt, but I personally consider it misguided to assume you're dramatically lessening your hearing damage risk by opting for an 18" 12 gauge over a 16" 5.56.
It's not a coincidence that basically everyone who has spent any time training in shoot houses all default to a suppressed AR as their preferred choice.
Short (sub 16") ARs are incredibly loud unsuppressed. Planning on also buying a can if you're planning on using a short AR is absolutely a really, really good idea.
Short 12 gauge shotguns are still very loud. Take data stolen off the internet with huge grains of salt, but I personally consider it misguided to assume you're dramatically lessening your hearing damage risk by opting for an 18" 12 gauge over a 16" 5.56.
It's not a coincidence that basically everyone who has spent any time training in shoot houses all default to a suppressed AR as their preferred choice.
Yall, don't make me do a post next week on shotgun patterns at 10 yards. I really want to be doing other things at the range.
Since Bender is here.... let's assume using a suppressed AR platform SBR. What are your thoughts on 5.56 vs 300 BLK, in both subsonic and supersonic? Obviously the subsonic would be quieter, but how does effectiveness/penetration vary between 5.56 and 300 at the different speeds?
Best thing would be to make the house to secure from someone breaking in easily. Dead bolt thick doors, bars on windows, alarm system. Live in a neighborhood that has a security guard. Next line of defense would be a big mean dog, preferably two. Then I would say what ever gun you are comfortable shooting. For me it would be a shotgun. That is my thoughts. I think most want this thread just to talk about guns.
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
docb said:
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
Says someone who has never dealt with tinnitus.
It is absolutely 100% a real concern for anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the long term consequences of it.
If you can do things to mitigate hearing loss like suppress or use longer barrels or subsonic ammo or whatever then do it.
A couple of shots out of a 10.5inch AR in an enclosed room has the real possibility of ruining your quality of life. Why do that when you could use something else that is also effective.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Like a shotgun?
AgEng06 said:
Since Bender is here.... let's assume using a suppressed AR platform SBR. What are your thoughts on 5.56 vs 300 BLK, in both subsonic and supersonic? Obviously the subsonic would be quieter, but how does effectiveness/penetration vary between 5.56 and 300 at the different speeds?
I really like 300blk. I wish there was more testing out there on it, but based on what I've seen and shot, subsonic has the same issues that pistols and shotguns do for over penetration concerns.
I'm also not a huge fan of the performance of most subsonic 300blk. Its fun at the range, but I almost always use supers for any kind of hunting/defense set ups.
Barnes 110gr Tac-Tx is my favorite general purpose load but I have concerns about over penetration with it.
Right now if I was using a 300blk it would probably be loaded with 110gr V-max. The varmint bullets in 5.56 arent ideal SD loads but in 300blk where the velocity is a little slower they seem to be decent.
https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#RifleAmmoDocGKR
Really worth taking the time to read
Really worth taking the time to read
John Cocktolstoy said:
Shotgun is all you need, lots of great choices on them too. Don't shoot through walls and ruin your life and someone else's.
FALSE. Buck Shot and Slugs both will absolutely go through walls. If you use buckshot, stick with 8 shots per shell or less. 9 has more propensity for random fliers.
agsalaska said:docb said:
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
Says someone who has never dealt with tinnitus.
It is absolutely 100% a real concern for anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the long term consequences of it.
If you can do things to mitigate hearing loss like suppress or use longer barrels or subsonic ammo or whatever then do it.
A couple of shots out of a 10.5inch AR in an enclosed room has the real possibility of ruining your quality of life. Why do that when you could use something else that is also effective.
Exactly. I have tinnitus so severely the ringing masks what else is going on in the house. If I fire a shot without ear pro then I'm done for. The intruder could be standing right behind me and I wouldn't know it. When I put on electronic ear pro with the sound cranked up, I can hear everything going on in the house and the ringing seems diminished. I'm not getting up with or without gun to check on something without it.
Rockdoc said:agsalaska said:docb said:
Are we really concerned with hearing loss issues in dealing with an intruder? I mean come on.
Says someone who has never dealt with tinnitus.
It is absolutely 100% a real concern for anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the long term consequences of it.
If you can do things to mitigate hearing loss like suppress or use longer barrels or subsonic ammo or whatever then do it.
A couple of shots out of a 10.5inch AR in an enclosed room has the real possibility of ruining your quality of life. Why do that when you could use something else that is also effective.
Exactly. I have tinnitus so severely the ringing masks what else is going on in the house. If I fire a shot without ear pro then I'm done for. The intruder could be standing right behind me and I wouldn't know it. When I put on electronic ear pro with the sound cranked up, I can hear everything going on in the house and the ringing seems diminished. I'm not getting up with or without gun to check on something without it.
Yep. I wish I was still naive enough to pretend it didnt matter in an HD situation. I can no longer go to concerts, race tracks, even indoor basketball games are a no go.
Using an AR pistols for HD without a can is the dumbest thing someone could possibly do.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
I have a 10.5" and I don't shoot it without plugs AND muffs.
agsalaska said:
Using an AR pistols for HD without a can is the dumbest thing someone could possibly do.
Okay. I havent seen anyone in this thread recommending that.
There are multiple posters claiming shotguns dont need be aimed and dont overpenetrate, but I guess keep attacking your hypothetical strawman argument. You're beating the hell of your imaginary opponent.
I had one for a while. Actually got it off here from a regular poster back when we still had puppies.
I shot it about ten times and put it up for years. I finally last year sold it to a friend of mine and got an AR with an 18 inch barrel.
I shot it about ten times and put it up for years. I finally last year sold it to a friend of mine and got an AR with an 18 inch barrel.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
BenderRodriguez said:agsalaska said:
Using an AR pistols for HD without a can is the dumbest thing someone could possibly do.
Okay. I havent seen anyone in this thread recommending that.
There are multiple posters claiming shotguns dont need be aimed and dont overpenetrate, but I guess keep attacking your hypothetical strawman argument. You're beating the hell of your imaginary opponent.
Never said anyone has said that. Also don't see anyone saying shotguns don't need to be aimed. Not arguing or attacking anyone. We are all adults here and can handle conversations.
Edit to add-anyone who says that is just jacking with you.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
JeremiahJohnson said:
There is a dog just like him in my neighborhood that always tries to get after my Rhodesian Ridgeback. I thought it was him for a sec, but saw you are not in CS. If he ever lets go of that leash, it is not going to be a fun day for either of us.
The look on that dogs face says a LOT. That's an awesome pick. That is the ultimate no shots given look ever.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
Elko is a loser and we will be buying him out for some obscene amount of money in two years. - Agsalaska
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