***Iran [Military Action Thread]***[See Staff Note in OP]

2,258,002 Views | 10395 Replies | Last: 2 min ago by DeschutesAg
MagnumLoad
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Ducks4brkfast said:

nosoupforyou said:

LMCane said:

Iran stops negotiations with U.S., vows to 'completely' block Strait of Hormuz: State media
Published Mon, Jun 1 20269:33 AM EDTUpdated 13 Min Ago

Tehran will also move to fully block the Strait of Hormuz, Tasnim reported.



Genuine question - realistic answers only please - how would they actually do this if they wanted to?


With the same missiles they're sending to Kuwait.

Then why aren't they using missiles against our naval blockade vessels?
I hate tu. It's in my blood.
MJ20/20
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shiftyandquick said:

Iran wants to negotiate the best deal possible. They perceive that their greatest leverage will occur when there are actually shortages of oil/gas, and the prices skyrocket, and economies start faltering.

The smart money realizes that no deal will happen until then.

This is probably Iran's best approach. If Trump has a soft underbelly it's his fear of the markets (honestly, all presidents have to respect the markets to different extents). Iran needs all the help it can get in the negotiating process and oil/gas shortages and interrupted commerce is probably the only card they have left.
txaggie_08
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He should have never stopped bombing while he worked towards a peace agreement. With bombing halted, Iran feels they have the upper hand controlling the Strait and no incentive to see an end to this conflict. We've given them the power and they're going to use it against Trump.
rgag12
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MJ20/20 said:

shiftyandquick said:

Iran wants to negotiate the best deal possible. They perceive that their greatest leverage will occur when there are actually shortages of oil/gas, and the prices skyrocket, and economies start faltering.

The smart money realizes that no deal will happen until then.

This is probably Iran's best approach. If Trump has a soft underbelly it's his fear of the markets (honestly, all presidents have to respect the markets to different extents). Iran needs all the help it can get in the negotiating process and oil/gas shortages and interrupted commerce is probably the only card they have left.


Trump does care about the markets tremendously, he has a bigger weakness though: his vanity. He cares about how people see him and his place in history above all.

I firmly believe Trump was ready to pull the trigger on a deal that would've restored everything back to pre-war conditions, secured a verbal promise from Iran saying no nukes (which everyone knew would be BS), and a couple billion for Iran via sanctions relief.

Then he realized that his most loyal base would view him as a big ***** if this was the deal he got after all the action and bluster. It'd tarnish his legacy, might even be the most defining part of it. He reversed course and dug in. I guess we'll see what happens now.
javajaws
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Trump's problem is that he continually undervalues Iran's ability to withstand a little military and economic pain. He's treating them like they are a first world country when they aren't.

1) You can't negotiate with terrorists, especially when said terrorists don't collectively speak with one voice
2) You can't out-wait them. Their leadership has all the power and will take everything they can to remain comfortable and in-control until total collapse.
3) Their religion is a stronger driver for them to keep resisting than anything we have on our side (economy and elections).

The only way to make progress that doesn't involve just pulling out of the region entirely is to further degrade their military, economy, and infrastructure until total collapse is imminent.
lb3
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MagnumLoad said:

Ducks4brkfast said:

nosoupforyou said:

LMCane said:

Iran stops negotiations with U.S., vows to 'completely' block Strait of Hormuz: State media
Published Mon, Jun 1 20269:33 AM EDTUpdated 13 Min Ago

Tehran will also move to fully block the Strait of Hormuz, Tasnim reported.



Genuine question - realistic answers only please - how would they actually do this if they wanted to?


With the same missiles they're sending to Kuwait.

Then why aren't they using missiles against our naval blockade vessels?
we're conducting our naval blockade from the Indian Ocean.
will25u
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

- Abraham Lincoln
Vox Clamantis
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javajaws said:

Trump's problem is that he continually undervalues Iran's ability to withstand a little military and economic pain. He's treating them like they are a first world country when they aren't.

1) You can't negotiate with terrorists, especially when said terrorists don't collectively speak with one voice
2) You can't out-wait them. Their leadership has all the power and will take everything they can to remain comfortable and in-control until total collapse.
3) Their religion is a stronger driver for them to keep resisting than anything we have on our side (economy and elections).

The only way to make progress that doesn't involve just pulling out of the region entirely is to further degrade their military, economy, and infrastructure until total collapse is imminent.

Brilliant analysis.

Our problem is that we view the situation as "hurt them multiples of how much they hurt us" without considering their ability to withstand pain.

The same with China. If Iran and China have to lose half of their population to stay in power, they'll do it without blinking an eye.

The only problem is that's an extremely long, grueling, and painful campaign, which is not what the American public signed up for, nor is it what Trump has been promising.
Gaeilge
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No **** Sherlock...
sts7049
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they could, but attacking our assets directly only triggers a direct response which they will lose. it's far easier for them to attack the harmless vessels (or even just threaten to) and cause massive disruption in the global economy.
American Hardwood
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Iran blaming Israel for the end of any so-called ceasefire is just a psyop to divide the US from Israel. Iran has provoked every military response they've been given. Don't fall for this bull*****
The Fall Guy
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will25u said:




Nothing in any news outlet yet
LMCane
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the strategy SHOULD be this

1) announce to the American public that US military forces are attacking various important critical nodes in the Islamic Republic

2) this operation will conclude in 72 hours

3) negotiations for obtaining the Uranium will begin after 72 hours

4) if there is no progress on negotiations, we reserve the right to begin another 72 hour campaign in the future
LMCane
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The Fall Guy said:

will25u said:




Nothing in any news outlet yet

just click bait referring to the previous anti-SAM strikes from 10 hours ago
YouBet
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Gaeilge said:

No **** Sherlock...



I guess Iran State TV is unaware that they already ended negotiations.
American Hardwood
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I disagree. Stop with the term "negotiate". It only serves to elevate the enemy. The terms need to be, "The bombing will continue until the nuclear materials are surrendered or conditions are provided such that a party not named Iran can freely extract the materials."
MagnumLoad
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Yes. I would have never negotiated. Here are our terms. We keep destroying your infrastructure until you agree and cooperate.

ETA, Trump should ditch his compassionate approach.
I hate tu. It's in my blood.
eater of the list
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[We've been clear not to derail this thread with political potshots. Take it to a different thread. Continue with it here and your timeouts will increase in length -- Staff]
aezmvp
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I get the patient let their economy implode strategy and the lack of need for infrastructure rebuilding in the event of regime change. Time to end that. Hit the power plants, oil storage and transport. Take out the bridges. End it. Vietnam taught us half measure lead to bad endings.
flown-the-coop
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The broader markets and global economy has already priced in a long term resolution in Iran. Oil continues an overall decline (spike today but it can be described as declining sets of peaks followed by lower and lower valleys).

At this point I am not sure much is affected if we continue the lull in action or start bombing again, which is been reflected to a large extent by what's been going on for 60 days or so now.
DeschutesAg
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javajaws said:

Trump's problem is that he continually undervalues Iran's ability to withstand a little military and economic pain. He's treating them like they are a first world country when they aren't.

1) You can't negotiate with terrorists, especially when said terrorists don't collectively speak with one voice
2) You can't out-wait them. Their leadership has all the power and will take everything they can to remain comfortable and in-control until total collapse.
3) Their religion is a stronger driver for them to keep resisting than anything we have on our side (economy and elections).

The only way to make progress that doesn't involve just pulling out of the region entirely is to further degrade their military, economy, and infrastructure until total collapse is imminent.
Bingo.

True cult religion fanatics are gonna fanatic.

The region is about to see a lot more waw-waw and a lot less jaw-jaw for awhile. (Churchhill reference).

The Iranian regime is essentially saying: "You hit us with some hard, stinging jabs to the face in Round 1 last summer. Then you punched the hell out of us in Round 2 in March. Yawn. Let's get back in the ring and see what else you got. Send in 150,000 ground troops. We dare you."

The U.S. can't afford to back down now. We must hit them hard.

Militarily-speaking, now would be a wise time to replace Hegseth with a seasoned, Middle East region war-experienced, objective, top-quality professional as SecDef. This conflict is now on a path that may quickly escalate into a fullscale ground war with tens of thousands of U.S. ground troops.

Iran will attempt some punches of their own. Completely closing the SoH is the most obvious objective for the Iranians to try. Another important one is their capability to destroy or significantly damage infrastructure in UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and Saudi Arabia.

Trump and Netanyahu started a hot war. They thought it would be over in 6 to 8 weeks. But now it could go on for years if the IRGC and Iranian military refuse to submit to U.S. demands. It is what it is. We should commit fully now to war, imo, and use force to cause regime change.
OldArmy71
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Quote:

This conflict is now on a path that may quickly escalate into a fullscale ground war with tens of thousands of U.S. ground troops.


I know you know this and I can't imagine why you have said it, but we are not going to send tens of thousands of troops into Iran.
flown-the-coop
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Ground troops in any significant number are NOT in the plans for Iran. Not sure why that talking point persists but it ignores many factors at play in Iran. Starting with how unpopular the Islamic regime is and how tenuous their grip on power was and now even more so. Same goes for any projecting of a "civil war" - internal regime change takes the form of a soft coup vs years long shooting at their neighbors.

Hegseth has been absolutely masterful as Secretary of War as evidenced by the immensely successful strikes on Iran last summer, the action in Venezuela and the Carribean and the incredible success of the strikes to take out the Iranian leadership and the fantastically effective blockade. It would be asinine to consider a replacement of his leadership.

Oman's future has been made very clear to them. Any concept they could play along with Iran to control the SoH has been completely smacked down. Their Islamic regime has been one of the weaker and it may not take much for it to topple on its own, particularly with the other Arab states aligning with the United States with Trump at the helm.

People underestimate the military assets of places like the UAE. Them not using them thus far does not mean they do not have them or know how to use them when called upon.
shiftyandquick
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MJ20/20 said:

shiftyandquick said:

Iran wants to negotiate the best deal possible. They perceive that their greatest leverage will occur when there are actually shortages of oil/gas, and the prices skyrocket, and economies start faltering.

The smart money realizes that no deal will happen until then.

This is probably Iran's best approach. If Trump has a soft underbelly it's his fear of the markets (honestly, all presidents have to respect the markets to different extents). Iran needs all the help it can get in the negotiating process and oil/gas shortages and interrupted commerce is probably the only card they have left.

Their other major card is attacking the US's Arabic allies in the Middle East. Those countries can push back on Trump and ask/demand that the US not attack, in order to prevent themselves from being attacked. They have some leverage it appears.
LMCane
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you made one incorrect statement-

Trump and Netanyahu did not start the war.

the Islamic Republic has been waging war against the USA for 47 years.

MagnumLoad
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shiftyandquick said:

MJ20/20 said:

shiftyandquick said:

Iran wants to negotiate the best deal possible. They perceive that their greatest leverage will occur when there are actually shortages of oil/gas, and the prices skyrocket, and economies start faltering.

The smart money realizes that no deal will happen until then.

This is probably Iran's best approach. If Trump has a soft underbelly it's his fear of the markets (honestly, all presidents have to respect the markets to different extents). Iran needs all the help it can get in the negotiating process and oil/gas shortages and interrupted commerce is probably the only card they have left.

Their other major card is attacking the US's Arabic allies in the Middle East. Those countries can push back on Trump and ask/demand that the US not attack, in order to prevent themselves from being attacked. They have some leverage it appears.

They also have the capability to shoot back. We have asked them to restrain so far.
I hate tu. It's in my blood.
The Fall Guy
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Sounds like a tanker off of Iraq was hit
Gaeilge
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javajaws
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Gaeilge said:




Honestly, if he doesn't want to re-start bombing them en masse, then "going quiet" is probably the next best thing. Let them beg to come back to the negotiating table and stop making these faux news announcements of an imminent agreement every other day. Putting up with their BS negotiating tactics makes him look weak.
DTP02
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Gaeilge said:





Good plan. The only problem with it is it requires Trump to stop Trump.
DeschutesAg
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LMCane said:

you made one incorrect statement-

Trump and Netanyahu did not start the war.

the Islamic Republic has been waging war against the USA for 47 years.


Iran and the US have been in a cold war / warm war for 47 years. A cold war / warm war is not a hot war. This is a hot war, and it probably will escalate and get a lot hotter.
4
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will25u said:



Great. Can we sustain the attacks this time until they collapse completely, please?

Can we remove their infrastructure so that they are living in a hunter/gatherer society again?

These people can not be negotiated with. They want to die. They want to usher in the end of the world. It's their entire goal.

The only thing you can do with an ideology like that is completely snuff it out from the face of the Earth.

We will never have another chance like this one again to do exactly that. I'm not sure Trump understands them. He seems to think everyone can be negotiated with.
Owlagdad
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Troops on the ground is a buzz phrase that Trump has another Viet Nam. It is meant to increase hand wringing from the old hippies and from soccer moms who don't want their kids drafted.
Gaeilge
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flown-the-coop
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Trump's blockade has been so effective even Iran is seeking alternatives to the Strait of Hormuz.

https://www.isna.ir/news/1405030804066/%D8%AF%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B1-%D9%BE%D8%B2%D8%B4%DA%A9%DB%8C%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%B9%D9%87-%DA%A9%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%AF%D9%88%D8%B1%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%AC%D8%A7%DB%8C%DA%AF%D8%B2%DB%8C%D9%86-%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%8C-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%B7%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%82-%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%B1

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