I was watching a show where a guy got a ticket for not having a plug. Why do the gun makers allow more than three shells since that seems to be the law in most states? Why is the law in place? I mean if you suck at shooting what is the deal if you have 5 shots vs. three?

Hunting game birds is only one legitimate use of a shotgun, which is the only time you're limited to three shells.

I think you are limited to 3shells on migratory birds ..ie doves, ducks, geese. I think tou can take the plug out for quail and turkey.

Fish and Wildlife Service

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Unplugged shotguns. You cannot hunt migratory game birds with a shotgun that can hold more than three shells, unless you plug it with a one-piece filler that cannot be removed without disassembling the gun.

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Shotguns with > 3 shell capacity are legal for other uses.

Only applies to migratory game birds, not all game birds. Goes back to when they started cracking down on market hunting. Same principle as to why you can't used anything larger than a 10 gauge on migratory game birds.

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 4/3/2013 11:21p).]

I understand the law but why is 3 the magic number?

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I understand the law but why is 3 the magic number?

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So it takes people like me longer to burn through a case of shells, it's not like I would hit it if I had 4 anyway!

It boils down to the history and general ethics of the time. Most of the duck hunters at the time were still using SxS, the market hunters were starting to explore the early semis. They were quickly latching onto tube extenders that could give them 10+ shots. There was already grumbling against the use of more than 2 shots. Now look at 1934, waterfowl numbers were at an all time low, with several species on the verge of extinction. The compromise ended up being 3.

There was some limited argument at the time that anything over 3 shots tended to be more wounding than anything if you actually hit them. I know that has been brought up during more contemporary discussions of the matter.

Side bar...

What is the most doves you have killed with 1 shot?

I've dropped 3 with 1 shot before.

My dad claims to have shot 3 times into a group and dropped 11 back in the 70s in Mexico.

does this count as disassembly?

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 4/4/2013 12:19a).]

Good question, and I don't have a legit answer. I've wondered about those, but never remember it when I standing there with a game warden.

Nevermind, it was pretty easy to find....
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-rossi-rifles/49378-illegal-hunt-circuit-judge.html

So, NO.

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 4/4/2013 12:28a).]

That's the opposite of what I've heard and still seems to be speculation.

Does removing the ammunition feeding mechanism not count as disassembly? It does in other cases, like removing the spring cap from an 870 to put the plug in. Very simple and easy to do without tools.

I guess it just depends on which game warden you talk to.

I found it a little funny when I found the plug that came with mine. My first thought was, "how many dove do they expect me to take with a .410 revolver?"

I don't know the answer to the question, but I've seen many occasions where a hunter fired all three shots at one bird and it continues to fly on its merry way. If you can't get it in three then I don't think you're gonna get it with a 4th or 5th shot either.

I don't need anymore than 3. When I was a kid hunting with my dad he used to laugh and say if I missed with the first two, I always gave them a "go to hell" third shot!

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If you can't get it in three then I don't think you're gonna get it with a 4th or 5th shot either.

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really the only benefit would be the convenience of not having to stick more shells in after every bird or two flies by.

True, but if you're anything like me you've become pretty good at reloading as you walk out to retrieve your downed bird(s).

Hell if you're like me, you can whiff on both rounds out of your O/U, crack it open, reload and whiff on two more. All on the same bird.

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Hell if you're like me, you can whiff on both rounds out of your O/U, crack it open, reload and whiff on two more. All on the same bird.

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That sounds like it comes from a lot of practice!

that's actually one of the best parts about bird hunting; getting to dick around with your gun and ammo a lot.

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Side bar...

What is the most doves you have killed with 1 shot?

I've dropped 3 with 1 shot before.

My dad claims to have shot 3 times into a group and dropped 11 back in the 70s in Mexico.

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I do a lot worse on groups of birds. I think I have issues focusing on one. If its a single or double then I don't seem to have the same issue. My indecisiveness spills over into hunting, I suppose.

That's a good question by Texas Rebel. I think it counts, but will ask the Game Warden the next time I see him.

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If you can't get it in three then I don't think you're gonna get it with a 4th or 5th shot either.

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I agree except with pheasant. They typically don't flush all at once.

I think it also has to do with having multiple birds down in the field. At times 1 or 2 birds can be hard to find and sometimes lost. Can you imagine 4,5, or 7 down before going to retrieve?

I was just about to bring up pheasant. You don't have to have a plug in your gun when hunting pheasant (in South Dakota at least). Not sure about Texas. Every year pretty much any new guy on the hunt/first time pheasant hunter scoffs at taking your plug out, typically saying the same thing, "If you can't hit them with three, then you might as well not shoot the 4th or 5th.." Then we get into our first big flush towards the end of a big food plot when they start shooting out of there like Roman Candles. They always take that plug out before we move on to the next spot.

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Does removing the ammunition feeding mechanism not count as disassembly? It does in other cases, like removing the spring cap from an 870 to put the plug in. Very simple and easy to do without tools.

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Many shotguns operate similarly.

My understanding is that at least a portion of the gun has to be disassembled. Normal loading and unloading operations do not count as disassembly. It doesn't have to require tools, but it does have to be outside of normal weapons operations. Removing the spring cap and installing the plug counts because you are disassembling a portion of the weapon (spring cap). You don't have to do that to load/unload the weapon.

That plug in the circuit judge doesn't count because nothing outside of normal loading/unloading operations has to be done. There is no disassembly. It would be the same as filling the remaining capacity of an 870 with dummy rounds. Is capacity limited to three live rounds? Yes. Was any disassembly required? No. Would you get a ticket for it? Probably so.

[This message has been edited by TechTard (edited 4/4/2013 10:45a).]

So far I am 3 for 3 with wardens saying no.

I'm 1.5 to 0 on them saying yes.

one wasn't sure, the other said he'd allow it.

I guess the next question is... if you don't have any .410 rounds, only .45 Colt, and have it with you as a varmint rifle while dove hunting...

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I think it also has to do with having multiple birds down in the field. At times 1 or 2 birds can be hard to find and sometimes lost. Can you imagine 4,5, or 7 down before going to retrieve?

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Sounds like a problem for my dog, not me.

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Removing the spring cap and installing the plug counts because you are disassembling a portion of the weapon (spring cap). You don't have to do that to load/unload the weapon.

That plug in the circuit judge doesn't count because nothing outside of normal loading/unloading operations has to be done. There is no disassembly

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This could easily be remedied with an expanding screw or plunging anchor that would deform the plug and affix the plug inside the cylinder where it could not be removed except using a tool... or maybe something that would catch on the extractor.

The "single piece" provision might be a problem.

i got a ticket for an unplugged gun once.

i had shot skeet the week before and completely disassembled it to clean afterwards since it probably had about 200+ rounds through it.

forgot to put the plug back in. i figured it out after about my 4th shot duck hunting and i put my gun up and didn't touch it. game warden comes up and i was as upfront as I could be about it to no avail.

live and learn.

If there were a three-shot cylinder made, perhaps with something resembling a permanently attached dummy round in the other chambers. Put some kind of spring-loaded or rubberized primer in the dummy rounds to prevent damage to the firing pin, and I don't see why that would not work.

Then the gun is only capable of holding three shells and does not require a plug. Even if it did, the plug (a modified cylinder) would be one piece and require some disassembly.

Bought an 870 off of a local Aggie that didn't want/need it and took it duck hunting 2 years back. Went all morning loading 3 shells and shooting until we were about to pack up and I just happened to load a 4th shell... Quick trip about the "island" found a nice piece of driftwood that I quickly whittled into a plug. Still using it too.