ErnestEndeavor said:

---

I'm against the death penalty because I don't think it's an adequate deterrent and life in prison protects the population just as well.

But my word. If you're going to do it, do it right.

I still don't understand why they choose the single drug for lethal injection. If you are going to give pentobarbitol, pair it with something else like concentrated fentanyl and other medications.

Carbon monoxide, nitrogen chamber, firing squad, etc., should also be options.

---

It is a deterrent, the executed can never hurt again and hopefully the fear of being executed deters at least some from committing murders. It would be a better deterent if the executions were carried out much more quickly. When there is no doubt as to guilt, then they get 3 months for an appeal and then get executed. I don't want to provide housing, clothing, food, and medical care for murderers for 40 to 50 years. They are not worth it. It is a punishment.

I agree with you on the multiple drugs, the fentanyl ought to work every time. But the firing squad is the way to go.

BadMoonRisin said:

---

I only hope she gets a bad batch of drugs and suffers for at least the 30 minutes she spent torturing her victim.

---

Well, it appears to be more than thirty minutes.

Ag with kids said:

---

MsDoubleD81 said:

---

The Supreme Court has granted the execution of Christa Pike. 6-3 vote. Brown, Sotomayor and Kagan voted against.

Tennessee can execute lone woman on death row, Supreme Court rules, after lower court had paused it https://share.google/acjwbGcLtqURvuCAW

---

You have to love the reporting here:

Quote:

---

In 1995, Pike was 18 when Knoxville police say she and two teenage accomplices worked together to torture, slash and fatally beat Colleen Slemmer, 19. Police say Pike and the others lured Slemmer, a classmate in their Job Corps training program, to an abandoned steam plant at the nearby University of Tennessee and attacked her.

---

No...it wasn't the police saying that.

It was her ****ing admitting it AND being convicted in court.

JFC...

---

Most of the media is a joke. Fortunately everyone finally realized this truth regarding our society.

ErnestEndeavor said:

---

I'm against the death penalty because I don't think it's an adequate deterrent and life in prison protects the population just as well.

But my word. If you're going to do it, do it right.

I still don't understand why they choose the single drug for lethal injection. If you are going to give pentobarbitol, pair it with something else like concentrated fentanyl and other medications.

Carbon monoxide, nitrogen chamber, firing squad, etc., should also be options.

---

Its not a deterrent. Its not meant to be one, not primarily. Nor is prison.

ErnestEndeavor said:

---

I'm against the death penalty because I don't think it's an adequate deterrent and life in prison protects the population just as well.

But my word. If you're going to do it, do it right.

I still don't understand why they choose the single drug for lethal injection. If you are going to give pentobarbitol, pair it with something else like concentrated fentanyl and other medications.

Carbon monoxide, nitrogen chamber, firing squad, etc., should also be options.

---

It's not meant to be a deterrent. It's meant to punish. It may deter and it might not but that's not the reason for the death penalty. If you take someone's life, the only fitting punishment is you lose yours.

This did not age well.

agent-maroon said:

---

Given that anesthesiologists & CRNA's spend literally years learning how NOT to kill someone with a general anesthetic, it's really hard for me to understand how you could botch a lethal injection.

---

Bad batch I'm assuming. Or tampered with.

agent-maroon said:

---

Given that anesthesiologists & CRNA's spend literally years learning how NOT to kill someone with a general anesthetic, it's really hard for me to understand how you could botch a lethal injection.

---

In the past, it was always a three-drug cocktail meant to ensure that something like this did not happen. Then the pharmaceutical companies started limiting access to those different drugs, leaving states scrambling to find them.

I do not know what Tennessee what doing here, but it would not surprise me if they did not have all three drugs.

Not sure about that. I dont think she's having a very good time.

Ran it past ChatGPT and it looks like they didn't have a working IV. She complained of pain at the injection site which screams infiltrated IV access, so the pentobarbital likely never reached her general circulation. The fact that she could even communicate at all is a huge red flag.

Either they have someone who doesn't know how to place a working IV or they're intentionally sabotaging the executions. Or both...

One of the primary arguments in favor of the death penalty over life without parole is the deterrent effect. That's an argument many pro-DP people make. Having the death penalty does not keep more people from murdering.

In terms of punishment, I could make an argument that life in prison with no hope of ever getting out is a worse punishment, and society is still protected. Either way, you die in the prison.

torrid said:

---

agent-maroon said:

---

Given that anesthesiologists & CRNA's spend literally years learning how NOT to kill someone with a general anesthetic, it's really hard for me to understand how you could botch a lethal injection.

---

In the past, it was always a three-drug cocktail meant to ensure that something like this did not happen. Then the pharmaceutical companies started limiting access to those different drugs, leaving states scrambling to find them.

I do not know what Tennessee what doing here, but it would not surprise me if they did not have all three drugs.

---

Pentobarbital is the lone drug they use. Stupid and supports my opinion that they're intentionally creating conditions for failure.

If I'm not mistaken, the prison medical and nursing staff do not participate in these executions. The person starting the IV is possibly someone with limited experience.

agent-maroon said:

---

Ran it past ChatGPT and it looks like they didn't have a working IV. She complained of pain at the injection site which screams infiltrated IV access, so the pentobarbital likely never reached her general circulation. The fact that she could even communicate at all is a huge red flag.

Either they have someone who doesn't know how to place a working IV or they're intentionally sabotaging the executions. Or both...

---

Firm believer in Hanlon's Razor myself. Country bumpkins still abound.

It's not hard to find someone who has the necessary skill set to place a working IV. There are likely 1000's of such personnel in the Knoxville area alone.

Was also thinking about her refusal of a last meal. She was likely dehydrated which would make her IV more difficult to place. Also likely that she was coached on this fact, IMO

I'm guessing the courts will not let them have a second shot at it

FIDO*98* said:

---

ErnestEndeavor said:

---

One of the primary arguments in favor of the death penalty over life without parole is the deterrent effect. That's an argument many pro-DP people make. Having the death penalty does not keep more people from murdering.

In terms of punishment, I could make an argument that life in prison with no hope of ever getting out is a worse punishment, and society is still protected. Either way, you die in the prison.

---

Almost all death row inmates exhaust every appeal opportunity they have so the evidence indicates it's not worse than death. If we raised the standard on capital punishment and carried out the sentence quickly, the deterrent effect would be much higher.

---

Ironically, getting sentenced to death might be better for your chances of getting exonerated than if you got a life sentence. People on death row don't exhaust all their appeals because they are more motivated, they do it because there are a **** ton more people who care about deaths penalty cases and are willing to work on them for free.

amercer said:

---

I'm guessing the courts will not let them have a second shot at it

---

Agreed. Say what you will about capital punishment, but it looks like the game plan to keep her alive will work as intended.

agent-maroon said:

---

amercer said:

---

I'm guessing the courts will not let them have a second shot at it

---

Agreed. Say what you will about capital punishment, but it looks like the game plan to keep her alive will work as intended.

---

Edging closer to an 8th amendment argument.

ErnestEndeavor said:

---

One of the primary arguments in favor of the death penalty over life without parole is the deterrent effect. That's an argument many pro-DP people make. Having the death penalty does not keep more people from murdering.

In terms of punishment, I could make an argument that life in prison with no hope of ever getting out is a worse punishment, and society is still protected. Either way, you die in the prison.

---

Valid points, which is why our current "death penalty" system is somewhat flawed. Taking someone's life should never be an easy thing, and the death penalty should be reserved for the most heinous cases. That being said, if we can bring someone to trial in 6 months and convict, why does it take dozens of years and lots of attorney fees to review and get it over with? The lawyers love the current system.

Quote:

---

Edging closer to an 8th amendment argument.

---

Agree. But it's not the lethal injection that's "cruel and unusual", rather it's creating the conditions that lead to failures such as this. Lethal injection is fundamentally no different than a general anesthetic for surgery that happens tens of thousands of times every day. They're intentionally creating these botched executions to make that 8th Amendment argument IMO. Analogous to a firing squad intentionally gut shooting the condemned and then pointing to their suffering as evidence of the "cruelty".

torrid said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

I only hope she gets a bad batch of drugs and suffers for at least the 30 minutes she spent torturing her victim.

---

Well, it appears to be more than thirty minutes.

---

She is as good as dead now. You cannot take that dose of pentobarbital and not have chronic disabilities.

a high dose of hydrogen sulfide would knock you right to the ground without knowing what hit you

doubledog said:

---

torrid said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

I only hope she gets a bad batch of drugs and suffers for at least the 30 minutes she spent torturing her victim.

---

Well, it appears to be more than thirty minutes.

---

She is as good as dead now. You cannot take that dose pentobarbital and not have chronic disabilities.

---

And she is a ward of the state.

agent-maroon said:

---

It's not hard to find someone who has the necessary skill set to place a working IV. There are likely 1000's of such personnel in the Knoxville area alone.

Was also thinking about her refusal of a last meal. She was likely dehydrated which would make her IV more difficult to place. Also likely that she was coached on this fact, IMO

---

Would not anyone working in any way in the medical field risk becoming doxxed and losing their career if they participated in executions?

Quote:

---

Statement on Physician Nonparticipation in Legally Authorized Executions
Developed By: Committee on Ethics
Last Amended: October 13, 2021 (original approval: October 18, 2006)
[ol]

Execution by lethal injection has resulted in the incorrect association of capital punishment with the practice of medicine, particularly anesthesiology.

Although lethal injection mimics certain technical aspects of the practice of anesthesia, capital punishment in any form is not the practice of medicine.

Because of ancient and modern principles of medical ethics, legal execution should not necessitate participation by an anesthesiologist or any other physician.

ASA continues to agree with the position of the American Medical Association on physician involvement in capital punishment. ASA strongly discourages participation by anesthesiologists in executions.

[/ol]

---

American Society of Anesthesiology position statement

agent-maroon said:

---

torrid said:

---

agent-maroon said:

---

Given that anesthesiologists & CRNA's spend literally years learning how NOT to kill someone with a general anesthetic, it's really hard for me to understand how you could botch a lethal injection.

---

In the past, it was always a three-drug cocktail meant to ensure that something like this did not happen. Then the pharmaceutical companies started limiting access to those different drugs, leaving states scrambling to find them.

I do not know what Tennessee what doing here, but it would not surprise me if they did not have all three drugs.

---

Pentobarbital is the lone drug they use. Stupid and supports my opinion that they're intentionally creating conditions for failure.

---

A good friend does death penalty cases pro bono…long story short:


Anti death penalty advocates have been cutting off access to medical providers to give the shot, access to more appropriate drugs…as part of an effort to have increased botched executions which would ultimately lead to its dissolution.

Interestingly, she argued that it probably makes a lot more sense to have firing squads, achieves the same effect with less potential for screw ups…

Nazi Germany knew ways of killing people and it being effective. Maybe Tennessee Criminal Justice system should take a page from history.