Sasappis said:

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My comment wasn't directed to you necessarily. But I do think there are some folks on here that are judgmental about the issue.

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If you think I'm judgmental about it, take a class with any one of the big, nationally known firearms trainers.

Ask them what they think about carrying an empty gun.

They're going to say far more judgmental things about it than my little joke about carrying an unloaded gun being stupid.

I made a joke about it being stupid, but scroll down a little further and see the actual advice I offered (without calling anyone stupid, by the way). If you're uncomfortable carrying a loaded gun, seek out some more training. There is not a serious trainer I know of in the US who would ever advocate for carrying an unloaded gun. There's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with what I think. When there is near universal consensus on a topic from the people who spend the most time doing it, discussing it, thinking about it and practicing it....that might be a clue that they're doing something you should think about doing to.

If Hillary was careless but not negligent, surely this dude will be judged so as well. It would be nice to put mueller though his thought process on this.

Sasappis said:

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The problem with your logic is that you are assuming that someone who chooses to carry without a round chambered is either not properly trained or needs more training to be comfortable. You are completely and incorrectly dismissing the idea that someone who is trained, proficient and comfortable with their firearm could not or would not make the decision to carry with a round unchambered. That is the exact reason I made my comment about just because you have come to a decision on what is best for yourself, and someone else has come to a different conclusion, does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

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I'm going to pull a BCStalk here and ask you what your experience level is. What classes have you taken? What competitions have you shot? In short, what experiences do you have that led you to the conclusion you're making in this thread that both choices are equally good for self defense?

As for the rest: No offense is taken on my end by anyone disagreeing with me, because you're not actually disagreeing with me. I'm not the one you're arguing against here. Take me completely out of the equation. Pretend I don't exist, my opinion doesn't exist, my posts don't exist. I am nothing. Now that I'm out of the picture: every single nationally known firearms trainer, many of whom have spent years in law enforcement or the military and have been in gunfights ALL teach and recommend carrying a loaded gun for self defense instead of an unloaded gun. Why is that?

Going to share a quick video of some violent encounters.

Watch these and ask yourself if you'd feel safer with a loaded gun in a secure holster to respond with, or an unloaded gun?



Violence is often quick and unexpected. If you're going to carry for self defense, carrying in a way that allows you to respond as quickly as possible is a good idea. I've shot a lot of competitions where we start in various positions/conditions: gun loaded in holster, unloaded gun in holster, unloaded gun on table in front of you, etc. I can say positively I've never once been faster on target starting with an unloaded gun instead of a loaded one.

I figured as much. I was not offended.

Sasappis said:

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BenderRodriguez said:

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I'm going to pull a BCStalk here and ask you what your experience level is. What classes have you taken? What competitions have you shot? In short, what experiences do you have that led you to the conclusion you're making in this thread that both choices are equally good for self defense?

As for the rest: No offense is taken on my end by anyone disagreeing with me, because you're not actually disagreeing with me. I'm not the one you're arguing against here. Take me completely out of the equation. Pretend I don't exist, my opinion doesn't exist, my posts don't exist. I am nothing. Now that I'm out of the picture: every single nationally known firearms trainer, many of whom have spent years in law enforcement or the military and have been in gunfights ALL teach and recommend carrying a loaded gun for self defense instead of an unloaded gun. Why is that?

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I have not made the conclusion that both choices are equally good for self defense. In fact, I specifically stated earlier that when someone carries with unchambered they are giving up speed and readiness. So from a self defense perspective, the choices are clearly not equal. As I said earlier, there is trade off between everything in life.

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You're right, you did. It's been a long day and I didn't clearly reflect what you had said. Let's try to word that question a different way: what experiences do you have that makes you think an unloaded gun isn't a great enough liability in a self defense scenario to make it a bad option?

The second question you bolded still stands as well.

BCStalk said:

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My problem is you can't just give a simple suggestions without criticizing someone. I don't understand why it is so hard to be friendly to the people who share the same goal as you.

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I made a joke about empty chamber carry being almost as stupid as backflips while carrying. It was a joke. If it offended you or you thought that was mean, I'm sorry but.....J-O-K-E. I wasn't trying to call out anyone with that, just making a joke.

I didn't tell the guy I asked about carrying an unloaded gun to not carry (though I can see how it could be read that way), I said that if you're not comfortable with carrying a loaded gun, you're probably also not comfortable with the realities of having to potentially use one in self defense, and recommended training to overcome both issues. I made those recommendations to him based on how I felt when I started carrying, and what helped me to overcome those completely rational fears. I also didn't call him stupid, or anyone else in this thread stupid, as far as I can recall. If you'd like to point out where I'm criticizing posters here specifically, I'd like to take a look and see where I'm coming across wrong because that's not my intent in this thread.

I haven't called anyone names, and I promise you my responses are kind and gentle compared to the response you'd get anywhere else in the gun world besides TexAgs if you started talking about carrying an unloaded gun.

I'm sorry you think I'm being unfriendly. I certainly don't mean to be. I am critical of bad ideas and will continue to be so, and I consider carrying an unloaded gun for self defense to be a bad idea. But I didn't mean to and don't intend to attack or criticize individuals here and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm doing the latter instead of the former. I don't always get my ideas across as easily as I'd like to, and I'm certainly not here to trash other Ags.

ETA: Damn it, I misclicked the emoticon for this post too. See what I mean about not communicating well sometimes?

GottaRide said:

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What is it with your "unloaded gun" phrase? Unchambered vs unloaded have universal meaning to most folks, yet you are making a point of saying it in every post. There is not a single person on here that is talking about carrying an empty gun.

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It's intentional.

Watch the youtube video posted above. In a violent encounter where you cannot chamber a round (due to someone being on top of you attacking you, an injury to one of your arms/hands, having to create distance with your off hand, using an off hand to shield/protect a loved one or child, etc), your unchambered gun is and will remain an unloaded gun for the duration of the encounter.

It's a way of getting people to think in a different way about whether or not they'll have both hands and the time available to change their gun from unchambered to where it should be in the first place if you're going to use it for self defense.

Back to the topic at hand, in the video I saw of this the guy's face wasn't blurred out and he walked away smiling/smirking. If he doesn't AT LEAST get fired for this then the FBI ought to be ashamed. That being said, has anyone actually confirmed this guy is an FBI agent? Every FBI agent I've personally known was all business and probably wouldn't be caught dead in that scene.

The story is on MSN this morning and part of the article says "Responding officers took the agent to police headquarters, where he was released to an FBI supervisor, the Denver Post reported"

MROD92 said:

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Irish_Man said:

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His career is done

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I'll guarantee you it won't be

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If he was drinking, you can say his career and about1-2 years of his life are! Bet on it

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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For my money, the video of the DEA agent that shot his own foot in a elementary school classroom was always the top dog.

Now... this ******-****** comes along and totally one-up's him. Not only does he pull the trigger and injure a third party bystander; he does it after having lost his weapon doing a drunken backflip.

And the cherry on top is he is at the nation's premier law enforcement agency.

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ehhh......hold the phone there!

I initially thought the pistol discharged mid-backflip

IceCream14 said:

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I initially thought the pistol discharged mid-backflip

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If that's what actually happened...

nm