Trump is a great example of a few huge screwups overshadowing many good things. He's cut a lot of regulation, helped pull the USA out of its stagnant energy production plateau, given the finger to the anti-AI luddites...

But his tariffs were an uncoordinated disaster (I'll never forget the levy on an uninhibited island and ChatGPT formulas), his second term corruption was next level (you could see huge front running in the options and crypto markets every time he made a tariff adjustment), and his Iran war, whether or not you thought it was necessary, has been a poorly planned, disorganized, is-he-in/out mess. Throw in his broken promise over the epstein files, and you have a total failure of a president who took the party down with him.

EFR said:

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amercer said:

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By the summer of 2028 most republicans will act like they've never heard of Trump. Oh that guy? Never liked him that much anyway

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I am already seeing that. This board is an amazing study in that really. Six months ago this board would tar and feather you for not being completely aligned with him. Now people are slowly backing off. I assume that it will end up being like after hated leaders are out of power, suddenly nobody will claim that they supported them.

---

I'm not MAGA, but am conservative.

What happened 6 months ago??? As already mentioned several times on this thread, Trump botched Iran significantly. He should have either pushed harder and taken out more levels of leadership right away, or he should have waited until after midterms and prices would have remained stable.

People vote with pocketbooks. If those are good, then they move on to other priorities. After inflation during Biden, people have been stretched thin. Prices started coming down and become more manageable. Trump playing Iran the way he did completely ****ed that up though.

His first term was a good term. Especially when considered up until COVID. That completely ****ed up his last year, and it would have for any president (although you could argue a Democrat would have been less impacted because the media wouldn't have crucified a Dem president like they did Trump).

His first year this term was strong as well. Closed the border down, gas prices and inflation continued to come down making things more affordable, DOGE was finding massive waste, government workforce was reduced fairly substantially, crime significantly lower, strong GDP.

His failures were not pursuing the taxpayer fund abuse/waste/fraud to hold people actually accountable, not releasing Epstein **** like everyone wanted and Republicans said they would and then the Iran issue I noted earlier.

You can argue tariffs if you want to, but inflation wasn't reflecting a significant impact. His combative way about implementing them could be argued, but it wasn't surprising given Trump's personality. If you focus strictly on what Trump does (meaning policies and direction) and not what comes out of his mouth, then his performance as a President is easier to analyze. Remove Trump being Trump and he had a very strong record up until Iran.

Sid Farkas said:

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Burdizzo said:

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EFR said:

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The fact that people still use the term TDS as an insult is amazing and shows how out of touch maga really is.

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I have always been lukewarm on Trump, but TDS is real. Some people just refuse to be objective because personality and emotion drives their decision making.

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TDS is real. For instance, everyone who said Trump was going to subvert the election on Tues - they all suffer from TDS.

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He absolutely would've tried if it were even remotely close.

Ervin Burrell said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Burdizzo said:

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EFR said:

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The fact that people still use the term TDS as an insult is amazing and shows how out of touch maga really is.

---

I have always been lukewarm on Trump, but TDS is real. Some people just refuse to be objective because personality and emotion drives their decision making.

---

TDS is real. For instance, everyone who said Trump was going to subvert the election on Tues - they all suffer from TDS.

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He absolutely would've tried if it were even remotely close.

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Uh huh..,

wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

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a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

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What an insanely stupid criteria.

Ervin Burrell said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Burdizzo said:

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EFR said:

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The fact that people still use the term TDS as an insult is amazing and shows how out of touch maga really is.

---

I have always been lukewarm on Trump, but TDS is real. Some people just refuse to be objective because personality and emotion drives their decision making.

---

TDS is real. For instance, everyone who said Trump was going to subvert the election on Tues - they all suffer from TDS.

---

He absolutely would've tried if it were even remotely close.

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And Sydney Sweeney would absolutely sleep with me if she just gave me a chance.

Silent For Too Long said:

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wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

---

What an insanely stupid criteria.

---

I won't say there's causation, but there's definitely correlation. You do t get impeached twice without pissing off a bunch of people. Any president at the top of the list has managed to be a good president for the whole country try - not just half.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Trump is a great example of a few huge screwups overshadowing many good things. He's cut a lot of regulation, helped pull the USA out of its stagnant energy production plateau, given the finger to the anti-AI luddites...

But his tariffs were an uncoordinated disaster (I'll never forget the levy on an uninhibited island and ChatGPT formulas), his second term corruption was next level (you could see huge front running in the options and crypto markets every time he made a tariff adjustment), and his Iran war, whether or not you thought it was necessary, has been a poorly planned, disorganized, is-he-in/out mess. Throw in his broken promise over the epstein files, and you have a total failure of a president who took the party down with him.

---

yep, but the tariffs didn't have to be a disaster. they were only a disaster because of his insane insults and middle fingers to other countries. Were those countries getting the better end of the deal for way too long? Sure. But, in typical fashion, he insults everyone involved and takes the bull in a china shop approach, rather than respectable diplomacy. You don't out-ego other big egos. You have to negotiate and be real. Instead, he just pissed global leaders off, which then pisses off the media, and then the populaces at large. He wasn't wrong in trying to right these trade wrongs, but you don't fix an intricate piece of jewelry with a hammer and rock. You do it with finely calculated tools.

BusterAg said:

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Still the best president since Reagan.

At least when it comes to doing things for the common people.

His miscalculation about Iran was a fatal misstep.

---

Yep. And people forget about how great he has been on securing the border. He has made that a non-issue, but it will be again soon enough.

He has definitely been great (despite some of his antics and pettiness that could get annoying), but he gambled on Iran, and it cost him (and us) a lot. Not sure he can salvage his legacy now. It is a shame, because he did a lot great things in his two terms, but "what have you done for me lately" will haunt him I'm afraid. I will always be appreciative to him for actually trying to fight against the democrats (even after getting shot). Most of us conservatives wanted someone to actually fight back and not just try a little and lose graciously in defeat to the democrats. In him, we finally had that guy. He was more bull in a China shop though.

Would be nice to get more of a tactician to be that role. I think Ron DeSantis would be the best option, but not sure he can win a primary given the way normies are when it comes to the popularity part of the election process.

And can someone define MAGA. I am a Christian conservative that wants America to be great and am also America first. So what is the difference?

AgDev01 said:

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Shooter McGavin said:

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AgDev01 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Vepp said:

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LarryLayman said:

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Dallas82 said:

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LarryLayman said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

Absolutely Trump will be regarded as an excellent president. Just because you think blue and pink haired cat ladies named Karen have all the answers doesn't mean normal people think that way.

The fight with Iran is the war we should have fought. And it has been Trumps downfall due to Americas recently acquired weak stomach. The turncoat bushies and chenies took away America's stomach to fight in the fabricated Iraq war. If you think that is Trumps fault you are not thinking it through.

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Trump is already considered one of the top three worst presidents in history. Do you think his legacy will get better over time? He will be remembered as a narcissistic crook who made billions while the American people suffered.

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I am with you on the narcissist but where is your proof on the crook and billions part.

Dimtards natural disposition is to lie and spread lies.

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Trump ran a crypto pump and dump. $Trump. Guarantee him, his family and cronies made millions off of americans who could have used that money to improve the lives of their families.

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Don't forget the private "intimate" dinner with the President for the top 200 or so coin holders.

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Don't forget pardoning an admitted crook, and someone whose actions and company directly aided terrorism, and immediately hopping in bed with them to enrich you and your family to the tune of over $1 billion.

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You must have forgotten the massive corruption that the last two Dems got away with. Do some research.

Don't forget to do Clintion too. Might as well check on Pelosi as well.

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Your argument is literally the logic of a child. Democrats being crooks does not excuse Trump from the same behavior. Both are wrong.

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Yet you excused it by voting for more crooked Dems. Congrats….?

What logic you have my friend. What wonderful logic…

Quote:

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If a leader thinks a fight is worth the cost, they should be able to clearly communicate that to the people to justify the shared cost. People showed up for WWII because it was clear, and made so by our politicians, that the stakes warranted to cost of war

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The traitorous left is actively trying to destroy our country and object to anything that doesn't advance their objective of destroying the country.

Medicare for all(crappy universal healthcare) while overloading, with low IQ leeches, our well developed welfare system. And talafreako already calling for abolishing the filibuster. Do you really think people that try these schemes will support any war?

AgDev01 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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AgDev01 said:

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Shooter McGavin said:

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AgDev01 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Vepp said:

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LarryLayman said:

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Dallas82 said:

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LarryLayman said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

Absolutely Trump will be regarded as an excellent president. Just because you think blue and pink haired cat ladies named Karen have all the answers doesn't mean normal people think that way.

The fight with Iran is the war we should have fought. And it has been Trumps downfall due to Americas recently acquired weak stomach. The turncoat bushies and chenies took away America's stomach to fight in the fabricated Iraq war. If you think that is Trumps fault you are not thinking it through.

---

Trump is already considered one of the top three worst presidents in history. Do you think his legacy will get better over time? He will be remembered as a narcissistic crook who made billions while the American people suffered.

---

I am with you on the narcissist but where is your proof on the crook and billions part.

Dimtards natural disposition is to lie and spread lies.

---

Trump ran a crypto pump and dump. $Trump. Guarantee him, his family and cronies made millions off of americans who could have used that money to improve the lives of their families.

---

Don't forget the private "intimate" dinner with the President for the top 200 or so coin holders.

---

Don't forget pardoning an admitted crook, and someone whose actions and company directly aided terrorism, and immediately hopping in bed with them to enrich you and your family to the tune of over $1 billion.

---

You must have forgotten the massive corruption that the last two Dems got away with. Do some research.

Don't forget to do Clintion too. Might as well check on Pelosi as well.

---

Your argument is literally the logic of a child. Democrats being crooks does not excuse Trump from the same behavior. Both are wrong.

---

Yet you excused it by voting for more crooked Dems. Congrats….?

What logic you have my friend. What wonderful logic…

---

You can make up things that never happened but it doesn't make it true. Why don't you try addressing what i said rather than trying to deflect?

---

Making stuff up? Like what? Dems are crooked as ****, every single one. Every one.

Trump on the other hand just suggests from wild accusations which have been proven time and time again to be made up.

You dismissing Dem behavior because you don't want to talk about it is deflection. Pure, plain and simply.

Jeeper79 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

---

What an insanely stupid criteria.

---

I won't say there's causation, but there's definitely correlation. You do t get impeached twice without pissing off a bunch of people. Any president at the top of the list has managed to be a good president for the whole country try - not just half.

---

There will NEVER be a Republican POTUS that left wing people will accept. To them, they are all Hitler. Hell, GWB was portrayed as Hitler, too.

flown-the-coop said:

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Making stuff up? Like what? Dems are crooked as ****, every single one. Every one.

Trump on the other hand just suggests from wild accusations which have been proven time and time again to be made up.

You dismissing Dem behavior because you don't want to talk about it is deflection. Pure, plain and simply.

---

Where am i dismissing Dem behavior? I explicitly said their corruption is wrong. Just because you can only see things through your tribalist prism doesn't mean everyone else does.

Corruption is bad regardless of what letter is behind someone's name.

Agree. But Trump is not corrupt. The sooner you understand, then on the path to recovery you will be.

He is the GOAT.

His list of accomplishments outdo any other President by double.

Few people know who the real battle is against for our tax money and for power.

Ag with kids said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

---

What an insanely stupid criteria.

---

I won't say there's causation, but there's definitely correlation. You do t get impeached twice without pissing off a bunch of people. Any president at the top of the list has managed to be a good president for the whole country try - not just half.

---

There will NEVER be a Republican POTUS that left wing people will accept. To them, they are all Hitler. Hell, GWB was portrayed as Hitler, too.

---

Never saw them together at the same time, did you!?

BigRobSA said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

---

What an insanely stupid criteria.

---

I won't say there's causation, but there's definitely correlation. You do t get impeached twice without pissing off a bunch of people. Any president at the top of the list has managed to be a good president for the whole country try - not just half.

---

There will NEVER be a Republican POTUS that left wing people will accept. To them, they are all Hitler. Hell, GWB was portrayed as Hitler, too.

---

Never saw them together at the same time, did you!?

---

DC is so f'n corrupti, if my president doesn't piss em of something is wrong.

flown-the-coop said:

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If you didn't hear the decisive, clear reasoning on why we engaged in Iran it's because you have refused to listen.

Nothing less, nothing more. But please be honest about it.

---

Again, he has moved the goalposts throughout this thing. Initially it was about regime change, and tangentially the threat the regime posed. Not really hearing that anymore. The Strait only became a talking point after it became clear that the administration hadn't properly prepared to prevent it being closed in the first place, maybe because they didn't heed nearly 50 years of planners noting that is exactly what Iran would do. The nukes thing. Well, we supposedly "obliterated" their nuclear program 8 months prior, so how did their nuclear program become an imminent threat in less than a year if what we had been told in 2025 was true?

Why not come out and provide evidence of imminent nuclear threat, as opposed to potential nuclear threat. There is a difference between preemptive strikes and preventive strikes, and it is a meaningful difference.

Obviously the American people haven't been convinced the economic pain was worth it, so clearly the messaging hasn't been effective, which caused the electoral bloodbath on Tuesday.

Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

Yes.

And I couldn't give a rat's about the ugly comments people will throw my way.

We're gonna see some more good things from Trump, over the next 2 years, even with Iran, despite the ****head Democrats, socialists and terrorist supporters that got elected on Tuesday. I know some of you guys want to slit your wrists, but we will.

Flame away.

Jeeper79 said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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wrangler1010 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

---

Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

a president that has been impeached twice.. only deserves to be on the bottom 3 list…

---

What an insanely stupid criteria.

---

I won't say there's causation, but there's definitely correlation. You do t get impeached twice without pissing off a bunch of people. Any president at the top of the list has managed to be a good president for the whole country try - not just half.

---

This is wildly stupid and/or ignorant.

Trump was impeached twice because some girl lost some thing and immature idiot liberals lost their ever loving s**t minds. Period.

There is 1 single thing he could have done that would appease the moronic left. "I quit, some girl deserved this" and walked away before taking the oath the first time.

They'd still hate him for beating the only girls ass they actually care about protecting.

Edit: I'm not advocating he should be top 3, but the good he's done exposing how truly corrupt the MSM, Democrats, and Rhinos are is reason enough to put him top 5. He did that by simply beating a couple of sacred cows.

Ervin Burrell said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The disaster of Tuesday lays at the feet of Thune and others on the Senate more than on Trump.

Whilst these lame duck years remain important, his legacy was settled in the first two years with the decisive action in Iran and VZ, closing of the border, mass deportations, military investments, economic investments, throwing a huge spike strip out on the Dems push for socialism and turning the country over to immigrants.

Those things are written and will reap rewards years. But these past elections are a reflection of how regarded the masses are AND perhaps most importantly the absolutely failure of the Senate to do anything past the OBBB.

Trump is the GOAT of the modern era. No questions or doubts about it.

---

Per usual, the buck stops anywhere except with Trump..errr, I mean the "GOAT."

---

Pretty funny seeing a guy who made every excuse in the book for Oldfinger talking about the opinions of others on Trump.

When it came Biden, you were Linda Lovelace.

Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

I think Trump is definitely up there high in ranking, but the Republicans in Congress in both his terms are way way way down the rankings. Bunch of spineless GOP do nothings, they earned and deserved the shellacking in the Midterms.

I mean what other President has very accurately, and bluntly pointed out all the negative issues this country is facing and got the people talking about it day in and day out? Most the Presidents have been completely out of touch with reality and don't care to see reality. He made everyone feel he understood, then tried hard to do something about a lot of those issues, with barely any support from the entrenched wannabe leaders of his own worthless party..They (the uniparty) was practically going to hand the election to Hillary before Trump came along...The GOP had all but bent the knee to the DEMs. He's kept trying to pull them out of the hole and show them the light, while they've kept trying to drag him in..

Apparently the DEMs love him to, they used a lot of his strategies/ ideals to win the Midterms. They still can't beat him. They will overreach and try to impeach him. Good luck, he's been kicking their butt for 10 long years. I hope he has inspired a lot of people from the next generations to put America first and not buy into the BS that career politicians feed us, to hold them accountable.

Funny how he cherry picked that comment to "per usual" comment.

Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

I voted for him three times and I can confidently say that I believe he is the most consequential president of my lifetime

Garrelli 5000 said:

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Funny how he cherry picked that comment to "per usual" comment.

---

It is what he does. Like every leftist, he wants to see this nation suffer a "managed decline" economically and socially and despises anyone who believes and works to see this nation remain at the top on those terms.

And if that managed decline takes out some Jewish kids at a Synagogue in Michigan, a 12 year old walking home from school in Harris County, a political commentator in Utah and any number of Americans working in our manufacturing, agricultural and energy sectors, then so be it. The end goal, a third world nation under the thumb of DSA authoritarian rule, justifies the lives lost and damaged.

First time in my life I'm gonna hate continually telling idiots "I told you so".

Happy with him or not, he was still a better President than anything the Dems can or will offer up.

Of course, it's not like the Dems set a very high bar to clear. A ******ed chimp would be preferable to President Harris.

infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Up until not long ago, some of you said Trump was a top 3 all-time president. Some even said number 1.

Do you still hold that opinion?

---

Trump has always been a guy that does some incredible things with huge W's but also doing some absolutely brain dead mistakes. His biggest flaw is not only is he a narcissist but he doesn't even remotely try and hide it. Obama for instance is a bigger narcissist than Trump but he is much smarter about it. Hopefully he will be the last Boomer President. My hope is one of the Gen Xers like DeSantis or Rubio finally gets a chance but it looks like Millennials love them some socialism.

---

Yup. Enough of the Boomers.
I am waiting for my generation, Gen X to show what they can do.

The Republicans, with their flawed and fake version of capitalism where only the richer get richer and everyone else struggles won't work.

Hence socialism is taking hold. I blame the Republicans and fake scam capitalists for that.

---

For the first time in years the politics board is actually starting to have diversity of thought

Right there with you here

Slicer97 said:

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Happy with him or not, he was still a better President than anything the Dems can or will offer up.

Of course, it's not like the Dems set a very high bar to clear. A ******ed chimp would be preferable to President Harris.

---

Left a bad hand by the non-entity in the White House who doubled down on feeding the Iranian war machine and its terrorist allies.

Last thing President Trump wanted to do was jump into a war with Iran. He knew full well what it costs to go back on a campaign promise. The fact he decided to maintain the posture and defang Tehran in spite of the midterm cost is the type of thing we should want Presidents doing when the threat potential is against all Americans both inside and outside the country. It is also the type of thing many of Trump's critics claimed he would never do: choose the national security of the country over political expediency and self-advantage.

We've been here before. In the 1960 Presidential Election, John F. Kennedy ran to the right of Eisenhower and his Republican opponent Richard Nixon, claiming there was a gap in military numbers and armaments giving advantage to the Soviet Union over the United States. Eisenhower knew better; he actually knew through his intelligence network the real Soviet numbers in manpower, nuclear weapons and conventional armaments. Nixon had access to the same information and could easily have destroyed Kennedy's argument.

The reason they did not do so? Because to do so would expose the very intelligence sources feeding Eisenhower those exact numbers. It would have been the politically advantageous and easy thing do. But it would have done grave harm to our national security and our ability to know the USSR's military capabilities.

Only after Kennedy's entry into the White House did he find out what Eisenhower compiled and understood, providing him with useful knowledge during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

If it comes down to a choice between winning an election and preserving the national security of the country, then I want a President who always makes the decision to take the L politically and, as Commander in Chief, protect the nation from our enemies.

oldyeller said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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If you didn't hear the decisive, clear reasoning on why we engaged in Iran it's because you have refused to listen.

Nothing less, nothing more. But please be honest about it.

---

Again, he has moved the goalposts throughout this thing. Initially it was about regime change, and tangentially the threat the regime posed. Not really hearing that anymore. The Strait only became a talking point after it became clear that the administration hadn't properly prepared to prevent it being closed in the first place, maybe because they didn't heed nearly 50 years of planners noting that is exactly what Iran would do. The nukes thing. Well, we supposedly "obliterated" their nuclear program 8 months prior, so how did their nuclear program become an imminent threat in less than a year if what we had been told in 2025 was true?

Why not come out and provide evidence of imminent nuclear threat, as opposed to potential nuclear threat. There is a difference between preemptive strikes and preventive strikes, and it is a meaningful difference.

Obviously the American people haven't been convinced the economic pain was worth it, so clearly the messaging hasn't been effective, which caused the electoral bloodbath on Tuesday.

---

I guess you know more than the Massad and the CIA about the Middle East? You should be advising Trump instead of the professionals with feet on the ground. I doubt the "no more wars" President woke up one morning and just decided I wanna go kick Iran's butt on his own. There was obviously a pretty clear and imminent and urgent threat to convince Trump to act immediately.

I mean this is the President that all the Dems say hate the military and doesn't support our wars, and called people in the military suckers right? The President that said "no more wars" on the daily in his campaign. What do you think it took to convince him to attack Iran? I'm pretty sure it was more than just a few heated discussions with our Intelligence people and Israel's people as well, and I'm positive Trump wanted nothing to do with another war in the Middle East, there was no advantage to it whatsoever for him.

The fact that he is saying if he had a do over, he would still attack Iran even though it may have cost them bigly in the Midterms should tell you all you need to know.

Ramdiesel said:

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oldyeller said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

If you didn't hear the decisive, clear reasoning on why we engaged in Iran it's because you have refused to listen.

Nothing less, nothing more. But please be honest about it.

---

Again, he has moved the goalposts throughout this thing. Initially it was about regime change, and tangentially the threat the regime posed. Not really hearing that anymore. The Strait only became a talking point after it became clear that the administration hadn't properly prepared to prevent it being closed in the first place, maybe because they didn't heed nearly 50 years of planners noting that is exactly what Iran would do. The nukes thing. Well, we supposedly "obliterated" their nuclear program 8 months prior, so how did their nuclear program become an imminent threat in less than a year if what we had been told in 2025 was true?

Why not come out and provide evidence of imminent nuclear threat, as opposed to potential nuclear threat. There is a difference between preemptive strikes and preventive strikes, and it is a meaningful difference.

Obviously the American people haven't been convinced the economic pain was worth it, so clearly the messaging hasn't been effective, which caused the electoral bloodbath on Tuesday.

---

I guess you know more than the Massad and the CIA about the Middle East? You should be advising Trump instead of the professionals with feet on the ground. I doubt the "no more wars" President woke up one morning and just decided I wanna go kick Iran's butt on his own. There was obviously a pretty clear and imminent and urgent threat to convince Trump to act immediately.

I mean this is the President that all the Dems say hate the military and doesn't support our wars, and called people in the military suckers right? The President that said "no more wars" on the daily in his campaign. What do you think it took to convince him to attack Iran? I'm pretty sure it was more than just a few heated discussions with our Intelligence people and Israel's people as well, and I'm positive Trump wanted nothing to do with another war in the Middle East, there was no advantage to it whatsoever for him.

---

I trust John Kelly's characterization of Trump's attitude re: our military, rather than Trump's public statements, because Trump has demonstrated himself detached from the truth. I view him as a BS artist, who will state the truth when it meets his aims, and speak falsehoods just as readily to suit his aims, because he has no true respect for the truth.

But that is beside the point, because every President before him has made a clear public case for war, not simply defaulted to "trust me, I know what I'm doing." Maybe you're ok with blind fealty, but I am not, and it seems a majority of Americans aren't either, which is why this election was a clear rebuke of this administration, and why Vance is now blaming the war for this result in a vain attempt to salvage his political future by distancing himself from Trump.

You believe Kelly's comments that Trump had disdain for killed service men?

Even John Bolton, who at the time had just tried to cash in on anti-Trump smut, said that was not something Trump would say.

Wow. Hope Santa Clause thinks you're a good little girl.