Austerity now

Well it's not unlike the government to give out false numbers or misleading numbers

Saw some reel by a guy who thinks Trump will declare US insolvent and decide to not pay every bank. Bankruptcy.

"Divided equally"… yeah right

Principal Uncertainty said:

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If they are going to criticize the government for reporting numbers that seem to skew reality, it's hypocritical of them to also report numbers that skew reality. The $1.1MM owed by each taxpayer is paid not all at once, but over the 75 years per their own data. That's more like $14,000 per year per taxpayer. It's a high number, but not nearly as impossible as they are trying to make it sound, especially when taxpayers like me pay 6 figures in taxes. The finances of the US are bad, and close to going over the tipping point of no return. But we've not quite fallen far enough as to make corrections meaningless like this reporting tries to make it appear. Now is the time for resolution, not resignation.

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You new to TexAgs, f16 and Ags in general? Being resolute in times of uncertainty seems to be lost on the vast many. Whether it's halftime of a home football game against South Carolina, day 45 of a 60 day war, 7 months before an election, or the ever present our grandkids are doomed by unfounded obligations, there are plenty of pearls clutched but very few putting boots on, pulling their suspenders up and working to do something about it.

Principal Uncertainty said:

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If they are going to criticize the government for reporting numbers that seem to skew reality, it's hypocritical of them to also report numbers that skew reality. The $1.1MM owed by each taxpayer is paid not all at once, but over the 75 years per their own data. That's more like $14,000 per year per taxpayer. It's a high number, but not nearly as impossible as they are trying to make it sound, especially when taxpayers like me pay 6 figures in taxes. The finances of the US are bad, and close to going over the tipping point of no return. But we've not quite fallen far enough as to make corrections meaningless like this reporting tries to make it appear. Now is the time for resolution, not resignation.

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Agreed. It also is misleading in saying the entire total unfunded liabilities are going to be paid with new taxes. The current money being collected for Medicare and Social Security goes toward paying the unfunded liabilities of approximately $140b. It is still a large number and needs to be addressed now but we know neither party or the average American is ready to take the bitter pill.

I'm 76 and sure glad I'm in my twilight years.........

flown-the-coop said:

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Picard said:

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All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

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I am curious. For you and the 5 who starred this as of this reply, but what are you doing to "prepare accordingly"?

Water source, shelter and ammo?

Buying gold with William Devaine?

Holding Chinese Yuan and Mexican Pesos?

Just curious how one prepares for a debt collapse in the United States.

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There is no way to prepare for that. If things get that catastrophic financially, we will all be in the same boat together.

1000% agree.

I support balanced budget, ideally with a surplus to pay down the o/s debt. I also recognize that seems like an impossibility when Senate Rs will not even push the SAVE America Act forward. Nor would either chamber codify the DOGE cuts.

But when people predict a US debt collapse, they might as well predict an extinction level disaster because the results will look similar.

flown-the-coop said:

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Picard said:

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All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

---

I am curious. For you and the 5 who starred this as of this reply, but what are you doing to "prepare accordingly"?

Water source, shelter and ammo?

Buying gold with William Devaine?

Holding Chinese Yuan and Mexican Pesos?

Just curious how one prepares for a debt collapse in the United States.

---

US fiat is in a state of perpetual debasement. For centuries, not decades, central banking has been designed to strip mine human time, labor, and any form of wealth accumulation via ever increasing debt and inflation. They suck the lifeblood out of nations and leave an empty hull. Thomas Jefferson warned against central banks for this reason.

It's not hard to see the deterioration of purchase power in real time as the collapse of world fiats near their intrinsic value - zero. Further, preparing for an eventual collapse in fiat is no longer viewed as fringe as it once used to be. I've no doubt you are an intelligent person. I'm not comfortable attributing ignorance to anyone. However, you make a compelling case with such a comment towards a fellow that recognizes fiats are collapsing.

I will concede the powers that be have managed to kick the can down the road further than many thought possible. This does not dismiss the mathematical certainty that a failure of fiat is in our nation's future. I do mean certainty, as history is littered with failed fiats. So, yes...prepare accordingly. And, if not for you, because "that's not going to happen in your lifetime", do it for your family.

• Collecting other fiats is a fool's errand - don't do this.
• Gold and silver have a several thousand year track record of being sound money - useful for trade
• Shelter, food, ammo, and water are basic necessities even when times are good and critical when times aren't so good
• Learn to barter goods and services
• Learn to grow your own food - stock up on seed
• Get to know your neighbors - trust and community are huge commodities when working through a systemic failure
• Learn a trade - farming, mechanics, carpentry, electrical, cooking, etc...high demand

None of this has to be done all at once. A little over time goes a long way.

This will all be irrelevant anyway according to Elon. He says money will no longer exist soon.

We are good.

I've read One Second After and the other post-apocalypse series. For me personally, I am screwed as I am dependent on insulin. So access to that and refrigeration are the weak link in my survival.

For the other topics, you would need to be able to form some true alliance amongst your family, friend, neighbors, etc. Your ability to navigate through that is equal parts preparedness and good fortune.

If TTUArmy's compound of preparedness happens to be next to FTC's vigilante gang of misfits and conflict kicks off, well lots of preparedness can be lost in some early skirmishes.

If you read those sorts of books, most will come away with the conclusion that is not really the world you want to live in.

Reformation and prevention are much better goals to work towards.

YouBet said:

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This will all be irrelevant anyway according to Elon. He says money will no longer exist soon.

We are good.

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Elon could be right. I also think AI has great potential.AI requires a lot of capex to get it off the ground. With capital being diverted into defense and energy, because wars and conflicts pay better, AI progress loses a bit of steam. The sooner we stop messing around in the M.E., the sooner we can push capital back into AI projects again.

flown-the-coop said:

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I've read One Second After and the other post-apocalypse series. For me personally, I am screwed as I am dependent on insulin. So access to that and refrigeration are the weak link in my survival.

For the other topics, you would need to be able to form some true alliance amongst your family, friend, neighbors, etc. Your ability to navigate through that is equal parts preparedness and good fortune.

If TTUArmy's compound of preparedness happens to be next to FTC's vigilante gang of misfits and conflict kicks off, well lots of preparedness can be lost in some early skirmishes.

If you read those sorts of books, most will come away with the conclusion that is not really the world you want to live in.

Reformation and prevention are much better goals to work towards.

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I'm old infantry. I have a sector of fire card on every window.

Get some pigs I can milk for insulin and I'll come help. My seed collection is varied but committed to one type of plant, but the crop has been consumed and bartered for centuries. I am also a good joke teller and globally recognized arsehole, which can be useful in certain circumstances.

TTUArmy said:

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YouBet said:

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This will all be irrelevant anyway according to Elon. He says money will no longer exist soon.

We are good.

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Elon could be right. I also think AI has great potential.AI requires a lot of capex to get it off the ground. With capital being diverted into defense and energy, because wars and conflicts pay better, AI progress loses a bit of steam. The sooner we stop messing around in the M.E., the sooner we can push capital back into AI projects again.

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Elon is the Tony Stark of our time...to overuse that cliche, but I'm not convinced AI and robots will solve scarcity. Neither of those do nothing to solve unlimited and unconstrained energy nor make raw resources infinite.

I hope I'm wrong though.

flown-the-coop said:

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Get some pigs I can milk for insulin and I'll come help. My seed collection is varied but committed to one type of plant, but the crop has been consumed and bartered for centuries. I am also a good joke teller and globally recognized arsehole, which can be useful in certain circumstances.

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I need more neighbors like you. My neighborhood is chock full of 100 year old oaks and the same people that planted them still here.

Picard said:

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All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

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You are bad at economics.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Saw some reel by a guy who thinks Trump will declare US insolvent and decide to not pay every bank. Bankruptcy.

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I think that would destroy the country. Our dollar is backed by nothing other than confidence that the US will pay its debts, and demand for oil. Even if we wipe out our debt, it's not like we have a balanced budget now. We'll immediately need to start borrowing again, and no one will loan us money.

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The US Dollar is backed by the permission to participate in the US economy. You can't operate in the US economy unless you pay taxes. You can only pay taxes in $'s.

I'm not saying that bankruptcy is a good idea. It is a terrible idea. But the idea that the $ has absolutely nothing behind it is incorrect.

Picard said:

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All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

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BusterAg said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Saw some reel by a guy who thinks Trump will declare US insolvent and decide to not pay every bank. Bankruptcy.

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I think that would destroy the country. Our dollar is backed by nothing other than confidence that the US will pay its debts, and demand for oil. Even if we wipe out our debt, it's not like we have a balanced budget now. We'll immediately need to start borrowing again, and no one will loan us money.

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The US Dollar is backed by the permission to participate in the US economy. You can't operate in the US economy unless you pay taxes. You can only pay taxes in $'s.

I'm not saying that bankruptcy is a good idea. It is a terrible idea. But the idea that the $ has absolutely nothing behind it is incorrect.

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Quibble: almost half the population gets to participate in the economy without paying taxes and having skin in the game. They should lose the right to vote, at least.

Time to move to India.
US corporations are sending jobs to India after firing people here anyway.

infinity ag said:

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Time to move to India.
US corporations are sending jobs to India after firing people here anyway.

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Which areas most interest you? Mumbai and New Delhi are crazy crowded but Mumbai is warmer and has some beaches. I would stay away from contested areas in the north unless conflict is your thing.

Hyderabad is supposed to be nice and there are some very scenic areas to visit and lib. English is widely spoken.

Southern areas also trend to more Christian though Sri Lanka may feel more comfortable.

BTW - If you think evil CEOs and corrupt politicians along with their coastal elite overlords keep you down, the caste system in India may not be your cup of tea.

YouBet said:

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TTUArmy said:

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YouBet said:

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This will all be irrelevant anyway according to Elon. He says money will no longer exist soon.

We are good.

---

Elon could be right. I also think AI has great potential.AI requires a lot of capex to get it off the ground. With capital being diverted into defense and energy, because wars and conflicts pay better, AI progress loses a bit of steam. The sooner we stop messing around in the M.E., the sooner we can push capital back into AI projects again.

---

Elon is the Tony Stark of our time...to overuse that cliche, but I'm not convinced AI and robots will solve scarcity. Neither of those do nothing to solve unlimited and unconstrained energy nor make raw resources infinite.

I hope I'm wrong though.

---

Elon thinks the immediate answer for energy is solar, and is diving into that for the US in a big way. 100 GW added capacity per year from Tesla/SpaceX. He "preaches" on X about solar regularly.

I am not a positive about the future and AI as Elon, but he repeatedly puts his money where his heart is and succeeds.

https://now.solar/2026/02/03/musk-eyes-100-gw-of-solar-panel-manufacturing-capacity-in-the-usa-green-building-africa/

Bulldog73 said:

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With unfunded debt, it is really $173 T

Quote:

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The U.S. Treasury says the national debt is roughly $39 trillion, but a nonpartisan accounting group estimates that the true number is $170.3 trillion.
Unlike the Treasury's calculations, Truth in Accounting included all of the federal government's unfunded obligations in its debt assessment, including unfunded promises like Social Security and Medicare benefits.

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Quote:

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In practice, that means the federal government will have to tax people an additional $170 trillion over the next 75 years in order to fund those benefits.
Divided equally, that amounts to an extra $1.1 million per U.S. taxpayer, on top of the Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes the government is already taking.

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Hey great-grandchildren, I love you.

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fixed it for you!

Principal Uncertainty said:

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If they are going to criticize the government for reporting numbers that seem to skew reality, it's hypocritical of them to also report numbers that skew reality. The $1.1MM owed by each taxpayer is paid not all at once, but over the 75 years per their own data. That's more like $14,000 per year per taxpayer. It's a high number, but not nearly as impossible as they are trying to make it sound, especially when taxpayers like me pay 6 figures in taxes. The finances of the US are bad, and close to going over the tipping point of no return. But we've not quite fallen far enough as to make corrections meaningless like this reporting tries to make it appear. Now is the time for resolution, not resignation.

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$14,000 per year + whatever the federal spending will be each year for the next 75 years.

People have been talking about this for a really long time so it's nothing new. Nothing happened then and nothing will happen now.

Also, unless you and your wife have separate checking accounts and tax returns, thinking about it in terms of "per taxpayer" seems less effective than "per household." If there's 120M households in America, that puts the obligation close to $1.5M/household.

Finally, if that sounds like a lot of money, keep in mind the average takehome salary in 50 years will probably be $1M+ due to inflation. That's if the human race still exists.

flown-the-coop said:

---

Picard said:

---

All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

---

I am curious. For you and the 5 who starred this as of this reply, but what are you doing to "prepare accordingly"?

Water source, shelter and ammo?

Buying gold with William Devaine?

Holding Chinese Yuan and Mexican Pesos?

Just curious how one prepares for a debt collapse in the United States.

---

start learning mandarin

sts7049 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

---

Picard said:

---

All of our 401ks are IRAs are about to become worthless, right along with the dollar.

Prepare accordingly.

---

I am curious. For you and the 5 who starred this as of this reply, but what are you doing to "prepare accordingly"?

Water source, shelter and ammo?

Buying gold with William Devaine?

Holding Chinese Yuan and Mexican Pesos?

Just curious how one prepares for a debt collapse in the United States.

---

start learning mandarin

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You mean the country that has never successfully invaded another country (at least one its not adjacent too and even then not really successfully) in its… 4,000 THOUSAND YEAR HISTORY is going to wipe out the United States?

Got it.