CactusThomas said:DannyDuberstein said:
Probably drunk. Bad idea to dance like that while carrying.
"Bad idea to dance like that" period.
I will not argue with this
Dancing FBI agent shoots bar patron
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Last: 6 yr ago by Sasappis
I will not argue with this
agfan2013 said:
I'm actually surprised at how little most of the crowd reacted, I'd have been ducking for cover. Agree with what's already been said, his career is done, hope he likes flipping burgers at McDonald's.
The music was probably loud enough to somewhat dampen the impact/realization of what happened. Gunshot goes off in a mostly wiiet room, people jump out of their skin. Gun goes off with 90+ dB of music cranking, not so much.
BCStalk said:BenderRodriguez said:
Comfort/familiarity thing, right?
Take a class that teaches you how to draw from a holster, use a quality holster, and you'll overcome that unease about carrying a loaded gun.
Honestly if you aren't comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, your mindset likely isn't in the place you need it to be to effectively use a firearm for self defense.
Like most of us, you should take some more training classes.
I have to disagree a tiny bit. Some people just don't trust striker fire pistols no matter the amount of training. I do keep mine loaded at all times unless it's in a safe. I have a few friends that wouldn't ever carry chambered that had plenty of training. They switched to a hammered pistol that they felt safe with. Dunno if that's the case here but it's something to discuss. I would not be caught dead with an unchambered gun. Especially when seconds matter.
The only way a striker fired pistol fires a round is if the trigger is pulled. Period. Your friends are paranoid, plain and simple.
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Yelnick McWawa said:BCStalk said:BenderRodriguez said:
Comfort/familiarity thing, right?
Take a class that teaches you how to draw from a holster, use a quality holster, and you'll overcome that unease about carrying a loaded gun.
Honestly if you aren't comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, your mindset likely isn't in the place you need it to be to effectively use a firearm for self defense.
Like most of us, you should take some more training classes.
I have to disagree a tiny bit. Some people just don't trust striker fire pistols no matter the amount of training. I do keep mine loaded at all times unless it's in a safe. I have a few friends that wouldn't ever carry chambered that had plenty of training. They switched to a hammered pistol that they felt safe with. Dunno if that's the case here but it's something to discuss. I would not be caught dead with an unchambered gun. Especially when seconds matter.
The only way a striker fired pistol fires a round is if the trigger is pulled. Period. Your friends are paranoid, plain and simple.
Not so fast...
LBM-Aggie-2014 said:Yelnick McWawa said:BCStalk said:BenderRodriguez said:
Comfort/familiarity thing, right?
Take a class that teaches you how to draw from a holster, use a quality holster, and you'll overcome that unease about carrying a loaded gun.
Honestly if you aren't comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, your mindset likely isn't in the place you need it to be to effectively use a firearm for self defense.
Like most of us, you should take some more training classes.
I have to disagree a tiny bit. Some people just don't trust striker fire pistols no matter the amount of training. I do keep mine loaded at all times unless it's in a safe. I have a few friends that wouldn't ever carry chambered that had plenty of training. They switched to a hammered pistol that they felt safe with. Dunno if that's the case here but it's something to discuss. I would not be caught dead with an unchambered gun. Especially when seconds matter.
The only way a striker fired pistol fires a round is if the trigger is pulled. Period. Your friends are paranoid, plain and simple.
Not so fast...
Hints their point. All mechanical devices can fail at any time, some people just take it to heart more than others. If they feel better with a pistol with a dropped hammer too carry, I'm not going to question them. At least they know what they are comfortable carrying chambered.
birddog7000 said:
"It's the leadership that's corrupt and inept, not the boots on the ground..."
This is the same place leadership started thier own careers. There has to be some influence
I'm pretty impressed by the drunk backflip in khakis.
BCStalk said:
Hints their point. All mechanical devices can fail at any time, some people just take it to heart more than others. If they feel better with a pistol with a dropped hammer too carry, I'm not going to question them. At least they know what they are comfortable carrying chambered.
Hence*
I'd bet good money those guys are all big fans of how safe Series 70 1911s are to carry because they have "two safeties"...even though series 70 1911s shouldn't be considered drop safe.
Couple article specifically mention he had it in a holster.
BenderRodriguez said:BCStalk said:
Hints their point. All mechanical devices can fail at any time, some people just take it to heart more than others. If they feel better with a pistol with a dropped hammer too carry, I'm not going to question them. At least they know what they are comfortable carrying chambered.
Hence*
I'd bet good money those guys are all big fans of how safe Series 70 1911s are to carry because they have "two safeties"...even though series 70 1911s shouldn't be considered drop safe.
I don't entirely understand their mentality. I like my striker fire and it's plenty safe to carry. I personally prefer the light trigger pull when I'm drawing out of a holster. But like I said, I'd much rather someone carry what they are comfortable with then force them to carry what I prefer. Same feeling I have for revolvers, I would never carry one, but others swear by them. I think if people spent more time training, they would get more comfortable with different style of pistols. That being said, y'all don't have to always act like you are superior gun owners. We all support the same thing and I hope we all respect each other the same.
birddog7000 said:
"It's the leadership that's corrupt and inept, not the boots on the ground..."
Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
Your Friend said:
I've never taken any training courses but I couldnt imagaine carrying that thing around chambered so I'm probably the type of person that shouldn't try!
Nothing wrong with that. I respect your position.
But you should understand that with some training it is safe to carry with one in the chamber. Not saying you should or shouldn't take the training.
Koko Chingo said:birddog7000 said:
"It's the leadership that's corrupt and inept, not the boots on the ground..."
This is the same place leadership started thier own careers. There has to be some influence
It was sarcasm.
Burnsey said:birddog7000 said:
"It's the leadership that's corrupt and inept, not the boots on the ground..."
Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
Yes
BCStalk said:BenderRodriguez said:BCStalk said:
Hints their point. All mechanical devices can fail at any time, some people just take it to heart more than others. If they feel better with a pistol with a dropped hammer too carry, I'm not going to question them. At least they know what they are comfortable carrying chambered.
Hence*
I'd bet good money those guys are all big fans of how safe Series 70 1911s are to carry because they have "two safeties"...even though series 70 1911s shouldn't be considered drop safe.
I don't entirely understand their mentality. I like my striker fire and it's plenty safe to carry. I personally prefer the light trigger pull when I'm drawing out of a holster. But like I said, I'd much rather someone carry what they are comfortable with then force them to carry what I prefer. Same feeling I have for revolvers, I would never carry one, but others swear by them. I think if people spent more time training, they would get more comfortable with different style of pistols. That being said, y'all don't have to always act like you are superior gun owners. We all support the same thing and I hope we all respect each other the same.
Solid post, particularly the end.
BCStalk said:
That being said, y'all don't have to always act like you are superior gun owners. We all support the same thing and I hope we all respect each other the same.
Not sure if you're referring to people who shoot striker fired guns, or people who carry a handgun instead of a handgun shaped brick here.
If it's the striker fired thing, I shoot both hammer and striker fired and think brand loyalists are stupid so you're barking up the wrong tree. If you're talking about carrying handgun shaped bricks, there are a ton of reasons carrying with an empty chamber is a bad idea. The only reason it could possibly be a good idea is if you're uncomfortable with the firearm (in which case you need more training) or you don't have a holster (in which case you need a holster).
There's not a trainer I know of who advocates carrying an unloaded gun for self defense. There's no snobbery or sense of superiority involved, I just don't want any more bad information out there than is already out there. If you're carrying with an empty chamber, then you need more training. That's not me looking down on someone, that's me trying to look out for someone by helping them improve and learn.
If anything, this event should show you how "dangerous" carrying with a loaded chamber is.
He did a backflip, had his gun slide from his holster and slam into the ground but nothing bad happened until he pulled the trigger.
A loaded weapon isn't unsafe, poor discipline is.
He did a backflip, had his gun slide from his holster and slam into the ground but nothing bad happened until he pulled the trigger.
A loaded weapon isn't unsafe, poor discipline is.
I agree w you, thought he was talking about striker weapons.
BenderRodriguez said:BCStalk said:
That being said, y'all don't have to always act like you are superior gun owners. We all support the same thing and I hope we all respect each other the same.
If you're carrying with an empty chamber, then you need more training. That's not me looking down on someone, that's me trying to look out for someone by helping them improve and learn.
Folks get super defensive with this subject, no pun intended. So even though you mean no harm and are tying to inform/educate/help, including your last line of text in the original post would help assure the recipient you are indeed trying to help. You know your stuff, but some folks don't know that about you or haven't had a chance to meet you personally to see what a solid dude you are. My 2 cents.
LBM-Aggie-2014 said:Yelnick McWawa said:BCStalk said:BenderRodriguez said:
Comfort/familiarity thing, right?
Take a class that teaches you how to draw from a holster, use a quality holster, and you'll overcome that unease about carrying a loaded gun.
Honestly if you aren't comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, your mindset likely isn't in the place you need it to be to effectively use a firearm for self defense.
Like most of us, you should take some more training classes.
I have to disagree a tiny bit. Some people just don't trust striker fire pistols no matter the amount of training. I do keep mine loaded at all times unless it's in a safe. I have a few friends that wouldn't ever carry chambered that had plenty of training. They switched to a hammered pistol that they felt safe with. Dunno if that's the case here but it's something to discuss. I would not be caught dead with an unchambered gun. Especially when seconds matter.
The only way a striker fired pistol fires a round is if the trigger is pulled. Period. Your friends are paranoid, plain and simple.
Not so fast...
Unless there is a failing internal part or the weapon itself is just a piece of junk from some no name manufacturer or some such, a striker fired pistol (and most all modern "hammered") will not discahrge when dropped.
99.999% of ND's from a dropped pistol are caused by someone trying to catch it/pick it up and their booger hook getting caught on the bang switch. See video in the OP as exhibit A.
Having said that, as we all know, you can never be too safe with a gun so avoiding dropping them in the first place (especially during a backflip while intoxicated) is highly encouraged.
So why the smart comment about 1911s? I think they carry a Sig and a CZ. Both with hammers. They like them and feel safe carrying them. No reason to make assumptions about them. At least they had enough sense to find a pistol they could carry chambered.
Sasappis said:CactusThomas said:Your Friend said:
I've never taken any training courses but I couldnt imagaine carrying that thing around chambered so I'm probably the type of person that shouldn't try!
Nothing wrong with that. I respect your position.
But you should understand that with some training it is safe to carry with one in the chamber. Not saying you should or shouldn't take the training.
I really do not understand why people want to judge others over this debate. It is undeniable that not having a round chambered is safer than having one chambered. Obviously that safety factor comes at the expense of speed and readiness in the event the weapon is needed but that is just one of countless balancing acts people have to consider.
If someone is willing to trade that decrease in speed and readiness for an increase in safety, why is that anyone else's concern beside the person carrying?
That person carrying without a round chambered is still infinitely more prepared and capable than someone not carrying at all.
Nothing about my post was judgmental. In fact, I made that very clear. Not sure why you are trying to argue with me when we have the same position on the issue.
BCStalk said:
So why the smart comment about 1911s? I think they carry a Sig and a CZ. Both with hammers. They like them and feel safe carrying them. No reason to make assumptions about them. At least they had enough sense to find a pistol they could carry chambered.
I believe Bender specifically cited the series 70's 1911's/Colts. Series 70's do not have a firing pin block, meaning that they technically are not drop safe. Since there's always a chance of discharge if it's dropped, though I think that Colt specifically has lightened the firing pin in the current production series 70's to lessen the chance.
I believe both CZ and Sig's of current manufacture have firing pin blocks. Additionally, unlike Glocks, M&P's, and other various striker fires pistols the p320's do not have a frame safety mechanism. Which was part of the reason why the p320's had the voluntary recall, as they found the weight to partially be a problem. As part of that recall in addition to reducing the trigger shoe weight with the new shoe, Sig also added/changed components of the trigger system.
Quote:
You carry a pistol with an empty chamber?
There's nothing earth-shatteringly wrong with this. You MUST be proficient with your weapon (which you should be at any rate). An on-duty LEO would NEVER carry without a round chambered but I'd recommend most CCW individuals carry unchambered for a while until they get totally comfortable with their weapon.
BenderRodriguez said:Your Friend said:
So keeps a chambered pistol in his pants?
You carry a pistol with an empty chamber?
I sure as hell do. The chances of a discharge are far greater than the chance that I will find myself in a situation where I can't chamber a round.
There are compelling cases for the use of each different weapon condition. It comes down to the individual shooter, platform, and conditions under which he/she will be carrying. There isn't a unilateral correct answer on how to carry a firearm.
dr_boogs said:
Folks get super defensive with this subject, no pun intended. So even though you mean no harm and are tying to inform/educate/help, including your last line of text in the original post would help assure the recipient you are indeed trying to help. You know your stuff, but some folks don't know that about you or haven't had a chance to meet you personally to see what a solid dude you are. My 2 cents.
Apparently so. I made a crack about how stupid it was assuming folks were aware of how stupid it is, making the joke about the dancing FBI agent funny.
Didn't realize I was going to hurt feelings with it.
Kind of okay with hurting feelings with it if it gets anyone to rethink doing it. As I mentioned in my actual response to the guy I originally asked about carrying an unloaded gun, I completely get being uncomfortable carrying a loaded gun. It's a weird feeling. If you're not comfortable doing so, the answer isn't to carry an unloaded gun (for lots of reasons), the answer is to get more training.
I'll stand by that, and the joke.
queso1 said:
I sure as hell do. The chances of a discharge are far greater than the chance that I will find myself in a situation where I can't chamber a round.
Counterpoint I'd like you and the other empty chamber advocates to think about:
The vast majority of NDs happen when someone thinks they're handling an unloaded weapon. Carrying a gun you "know" has an empty chamber is a recipe for a careless accident. The chances of a gun going off when someone pulls a trigger at home on a gun they "know" is unloaded is far greater than the chances of needing a gun for any kind of self defense, if we're going to start talking about the most likely scenarios.
Carrying an unloaded firearm breeds complacency for how a firearm should be handled.
jabberwalkie09 said:BCStalk said:
So why the smart comment about 1911s? I think they carry a Sig and a CZ. Both with hammers. They like them and feel safe carrying them. No reason to make assumptions about them. At least they had enough sense to find a pistol they could carry chambered.
I believe Bender specifically cited the series 70's 1911's/Colts. Series 70's do not have a firing pin block, meaning that they technically are not drop safe. Since there's always a chance of discharge if it's dropped, though I think that Colt specifically has lightened the firing pin in the current production series 70's to lessen the chance.
I very specifically mentioned the 1911s for that exact reason: a lot of them are not drop safe, but people feel more comfortable handling a firearm with a hammer that isn't drop safe than a striker fired gun that is.
That's poor logic.
May I ask how many times you've had a loaded and chambered firearm pointed at another person that was a threat to you?
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