Agree. Consistency is key here. Keep the boot on them vs letting this program get traction. Again, we spent WAY too long doing nothing.

As far as mitigating the strait, I do have a personal anecdote here. I'm a finance exec at a global Fortune 100, and for our packaging, one of our sizable packaging vendors would transport some of the base film that goes into our packaging thru the strait. As an alternative, we funded air freighting it out of the region as a short-term solve, and now we've adjusted our global sourcing to 100% mitigate it. I realize this is not an option for all companies and all products/commodities, but you can be assured alternatives are being found. We will get to a better place.

Old McDonald said:

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richardag said:

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Old McDonald said:

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better for iran? yes

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Please explain.

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off the top of my head i can think of about 300 billion reasons

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The solution is obvious.

Inflate the money supply 300 billion times and their $300,000,000,000 will be worth $1 in today's money.

So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

Queso1 said:

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So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

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For one, we are dismantling the fraud schemes. Two, bringing back industry and oil. That will increase the tax base. Combined we may be able to get back to a balanced budget.

The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

Texas12&0 said:

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Queso1 said:

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So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

---

For one, we are dismantling the fraud schemes. Two, bringing back industry and oil. That will increase the tax base. Combined we may be able to get back to a balanced budget.

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No offense, but none of that is happening, nor does it balance the annual federal budget. Trump and the GOP have passed the BBB and they are pushing more spending bills that will result in $2T and then $3T annual budget deficits.

YouBet said:

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The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

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Pretty sound investment. Investors get a return with oil money.

DeschutesAg said:

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Texas12&0 said:

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Queso1 said:

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So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

---

For one, we are dismantling the fraud schemes. Two, bringing back industry and oil. That will increase the tax base. Combined we may be able to get back to a balanced budget.

---

No offense, but none of that is happening, nor does it balance the annual federal budget. Trump and the GOP have passed the BBB and they are pushing more spending bills that will result in $2T and then $3T annual budget deficits.

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The news service you use probably don't report it. The fraud schemes are being found, scumbags charged and a growing list of convictions. We are now the largest oil producer/exporter in the world. Industry is, indeed, coming back and we are the leaders in innovation….and it's not even close. I day trade and trade the hottest, most volatile stocks of the day. These things are triggered by great PR and the news is 99% building or new innovation/discovery. Israel runs a distant second.

Ag with kids said:

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Do you realize how many shipping areas could be shut down worldwide by some *******s who decided to do it?

Iran ALWAYS could have done this. But, now that they have, they've changed the world calculus on the SoH.

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Exactly. For the last 80 years:

• Where the US economy could prevent shipping shutdowns it did (e.g. incentivizing Indonesia to keep the Strait of Malacca open)
• Where the US Navy could protect freedom of navigation it did (e.g. Operation Praying Mantis)
• Where these forces didn't work, the US tried to drown out the problem (e.g. 2 decades of sanctions on Iran)

The change behind the change here is that the US is done being the protector of global shipping, due entirely to the American people, with Trump as only the messenger.

Iran's geography vis-a-vis the Persian Gulf has been a bug since 1979. Now it's a feature, although a way-overpriced and painful one that users will certainly hate.

We took our shot at blocking the release of the feature, but failed. Now it's out on the market and there's a huge range of ways competitors can react. And the world has our number if they ever want to do something about it, although the price of our assistance will be much, much higher next go-round.

"My girlfriend goes to a different school... You probably haven't heard of it"

The treasury data is pretty public.. which program that is being spent on will return trillions? Seriously. A few bil, sure. Maybe.

AggieCVQ said:

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"My girlfriend goes to a different school... You probably haven't heard of it"

The treasury data is pretty public.. which program that is being spent on will return trillions? Seriously. A few bil, sure. Maybe.

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"Which program that is being spent on will return trillions?" - You serious, Clark?

YouBet said:

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The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

No Spin Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

Probably but as long as it's not coming out of my pocket I really don't care. If it replaces the largest terrorist state on the planet, then that's a W.

No Spin Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

There's a difference that you seek? Take the Bidens, for example. They didn't put up any money. They just used political pressure to grift. Anyone named Trump, who wants to invest in Iran, has to put up money.

Texas12&0 said:

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DeschutesAg said:

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Texas12&0 said:

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Queso1 said:

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So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

---

For one, we are dismantling the fraud schemes. Two, bringing back industry and oil. That will increase the tax base. Combined we may be able to get back to a balanced budget.

---

No offense, but none of that is happening, nor does it balance the annual federal budget. Trump and the GOP have passed the BBB and they are pushing more spending bills that will result in $2T and then $3T annual budget deficits.

---

The news service you use probably don't report it. The fraud schemes are being found, scumbags charged and a growing list of convictions. We are now the largest oil producer/exporter in the world. Industry is, indeed, coming back and we are the leaders in innovation….and it's not even close. I day trade and trade the hottest, most volatile stocks of the day. These things are triggered by great PR and the news is 99% building or new innovation/discovery. Israel runs a distant second.

---

Tell me you know nothing about the U.S. economy or the annual U.S. budget deficit without saying it.

The strait wasn't "closed", Iran didn't sink any ships going through the strait. The ships insurers decided the risk of them going through was too high and so they did not. Iran wasn't carrying out some military blockade or closure, in fact it was the opposite.

Isn't that distinction without a difference?

At this point, the US needs to provide insurance (someone else suggested that and it seems like the right move)

No, it's not the same thing. Some ships did go through and some were escorted. The narrative in this thread is that the Iranians controlled the strait when they did not.

Logos Stick said:

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Isn't that distinction without a difference?

At this point, the US needs to provide insurance (someone else suggested that and it seems like the right move)

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At one point, we said we were going to do that but it died on the vine. Haven't heard anything about it since Trump first threw it out there.

YouBet said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

Probably but as long as it's not coming out of my pocket I really don't care. If it replaces the largest terrorist state on the planet, then that's a W.

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I hear ya. It's always more of just conversation.

Still, it's hard not to think that after all is said and done, even in this administration, the swamp's gonna keep swamping, from the initial attack all the way to today.

DeschutesAg said:

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Texas12&0 said:

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DeschutesAg said:

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Texas12&0 said:

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Queso1 said:

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So basically what we are doing to the American taxpayer in order to raise the DOW and reduce interest payments on the debt?

---

For one, we are dismantling the fraud schemes. Two, bringing back industry and oil. That will increase the tax base. Combined we may be able to get back to a balanced budget.

---

No offense, but none of that is happening, nor does it balance the annual federal budget. Trump and the GOP have passed the BBB and they are pushing more spending bills that will result in $2T and then $3T annual budget deficits.

---

The news service you use probably don't report it. The fraud schemes are being found, scumbags charged and a growing list of convictions. We are now the largest oil producer/exporter in the world. Industry is, indeed, coming back and we are the leaders in innovation….and it's not even close. I day trade and trade the hottest, most volatile stocks of the day. These things are triggered by great PR and the news is 99% building or new innovation/discovery. Israel runs a distant second.

---

Tell me you know nothing about the U.S. economy or the annual U.S. budget deficit without saying it.

---

There are two distinct mindsets. Those that see the dynamics of a situation and form solutions to steer in the right or successful course. Can do types. I call it "feeding the positive".
Then there are those that see a stagnant or failing situation. They see problems, but have no clue how to correct the situation. You see it often in blue cities and states led by democrats. It's a negative mindset as they only see failure, so they feed the failure.

Texas12&0 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

There's a difference that you seek? Take the Bidens, for example. They didn't put up any money. They just used political pressure to grift. Anyone named Trump, who wants to invest in Iran, has to put up money.

---

Worth all the money going to be spent to rebuild what was used by our military and all the costs that Americans spent on higher fuel prices, etc?

I hate defending the Bidens, but at least their actions didn't start a war that killed so many lives and caused so many problems throughout the world. Theirs was SOP political grift that presidents, at least the last one and this one, sans Iran, used to line their and their family's pockets.

Both are/were wrong. We can all at least admit that, can't we?

No Spin Ag said:

---

Texas12&0 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

There's a difference that you seek? Take the Bidens, for example. They didn't put up any money. They just used political pressure to grift. Anyone named Trump, who wants to invest in Iran, has to put up money.

---

Worth all the money going to be spent to rebuild what was used by our military and all the costs that Americans spent on higher fuel prices, etc?

I hate defending the Bidens, but at least their actions didn't start a war that killed so many lives and caused so many problems throughout the world. Theirs was SOP political grift that presidents, at least the last one and this one, sans Iran, used to line their and their family's pockets.

Both are/were wrong. We can all at least admit that, can't we?

---

Respectfully, disagree with everything you said.

As many US soldiers were killed in one day at the botched Kabul airport evacuation as have died in this entire conflict

Also interesting to see the reaction to our US weapons stockpile related to funding Ukraine vs this one. Team blue is suddenly very concerned about it

Enrico Pallazzo said:

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As many US soldiers were killed in one day at the botched Kabul airport evacuation as have died in this entire conflict

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Remember when y'all left beer for the fallen soldiers? Why did that stop under Trump? It's almost like y'all don't actually care about the soldiers and were just trying to play political football.

I'm actually mostly concerned about a million or more beers needed if these nutjobs infatuated with meeting virgins in the afterlife and bringing on the hidden Imam with a global catastrophe get themselves a nuke. Doing nothing cannot be an option.

Let's play this out. Obtaining a nuke put NK in position to have a free run at building whatever catastrophic weapons they want. More nukes, chemicals, they likely have a satellite EMP. And we are powerless to touch them because of it. We just have to hope the current nut or whatever nut kid follows him doesn't push the button. That can't happen with Iran, especially when their religious ideology seems to have little fear of the afterlife.

Texas12&0 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

---

Texas12&0 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The $300B is a private-sector investment/reconstruction fund, potentially backed by Gulf states and private investors, and is not a direct appropriation from the U.S. Treasury - Reuters

Commence scoffing but that's what it is until it's not. I report; you decide.

---

Any chance any of those private investors are friends and family of someone with the last name Trump? Maybe even MIC and those with close ties to it?

Any chance at all?

---

There's a difference that you seek? Take the Bidens, for example. They didn't put up any money. They just used political pressure to grift. Anyone named Trump, who wants to invest in Iran, has to put up money.

---

Worth all the money going to be spent to rebuild what was used by our military and all the costs that Americans spent on higher fuel prices, etc?

I hate defending the Bidens, but at least their actions didn't start a war that killed so many lives and caused so many problems throughout the world. Theirs was SOP political grift that presidents, at least the last one and this one, sans Iran, used to line their and their family's pockets.

Both are/were wrong. We can all at least admit that, can't we?

---

Respectfully, disagree with everything you said.

---

Fair enough.

1939 said:

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No, it's not the same thing. Some ships did go through and some were escorted. The narrative in this thread is that the Iranians controlled the strait when they did not.

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If you read my posts, I stated pretty clearly that the Iranians closed the straits by doing nothing more than indicating they might attack shipping. You are correct that they didn't actually have to do anything, but the end result nonetheless was the straits being effectively closed and us being unable to force them open.

Do I think the Iranians were bluffing, 100%, but it doesn't matter what I think, shipping traffic ground to a halt rather than calling the bluff.

Enrico Pallazzo said:

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Let's play this out. Obtaining a nuke put NK in position to have a free run at building whatever catastrophic weapons they want. More nukes, chemicals, they likely have a satellite EMP. And we are powerless to touch them because of it. We just have to hope the current nut or whatever nut kid follows him doesn't push the button. That can't happen with Iran, especially when their religious ideology seems to have little fear of the afterlife.

---

The real lesson to cite here is Qaddafi. He willingly gave up his WMD program and ended up being overthrown with our assistance and then torn to tiny pieces by his own people. All other strongmen regimes took note of his fate and realized that WMDs are the best armor they can have against our interference.

Which is exactly why we needed to smash them now (long overdue), watch closely, and keep smashing if needed. This is much bigger than temporary supply chain issues in the strait for hormuz

We are promising Iran 2x the total cost of the Marshall Plan after accounting for inflation. WHAT A DEAL!

We'll end up with something that looks a lot like the JCPOA plus a lot more zeros.

That is, if we want the rest of the world to be a part of the nuclear component of this. The JCPOA was multi-lateral:
US
Russia
China
France
UK
Germany
The EU
Iran
All signed.

Not a whole lot of enthusiasm from most of those guys so far.

But it will undoubtedly end up being the "best deal ever".

well i guess we can retire this thread, seeing as this "deal" quickly fell apart like all of its predecessors

Geminiv said:

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BusterAg said:

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2040huck said:

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What new advantage have we gained?

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Iran's military capabilities have been obliterated, they cannot hold the ME hostage with their ballistic missile arsenal so that they can build a nuke, and the straight is open.

So, yeah, its light-years better.

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Wasn't the straight open before the war? Like their nuclear capability was obliterated last year? Because Trump says. He lies occasionally or worse yet just doesn't know what he's talking about

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Your right.

So, basically just like before, except IRAN CAN'T HOLD THE ME HOSTAGE WITH BALLISTIC MISSILES.

That is light years better.

Let me know if this is still too hard to understand.