Except when the accountant has an insatiable appetite to understand how things work.

If we take this approach, can we restrict posting and discussing all things financial unless one has an accounting degree and CPA license?

Cause i see way more idiocracy in people misunderstanding financial concepts than i have ever seen on cooling methodologies of data centers.

Just sayin.

Mr.Milkshake said:

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The new thing to be a victim about. Low iq

The water nonsense is especially amusing. You've got to be on the extreme wrong side of the bell curve

---

Feel free to post what you think you know with some background and facts.

Low "iq", indeed.

I think we need to realize and accept that most engineers can do what others do, but not vice versa.

People become engineers because they have the intelligence and ability, and unlike other majors it was a choice and not a consequence.

Mr.Milkshake said:

---

The new thing to be a victim about. Low iq

The water nonsense is especially amusing. You've got to be on the extreme wrong side of the bell curve

---

how much rural property do you own?

Water consumption is directly proportional to immigration. We are well below native population replacement rate on TFR. With AI and robotics, we don't need more lettuce pickers. Fewer white collar workers needed.

Stop the immigration and the water issue disappears. Without immigration, we end up at around 225 million population by the year 2100, down from the current 342 million.

That's the solution for water resources. Then we have it to use for DCs.

Jbob04 said:

---

Mr.Milkshake said:

---

The new thing to be a victim about. Low iq

The water nonsense is especially amusing. You've got to be on the extreme wrong side of the bell curve

---

how much rural property do you own?

---

Does it really matter who owns what with anti private property rights zealots like yourself keep pushing your view?

These random city councils approving these deals are sure as hell not full of stem grads.

YouBet said:

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Coates said:

---

My point was there are thousands of data centers all over the country, no location is spared, and that most pople had no idea how many and the scale of what has already been built. And it seems odd for all of the pushback now, when the US already has thousands of data centers, consuming billions of gallons of water, and using dozens of GW of power.

And no one is disputing the growth, its insane and the industry cannot keep up. But to me they are basically warehouses and the only reason I wouldn't want one literally in my backyard is because they are ugly, again just my opinion.

---

Because we were already facing critical water shortages and our energy infrastructure hasn't been upgraded in decades.

Water tidbits:

- More than 60% of the entire country is in drought conditions right now.

- Read the article I posted earlier on the disaster that is the CO River which 7 states depend on for water. The two backup reservoirs on that river have depleted by more than 75%.

- Corpus Christi and all of the communities tied into their water infrastructure are looking at actual dead pool outcomes if they can't figure out how to get more water online. And the only real solution for that is 4-5 years away without a hurricane parking over the coast. All the while Corpus announces two weeks ago that a new DC is being built. Any load whatsoever on their already catastrophically low water supply is about the worst optics you can have.

Energy tidbits:

- We've removed mainline production over the years and added unreliable green energy while ignoring nuclear energy.

- Most of the new DCs being built are being put in a handful of states with the infrastructure to actually support them so factor the massive increased density and centralization of all of these DC's being built in the same few states.

Public Awareness:

- Now factor all of the talk in the media over the past 1-2 years over AI which has driven every online and print news organization on almost a daily basis for that time period and you will see why so many people are pushing back now when they did not in the past. There is some level of self-fulfilling prophecy here that all of this exciting AI talk by Big Tech has subsequently rallied people against their cause because our underlying ability to support it is shaky as hell.

---

So I can assume you have done your research and data centers use more water and power than anything else in the country? Or are they just the new convenient thing to raise hell about?

As I have said, I don't care if people protest, and you should ask questions, but to blame data centers and their growth on water or energy shortages is ridiculous when there are other water and energy hogs out there.

Hope everyone has a wonder day, enjoy all of the benefits data centers have provided you over the last 40+ years!

infinity ag said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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500,000ags said:

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What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

---

Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

---

You quite literally have offered nothing of substance and just yell at other people how they don't know what they are talking about and that they should get off the internet if they don't want to "listen to Urban Country Boy, he is the only one allowed to speak on data centers".

Plenty of open debates, discussions you could address. Quit yelling at people to "shush or GTFO".

---

That's the standard comeback from people (especially the olds) who hate it when you are right and can't say something logical or sensible.

---

Thats the comeback someone says when you're hypocritically using data centers to spread your complaints about data centers. TexAgs isn't run on a server on WatchOle's closet. It uses Cloudfare's, Microsoft's Azure, and probably Amazon's AWS data centers.

Logos Stick said:

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Water consumption is directly proportional to immigration. We are well below native population replacement rate on TFR. With AI and robotics, we don't need more lettuce pickers. Fewer white collar workers needed.

Stop the immigration and the water issue disappears. Without immigration, we end up at around 225 million population by the year 2100, down from the current 342 million.

That's the solution for water resources. Then we have it to use for DCs.

---

Excellent points. The only problem is that immigrants, even illegal ones, create a distribution of wealth from the government (taxpayers' money) to private companies via immigrants and the services they get and use.

There's a reason no president has ever gone all out to get rid of every immigrant in the country, and if Congress doesn't make what Trump is currently doing with ICE permanent, no one ever will. and those companies will continue to get rich thanks to those immigrants.

Immigrants are part of the problem, but not the only part.

Coates said:

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YouBet said:

---

Coates said:

---

My point was there are thousands of data centers all over the country, no location is spared, and that most pople had no idea how many and the scale of what has already been built. And it seems odd for all of the pushback now, when the US already has thousands of data centers, consuming billions of gallons of water, and using dozens of GW of power.

And no one is disputing the growth, its insane and the industry cannot keep up. But to me they are basically warehouses and the only reason I wouldn't want one literally in my backyard is because they are ugly, again just my opinion.

---

Because we were already facing critical water shortages and our energy infrastructure hasn't been upgraded in decades.

Water tidbits:

- More than 60% of the entire country is in drought conditions right now.

- Read the article I posted earlier on the disaster that is the CO River which 7 states depend on for water. The two backup reservoirs on that river have depleted by more than 75%.

- Corpus Christi and all of the communities tied into their water infrastructure are looking at actual dead pool outcomes if they can't figure out how to get more water online. And the only real solution for that is 4-5 years away without a hurricane parking over the coast. All the while Corpus announces two weeks ago that a new DC is being built. Any load whatsoever on their already catastrophically low water supply is about the worst optics you can have.

Energy tidbits:

- We've removed mainline production over the years and added unreliable green energy while ignoring nuclear energy.

- Most of the new DCs being built are being put in a handful of states with the infrastructure to actually support them so factor the massive increased density and centralization of all of these DC's being built in the same few states.

Public Awareness:

- Now factor all of the talk in the media over the past 1-2 years over AI which has driven every online and print news organization on almost a daily basis for that time period and you will see why so many people are pushing back now when they did not in the past. There is some level of self-fulfilling prophecy here that all of this exciting AI talk by Big Tech has subsequently rallied people against their cause because our underlying ability to support it is shaky as hell.

---

So I can assume you have done your research and data centers use more water and power than anything else in the country? Or are they just the new convenient thing to raise hell about?

As I have said, I don't care if people protest, and you should ask questions, but to blame data centers and their growth on water or energy shortages is ridiculous when there are other water and energy hogs out there.

Hope everyone has a wonder day, enjoy all of the benefits data centers have provided you over the last 40+ years!

---

Read the thread. I literally posted about an hour ago that I've asked people on here who seem to be experts in the industry to educate the rest of us. Go back a few pages and you will see where I've asked others about water usage in real world applications. From what has been shared in this thread, there seems to be mixed use cases where some DC's use a lot of water and some DC's do not.

So, I've already been trying to educate myself on this. Have you? All you seem to be doing is sniping and saying, "it's always been this way!"

Regarding being the new convenient thing to raise hell about, you also literally responded to my post where I laid out with common sense and facts why people are raising hell about it.

Your level of obtuseness with this reply is damn impressive.

I don't agree with the argument about legacy software driving this, it's not, but if you use an LLM for anything and are complaining about DC growth, you are being hypocritical.

Eta, not directed at anyone in particular.

Teslag said:

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I think we need to realize and accept that most engineers can do what others do, but not vice versa.

People become engineers because they have the intelligence and ability, and unlike other majors it was a choice and not a consequence.

---

After about 15 years in the field it finally dawned on me I became an engineer because I have a drive to solve problems and build stuff.

Teslag said:

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Jbob04 said:

---

Mr.Milkshake said:

---

The new thing to be a victim about. Low iq

The water nonsense is especially amusing. You've got to be on the extreme wrong side of the bell curve

---

how much rural property do you own?

---

Does it really matter who owns what with anti private property rights zealots like yourself keep pushing your view?

---

Property rights are pretty cut and dry as long as each property owner lives on an island surround by inert ocean. As soon as they get neighbors or have to share the same air and water, that all changes.

I can respect you saying that tbh, because it's partially true. At least it's logically correct as well. The others saying legacy internet and cloud usage, do you think it's that they don't understand, it's a talking point they have latched onto, or what? I want to have more effective conversations, but I cannot get where they are getting that from.

Teslag said:

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I think we need to realize and accept that most engineers can do what others do, but not vice versa.

People become engineers because they have the intelligence and ability, and unlike other majors it was a choice and not a consequence.

---

Yea, that seems like a concept a conceited engineer would have. Laughably obtuse.

lb3 said:

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infinity ag said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

500,000ags said:

---

What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

---

Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

---

You quite literally have offered nothing of substance and just yell at other people how they don't know what they are talking about and that they should get off the internet if they don't want to "listen to Urban Country Boy, he is the only one allowed to speak on data centers".

Plenty of open debates, discussions you could address. Quit yelling at people to "shush or GTFO".

---

That's the standard comeback from people (especially the olds) who hate it when you are right and can't say something logical or sensible.

---

Thats the comeback someone says when you're hypocritically using data centers to spread your complaints about data centers. TexAgs isn't run on a server on WatchOle's closet. It uses Cloudfare's, Microsoft's Azure, and probably Amazon's AWS data centers.

---

Believe the server housing the android app, down vote feature and the threads from the summer of love are indeed in WatchOle's closet, next to the DVD to laserdisc rig.

Wasn't trying to come off as a dick, and maybe i can't articulate my point to you correctly. Just meant that singling out data centers when there are dozens of other industries that use just as much or more water and power seems nuts, and it may just be because its AI and that freaks people out vs cloud, who knows. But the buildings themselves are virtually the same, giant, crap ton of redundant power, and highly secure.

And these have been built in rural areas for years, rural Washington, oregon, oklahoma, indiana, wyoming, pretty much every state. You can also go to Google, Meta, etc and see their data center locations, the size, power, and all sorts of other info. There are industry events weekly, not sure where you live but if you wanted to attend and ask questions or listen in on panels people would be very open and honest.

The age of experts is dead. Engineers have zero moat.

If you moved to the boonies of NM, the odds of a Data Center being built by you are next to nil.
That's what I did about 33+ years ago when I bought a few tens of acres within about 3 hours drive time of ABQ. My property backs up to Nat'l Forest, so I don't have concerns about that being built on.

And if you want input into city councils and county commissioners, attend the meetings regularly. Heck, run for some of those local/county offices.

Since the vast majority of DC's are still going to be built attend all the public meetings to ensure that water, sound, sight, traffic, and cost concerns are thoroughly mitigated.

Finally, think about the explosion in just cell phones. 20-25 years ago, what, maybe 1 out of 2 or even out of 3 entire families had a single cell phone. Now, almost every working adult has 2 cells, 1 work & 1 personal, and every kid has one. Same with PC's/laptops, probably EVERY family member has their own.

And then there is streaming video...

So adapt to this ever rapidly changing world of technology, or be an obstinate Archie Bunker tilting at windmills, to his detriment.

YouBet said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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Anyone here that makes a comment about how they hate data centers are hypocrites. You really want to protest? Shut everything you do down. No Cell phone. No debit or credit card transactions. Walk into a bank for your balance. Only write checks. Dial from you home land line. Play games on your Atari.

And shut off your comments on a data center run site

---

We can maintain all of the tech we've already had for decades without hyper scaling DCs to handle...

---

Seriously, you were good with 14.4 dial up?

Urban Country Boy said:

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YouBet said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

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Anyone here that makes a comment about how they hate data centers are hypocrites. You really want to protest? Shut everything you do down. No Cell phone. No debit or credit card transactions. Walk into a bank for your balance. Only write checks. Dial from you home land line. Play games on your Atari.

And shut off your comments on a data center run site

---

We can maintain all of the tech we've already had for decades without hyper scaling DCs to handle...

---

Seriously, you were good with 14.4 dial up?

---

This avoids the points I've already made.

100% agree. This is the situation close to home. City is actively pursuing 5+ data centers without wanting to disclose the underlying utility service agreements (for the first 2 at least). The ignorance is comical. I talked to someone this week that kept saying the same stuff as Urban (even though it's categorically incorrect), but he added that good thing I live XYZ town (3 miles away). Completely oblivious to the notion that we share the same water sources and breath the same air. This has been one of the most active civic topics I've been in, and people can really hit you with a blunt force object of ignorance. So quick to not want transparency or any interest in understanding anything, if the right people are telling them the right things.

And all you high any holy types, spewing all your high and holy BS would be furious I I bought the lot across the street from your house to stack feedlot manure on. Or to put a dairy barn, or a chicken barn, or better yet pigs.

You can spew your high and holy BS when it is our rural lives and lifestyles being destroyed. But let someone move something inconvenient near you and the screeching and howling and lawyering up would be epic.

In fact, you should just stop eating food if you don't want my feedlot manure stacked across the street from your house.

YouBet said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Anyone here that makes a comment about how they hate data centers are hypocrites. You really want to protest? Shut everything you do down. No Cell phone. No debit or credit card transactions. Walk into a bank for your balance. Only write checks. Dial from you home land line. Play games on your Atari.

And shut off your comments on a data center run site

---

We can maintain all of the tech we've already had for decades without hyper scaling DCs to handle...

---

Seriously, you were good with 14.4 dial up?

---

This avoids the points I've already made.

---

Explain.

We've explained over and over. You just don't understand anything being said I guess. Or more likely, just don't want to.

SunrayAg said:

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And all you high any holy types, spewing all your high and holy BS would be furious I I bought the lot across the street from your house to stack feedlot manure on. Or to put a dairy barn, or a chicken barn, or better yet pigs.

You can spew your high and holy BS when it is our rural lives and lifestyles being destroyed. But let someone move something inconvenient near you and the screeching and howling and lawyering up would be epic.

In fact, you should just stop eating food if you don't want my feedlot manure stacked across the street from your house.

---

I get the concern. I would be concerned in your shoes. When you buy land in a rural area don't you acknowledge the risk that the land around you is not zoned a particular way? I bought a house in a neighborhood so I know that businesses can't stack manure in the lot next to me.

500,000ags said:

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We've explained over and over. You just don't understand anything being said I guess. Or more likely, just don't want to.

---

You don't like Data Centers, check. You are on your internet and computer to complain. Check. What did I get wrong.

One thing I'm curious about. Don't the data center bring in alot of tax revenue without the added population? I would think these communities would get a windfall of tax revenue without having to deal with the burdens that come with increased population.

You don't know the difference between AI and the internet. Hardware needed to make AI work versus the internet work (outside of new big building means more internet, I guess). Can't read comments properly (where I said these are likely need). Check, check, check. Pick up your pants because you're flashing the room.

Again, getting hyper-local. Tax Revenue is material. You'll never hear me say otherwise. Ex. City annexed a piece of land that will go from undeveloped with a tax base of $300 to almost $7MM. This is a gross number and the city won't really be clear on incentives and abatements, but it's a material increase in tax revenue nonetheless.

Alot of the tech giants are heavily investing in Fusion power companies. I think the timeline for that is in the 2030s. A data center generating it's own power through fusion erases alot of the environmental concerns. Still need water, but no threat of nuclear meltdown or nuclear waste.

JB99 said:

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One thing I'm curious about. Don't the data center bring in alot of tax revenue without the added population? I would think these communities would get a windfall of tax revenue without having to deal with the burdens that come with increased population.

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Uhm…that's sort of how this works.

Farmer sells land to data center because they typically offer 5x-10x market value

Farmer signs NDA

3-5 years pass while permits, regs, feasibility is performed.

It ends up in your local government shortly for final approvals on infrastructure….water, roads, electricity, etc.

YES….the county wants them because they bring MILLIONS of dollars in tax revenues, infrastructure upgrade deals, etc.

It's a win win deal for the government and county.

But it still sucks for everyone that has to live by it.

500,000ags said:

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You don't know the difference between AI and the internet. Hardware needed to make AI work versus the internet work (outside of new big building means more internet, I guess). Can't read comments properly (where I said these are likely need). Check, check, check. Pick up your pants because you're flashing the room.

---

Actually I do know the difference. But please explain to us the difference. We all want to know.

Edit: If you think there is a difference in a data centers that just do internet and one that do AI you have no clue.