dude95 said:

---

cpsencik04 said:

---

dude95 said:

---

.

I'm also from small town-Texas - and while I don't own a gun, I understand our heritage and understand that's not going away. I'm ok with hunting rifles and pistols. Don't understand our ability to get AR's though. Or guns that can be modified to them. I understand the allure of shooting them...it would be cool :-) I have to feel that these mass shooters would at least be slowed down without them.

---

This is the statement right here where it is obvious you dont have a clue....from what you wrote, or how you wrote, I assume you think all AR's are automatic rifles, maybe you even think that is what AR stands for. I make this assumption because you said guns that can be modified into them. An AR is an AR, I can not modify a hunting rifle into an AR, I can not modify a shotgun into an AR it is just a style of semi automatic rifle. just FYI AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle Model 15, Armalite was the first creator of the style...

Also for the record this kid didnt have an Automatic rifle....

---

Gee....could have sworn I stated I wasn't a gun owner. But I appreciate the insult anyway.

Here's my statement. Hunting rifles and pistols I get and can't see any way in the world that that is taken away anywhere in the near future. There is a purpose that I agree with.

I don't agree with auto and semi-automatic weapons for the same reason that I don't think our citizens should have rocket launchers or even hand grenades for that matter. They are too deadly for public consumption.

If you believe the proper way of holding government in check is with these types of weapons, then we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Generally, that flies in war-torn countries, but I don't want to be in a place like that. I believe my politicians are beholden to votes and feel the ones who will pickup an AR-15 to solve governmental problems are nutcases. I really can't think of a scenario that picking up a gun to keep our government in line is ever a rational idea.

Again - I have no issue with hunting and self-defense. We do have limits to what guns can be owned right now - my question as well as many people's question this morning is why automatic and semi-automatic rifles have to be ok?

---

Automatic rifles aren't readily available outside of hollywood movies. So let's keep the discussion in the real world. As for semi-auto rifles, why shouldn't they be ok? Please be specific.

So what is different today? That's the biggest question in my mind and a question that most people want to ignor completely. I graduated high school in '95.

1. Social media. I did not see the internet until I was at A&M. Probably in 96. Kids in my generation had no clue what that was.
2. Guns. Nope. We all had guns. And the laws are not vastly different today than they were then.
3. Church? Hard to say and even harder to say whether or not that would make a difference.
4. Drugs. Nope. We had them.
5. Video games/entertainment for kids. Completely different today. We had an Atari.
6. Movies glorifying violence. Probably no different.
7. Dealing with crazies. Completely different today but that change was in full force by the 1980s.

My somewhat uneducated guess is the problems are how we deal with the crazy people who are fueled by social media and glorified violence.

agsalaska said:

---

So what is different today? That's the biggest question in my mind and a question that most people want to ignor completely. I graduated high school in '95.

1. Social media. I did not see the internet until I was at A&M. Probably in 96. Kids in my generation had no clue what that was.
2. Guns. Nope. We all had guns. And the laws are not vastly different today than they were then.
3. Church? Hard to say and even harder to say whether or not that would make a difference.
4. Drugs. Nope. We had them.
5. Video games/entertainment for kids. Completely different today. We had an Atari.
6. Movies glorifying violence. Probably no different.
7. Dealing with crazies. Completely different today but that change was in full force by the 1980s.

My somewhat uneducated guess is the problems are how we deal with the crazy people who are fueled by social media and glorified violence.

---

I'd add media, without the social in front, also. I don't recall 24 hr news stations back then. Combine that with distribution of news via social media and events like this reach a lot more people than they probably did a little over 20 yrs ago.

Exactly! Removing guns won't take away the threat. OKC used fertilizer. Others have used automobiles. 911 used box cutters and airplanes.

To dovetail that comment, media needs to quit providing notoriety to mass murderers.

Going to disagree on #4. We didn't pump prescription drugs into kids for every single ailment, real or perceived 20+ years ago.

It is not the entire problem, but i believe it is a major contributing factor.

agsalaska said:

---

So what is different today? That's the biggest question in my mind and a question that most people want to ignor completely. I graduated high school in '95.

1. Social media. I did not see the internet until I was at A&M. Probably in 96. Kids in my generation had no clue what that was.
2. Guns. Nope. We all had guns. And the laws are not vastly different today than they were then.
3. Church? Hard to say and even harder to say whether or not that would make a difference.
4. Drugs. Nope. We had them.
5. Video games/entertainment for kids. Completely different today. We had an Atari.
6. Movies glorifying violence. Probably no different.
7. Dealing with crazies. Completely different today but that change was in full force by the 1980s.

My somewhat uneducated guess is the problems are how we deal with the crazy people who are fueled by social media and glorified violence.

---

you left off parents who are afraid to hurt their kids feelings and instead want to be cool and be their kids friend. That in my opinion is the biggest issue. I grew up with internet in school during high school, i played video games growing up but i was taught the difference. Parents, they are the problem. My hope is that my age bracket (those 28-35 or so) who are just starting out with young families are seeing what is going on and realizing the errors of what the parents of todays teens have screwed up. With seeing that taking into account how we were raised and understanding why our parents did things the way that they did and go back.

My kids are 2 and 4, on a daily basis I yell at hem, discipline them, tell them no, spank them, etc...it pisses them off, tantrums are thrown,at times my son will try and get angrier and maybe throw something and then he realizes the poor decision he made when his little but hurts moment later. And yet at the end of the day, when I tuck him into bed He still tells me he loves me, gives me hugs and kisses and on most nights lets me know that he is my best friend and I tell him that he is too. kind need discipline....want discipline. And it is on the parents to provide it

cpsencik04 said:

---

you left off parents who are afraid to hurt their kids feelings and instead want to be cool and be their kids friend. That in my opinion is the biggest issue.

---

I agree with you to a large extent. I've witnessed this in my own personal life (parents trying to be their kid's best friend) and it doesn't end well. No one shot up a school. But a loved one spent too many years battling drug addiction because parents were too busy appeasing instead of disciplining.

The other thing I have a hard time understanding is the general downward trajectory of society and the escalation of hate and vitriol. Whether its talking heads and pundits on TV screaming at each other or the guy who got out of his car in bumper-to-bumper traffic last week to challenge me to a fight, why can't people just chill out?

Have people always walked around like powder kegs? I don't think so.

To me the three largest contributors are:

1. Prescription drugs over-use. They have a place, but I believe we have let that pendulum swing too far.

2. Zero tolerance policies. We have so villainized the idea of any kind of violence that we have removed a natural outlet for young boys/men. "Meeting at the tracks" or a scuffle in the locker room was once an outlet for that misplaced hormonal anger. Now, we seem to do anything to avoid allowing that releasef and it has the potential to build up to dangerous levels for some children.

3. As mentioned above, parents. My generation (I'm 43, my son is 17) has failed in large part at tough love.

Unrelated to guns, some of you think you have much more control over your kids behavior/environment/safety than you do. Either your kids are very young or you're very naive. That's ok for what it's worth, ignorance is bliss and for the most part you can't really defend against the many dangers they will face in life.

96ags said:

---

To me the three largest contributors are:

1. Prescription drugs over-use. They have a place, but I believe we have let that pendulum swing too far.

2. Zero tolerance policies. We have so villainized the idea of any kind of violence that we have removed a natural outlet for young boys/men. "Meeting at the tracks" or a scuffle in the locker room was once an outlet for that misplaced hormonal anger. Now, we seem to do anything to avoid allowing that releasef and it has the potential to build up to dangerous levels for some children.

3. As mentioned above, parents. My generation (I'm 43, my son is 17) has failed in large part at tough love.

---

I do NOT understand zero tolerance. I understand it for the aggressor, but for the kid that turns around and beats the snot out of some turd....that's stupid. But I digress....

Im a gun owner and roots in SE Texas and South Louisiana. I get it.

If the price of freedom are these shootings in schools - the price is too high and it certainly is not "Freedom".

Bottom line is we all give up something to "be free".

All laws known to man "could be circumvented if a person really wanted to".

Until I got TSA Pre, take my laptop out of a damn backpack, shoes off, and stand in a scanner. There are stop lights, speed traps, usury laws, embezzlement, fraud, etc.

Smart guidelines and boundaries are foundation of a free society.

Smart guidelines don't happen without admitting a problem, and coming to the table with solutions, and holding law makers accountable (about as likely as predicting and preempting 'mental health' issues).

mays04 said:

---

If the price of freedom are these shootings in schools - the price is too high and it certainly is not "Freedom".

---

Nope. Not at all.

mays04 said:

---

Im a gun owner and roots in SE Texas and South Louisiana. I get it.

If the price of freedom are these shootings in schools - the price is too high and it certainly is not "Freedom".

Bottom line is we all give up something to "be free".

All laws known to man "could be circumvented if a person really wanted to".

Until I got TSA Pre, take my laptop out of a damn backpack, shoes off, and stand in a scanner. There are stop lights, speed traps, usury laws, embezzlement, fraud, etc.

Smart guidelines and boundaries are foundation of a free society.

Smart guidelines don't happen without admitting a problem, and coming to the table with solutions, and holding law makers accountable (about as likely as predicting and preempting 'mental health' issues).

---

I think EVERYONE knows there is a problem. Killing children is a problem. Were we run into issues is that the solutions brought to the table won't solve the problem. It's like realizing you have a light that burns out every other day and deciding that the best solution is to buy bulbs by the gross. That's dumb. The other side of this coin is realizing that rights will have to be trampled on multiple accounts to accomplish the 'control' that some want to accomplish. I won't go for that. This issue is not a problem of guns, politicians, lawmakers, attorneys, crazy people.....the problem is society...and its a very deep issue with ZERO QUICK FIXES. It is a problem that took generations to get to and it is a problem that will take generations to fix. Mark it. The sooner everyone realizes this, the sooner we can all collectively fix it.

Do you know why I never took a gun to school? Or a big ass knife? Because it was wrong? No. Because I didn't want someone to die? No. It was because if I got caught, my old man would break the barrel or blade off in my ass until I understood what was appropriate in society.

Quote:

---

I really can't think of a scenario that picking up a gun to keep our government in line is ever a rational idea.

---

The founders of our country say hello

Stupidity and a power grab by DC/a law that everyone thought SCOTUS was going to strike down.

The best "meme" I saw on this was how no one blames anyone but rapists for rape, but the talking heads want to blame everything except the killer for mass shootings.

I will say one thing which has really changed is that it is now far more difficult to have someone committed, and keep them committed.

dude95 said:

---

cpsencik04 said:

---

dude95 said:

---

.

I'm also from small town-Texas - and while I don't own a gun, I understand our heritage and understand that's not going away. I'm ok with hunting rifles and pistols. Don't understand our ability to get AR's though. Or guns that can be modified to them. I understand the allure of shooting them...it would be cool :-) I have to feel that these mass shooters would at least be slowed down without them.

---

This is the statement right here where it is obvious you dont have a clue....from what you wrote, or how you wrote, I assume you think all AR's are automatic rifles, maybe you even think that is what AR stands for. I make this assumption because you said guns that can be modified into them. An AR is an AR, I can not modify a hunting rifle into an AR, I can not modify a shotgun into an AR it is just a style of semi automatic rifle. just FYI AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle Model 15, Armalite was the first creator of the style...

Also for the record this kid didnt have an Automatic rifle....

---

Gee....could have sworn I stated I wasn't a gun owner. But I appreciate the insult anyway.

Here's my statement. Hunting rifles and pistols I get and can't see any way in the world that that is taken away anywhere in the near future. There is a purpose that I agree with.

I don't agree with auto and semi-automatic weapons for the same reason that I don't think our citizens should have rocket launchers or even hand grenades for that matter. They are too deadly for public consumption.

If you believe the proper way of holding government in check is with these types of weapons, then we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Generally, that flies in war-torn countries, but I don't want to be in a place like that. I believe my politicians are beholden to votes and feel the ones who will pickup an AR-15 to solve governmental problems are nutcases. I really can't think of a scenario that picking up a gun to keep our government in line is ever a rational idea.

Again - I have no issue with hunting and self-defense. We do have limits to what guns can be owned right now - my question as well as many people's question this morning is why automatic and semi-automatic rifles have to be ok?

---

I hunt with an AR15. Best tool for the type of hunting I do with it. It's really not that much different than the Semi hunting rifle my grandfather used except it has less power. It does, however, look scarier to some people.

So, yeah, I own a gun store. Right here, right now, I'm talking as a citizen. That word, "Citizen", means something very real, and very specific. There are definitely rights and privileges associated with being a citizen, but it also carries very real responsibilities. Look back through history and there is example after example of the ruling government becoming too bloated and dying. In the throes of death, it can and will do very bad things to try to keep itself alive. In the US, with the form of government that we have, those in power will continually try to stay in power. You see it now in government. In many instances, politicians are not worried about what is best for the country, they are worried about what is best for their reelection. So, when things get too bad--and someday they will, it may be soon or it may be a long time--then those who are in power will seek to stay in power by giving more and more to their vote givers. This will be very bad. As citizens, it is our duty to correct our government before it gets too bad. This is done first at the polls, but even that is not fool proof. When the country goes too far, and some day it will, having an armed citizenry will prevent the government from doing horrible things. You may not think it possible, but the Jews that lived in Germany didn't think it possible before the holocaust, either, or they would have left.

You may think I'm crazy and paranoid. I'm not. I'm literally looking at history and understanding that it can and will repeat itself. We have one of the greatest countries that ever existed, but we've only been here for 240ish years. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Rome, Greece, ancient China, ancient Egypt, etc etc all had longer reigns as the preeminent world power than we have and we are speeding faster into problems than they did. I think you're the crazy one for not looking at past history and realizing that it can and will repeat itself. We aren't going to be the last super power.

As to why semi and even full auto should be ok, look back at the founding of our country. Our militias were outfitted with militiamen who owned the top tier military tech of the day. Our militiamen were using black power rifles when the English were using smoothbore muskets. Who supplied those rifles? Wasn't our fledgling government, it was the militiaman. It was his own gun. So, the top tier military tech of the day was owned by.... everybody? Yep. So, when designing the constitution, when the right to bare arms was established, it was enacted with the very real idea that the everyday citizen would have access to the same technology available to our military. Partly because that would help rebuff any enemy invading force--remember the Japanese were terrified of invading the US as "every blade of grass would have a man with a gun behind it"--and partly because we are a society that came about due to revolution. It's in our blood and our heritage. If the government fails, then it is up to us to fix it by any means necessary. Not something I ever want to see in my day. But, if it gets that bad, it is and should be an option.

Without reading anything about the shooting since this morning I've seen homeboy at least a dozen times through various media/social media platforms. Definitely part of the problem.

It's absolutely part of the problem, in addition to giving this psycho publicity, most people don't even hold him 100% accountable... they blame republicans, the NRA, the guns, etc instead of the actual villain.

It's very disturbing.

TXAGFAN said:

---

Unrelated to guns, some of you think you have much more control over your kids behavior/environment/safety than you do. Either your kids are very young or you're very naive. That's ok for what it's worth, ignorance is bliss and for the most part you can't really defend against the many dangers they will face in life.

---

No offense here, but the generation of parents right now that have 10-19 year olds definitely "think" they do but they dont have anything near what they should. Im not talking about coddling them and making sure they dont go to a park unaccompanied or any BS like that I am talking about controlling their behavior. You wouldn't believe the number of parents I talk to when I call home about grades or conduct in class or any other number of reasons who either dont bother answering/returning calls, tell me they've tried everything, they dont now what to do anymore etc.....Here's an idea dont buy your little turd/brat a $700 phone, if they do something wrong take it away. Dont buy your little turd/brat multiple pair of $100-$150 shoes. Take that crap away from them and control them to the point the will do what you say. Or a really good idea....instill discipline and keep the discipline from an early age so that you arent fighting the issue in high school from behind the 8 ball. BE A PARENT, God forbid it may even impede your life and your ability to do as you please but isnt it worth it to know that you are raising someone that is going to be a productive society member not a drain on the rest of us

This is the response that needs to sink in. History is what has been forgotten and even worse deleted. I will never be caught helpless and unable to defend myself, my family or my friends. This is my right given to me at birth and no one has the authority to take that away. Do you think government officials with security will lose their Glocks and ARs for revolvers and bolt action rifles with stricter gun laws? Definitely not.

From seeing some of the videos of the shooting, there are a few thoughts that come to mind.

1. Why are the students not hiding, taking cover or fleeing? Do whatever it takes to get out of view or out of the building even if it means knocking out a window. One video showed all kids sitting in their seats when police cleared the room. Maybe shock just makes people freeze.

2. These students have their phones out taking video of the shooting and the people shot/deceased. This group of kids has become desensitized to these type of things or are more interested in getting it for social media that what is actually going on around them.

I would also echo what others have said about our Founding Fathers. Such was put in writing by them to ensure that the government does not overstep its boundaries.

I can't keep up with the Facebook bull ***** I have people on there literally telling me the constitution is outdated and is like "you're grandfather who means well but says really ****ed up **** that we all have to go in the other room and figure out how to fix."


It's infuriating. You cannot combat these people. There is an inherent logical fallacy hardwired into their brains....I truly believe there is a developmental disorder of some sort going on with a lot of people.

Quote:

---

Disarming of citizens by the government will not happen in our lifetime. I truly believe Texas would secede before and/or if such were to occur.

---

I agree, but it's not my lifetime I am trying to preserve.

KW02 said:

---

Disarming of citizens by the government will not happen in our lifetime. I truly believe Texas would secede before and/or if such were to occur.

Here are the idiotic comments i saw this morning on facebook on how to solve the problem.

"Prohibit firearms."

"Get rid of all guns except non-automatic hunting rifles. Yep. That's where I am. We are a fear-driven backwards country in this regard it's a national disgrace."

---

We should be in fear. Fear is not a bad thing in and of itself. It keeps you aware of what is going on. I am afraid of what is happening to the country. Do I live in fear? Absolutely not. I go about my life and live it the way that I WANT TO.

Now as to Texas seceeding... two things there. We're shifting purple and will eventually be blue unless things change. You can thank the urban areas for that. On top of that, the odds of them going Australia style are pretty much nil. It'll be death by a thousand papercuts, which is why a lot of us are "not another inch" people. We are too fractured as a lobby. Too many people, some have responded on this thread, that are part of the gun owners of the world and are ok with limits on ARs and such. Either they don't use them so "it wouldn't affect them" or they flat out have a different out look. Problem is, after they go after the black rifles, next will be semi auto handguns, then semi shotguns then there is no one else to help defend their hunting rifles.