Here is documentation of the beginning of a country's decline due to AI. Based on my personal interaction with Indian consulting companies: I have empathy, but absolutely no sympathy.

"In the 2023 fiscal year, the top four IT exporters (consulting companies) hired a combined 225,000 fresh graduates; by fiscal 2024, that figure had plummeted by over 70% to some 60,000."

"The IT sector, which employs 5.4 million people and contributes 8% of the country's GDP, forms the very backbone of urban middle-class employment."

"The driving force behind this disruption is AI, which … could automate 30-40% of the work done by junior software developers and testers.

"A material portion of the 8-9 million people entering the workforce annually is competing for a pool of just 50,000 net new IT jobs projected per year from FY26-28."

https://indiadispatch.com/p/hollow-at-the-base


This likely foreshadows what is going to happen to many American jobs especially for those graduating over the next 5 years.

BTW, I smile when I see one of those cringy and mindless "boomers are bad" attacks; wondering how this is our fault (again)?

Those 50k net new IT jobs are likely all jobs at or for US companies. [/infinity ag]

Although he's probably right.

Edit: I have little sympathy for them either as I am one who has dealt directly with their racist nepotism via some guys I worked with for 15+ years and liked/respected until I hit that wall with them.

Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

Sid Farkas said:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I had the "opportunity" to go and declined. I have no desire to go on a trip where your own employer tells you to basically not leave the hotel and do not eat anywhere but the hotel because of health concerns.

No thanks.

When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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Now that is pretty cynical, lol.

titan said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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Now that is pretty cynical, lol.

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Yet amazingly accurate.

I had the same thought as Sid... if someone can say India and "decline" without busting in to laughter has obviously never been.

We spent 10 days there back in 2008 and that was likely, almost surely, enough time for me for the rest of my life.

To the OP though, yes the menial, transactional tasks are ripe for AI replacement / augmentation. If you wanted to be a smart young whipper snapper, developing skills to validate / audit AI processes and results will be a big thing as AI invades into accounting / finance more and more.

titan said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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Now that is pretty cynical, lol.

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I hate to break it to you but that's a LOT of former English colonies. When the Brits went out it took all of the incentives for corruption and dialed them to 11. They were there before, like everywhere, but yeah crazy how outside of Singapore, Israel, and the other 5 eyes... not much. So all of their African, Asian and Caribbean colonies are just not better off or not much in comparison to those. Largely, but not solely, based on the failure of local government.

Sid Farkas said:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I've been to India at least 10 times and I've been to 40+ countries.

The only one I can think of that was worse was Cairo, Egypt in 1984. Even Kenya in 1985 was better.

Now, I did not go to Haiti but my parents did. Even in the early 1970s it was deemed unsafe for children. So Haiti might be worse.

aezmvp said:

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titan said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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Now that is pretty cynical, lol.

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I hate to break it to you but that's a LOT of former English colonies. When the Brits went out it took all of the incentives for corruption and dialed them to 11. They were there before, like everywhere, but yeah crazy how outside of Singapore, Israel, and the other 5 eyes... not much. So all of their African, Asian and Caribbean colonies are just not better off or not much in comparison to those. Largely, but not solely, based on the failure of local government.

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Oh very familiar with that phenomena. I just thought it cynical considering India had flourishes of real promise and it didn't have to necessarily regress or falter. ;-)

With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

HollywoodBQ said:

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With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Once you get a jeet into CIO level they gut the entire organization and bring in their own. Americans are ******ed for allowing this.

aezmvp said:

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titan said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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Now that is pretty cynical, lol.

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I hate to break it to you but that's a LOT of former English colonies. When the Brits went out it took all of the incentives for corruption and dialed them to 11. They were there before, like everywhere, but yeah crazy how outside of Singapore, Israel, and the other 5 eyes... not much. So all of their African, Asian and Caribbean colonies are just not better off or not much in comparison to those. Largely, but not solely, based on the failure of local government.

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The obvious common denominator here is culture and Western ideology. Few of these former colonies have either so they regress to their inferior, cultural mean.

That's the hard truth.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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I'm not a leftist that cries about colonialism, but its effects are pervasive.

Pookers said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Once you get a jeet into CIO level they gut the entire organization and bring in their own. Americans are ******ed for allowing this.

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Happened at my former corporate employer. Gutted and outsourced IT to India for "cost savings". I told my leadership peers when we did that it would fail and it did, so after 10 years that tried to bring it back in-house. I now hear they are pushing it all back to India because there is an Indian guy on the BoD who is pushing it.

Flat out ethnic nepotism.

YouBet said:

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Those 50k net new IT jobs are likely all jobs at or for US companies. [/infinity ag]

Although he's probably right.

Edit: I have little sympathy for them either as I am one who has dealt directly with their racist nepotism via some guys I worked with for 15+ years and liked/respected until I hit that wall with them.

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Try selling a car to an Indian person over the age of 50...or anything with a commission component. They will be millionaires and haggle you completely out of any commission on an $80k car. Oh, and they will lie and go back on their deals at the last minute. A handshake or agreement means nothing to them.

I know a guy who literally refused to help Indian people on the car lot with almost zero exceptions because his experiences were so bad. He said young Indian American couples weren't nearly as bad (I am assuming they have been more Americanized)...but that the older ones were HORRIBLE.

And don't ever rep them in buying a home. Let other Indians do that.

This is not a racial/ethnic jab....it's a cultural one though. India's culture is vastly inferior to ours.

But there's reason to be optimistic...

"It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity."

Not disagreeing with your point, but my experience was the Indians would work when I need them too, even if I needed them 60 hours/week for an extended period of time. Only 1/4 (or less) of Americans would do this

Edit: sometimes schedule is king.

YouBet said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I had the "opportunity" to go and declined. I have no desire to go on a trip where your own employer tells you to basically not leave the hotel and do not eat anywhere but the hotel because of health concerns.

No thanks.

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So... no Mexico for you?

I've been to India, Venezuela, Mexico, and probably half a dozen other countries you likely would never visit.

You probably like to vacation Internationally with all the other Americans and where only English is spoken.

Rocky Rider said:

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"It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity."

Not disagreeing with your point, but my experience was the Indians would work when I need them too, even if I needed them 60 hours/week for an extended period of time. Only 1/4 (or less) of Americans would do this

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I mean, they're desperate, they come from a crap hole country with third world infrastructure and people just poop in open fields there. My friends witnessed this on a train ride lol. OF COURSE they will do just about anything for money or a chance to go to a much better place. You could probably convince many of them to give sexual favors, in addition to working soul crushing hours.

If you were dirt poor, lived in a place that smelled like raw sewage, and you saw what life was like in America, you'd probably sign up to work 90+ hours a week if it gave you a decent chance at getting the F out of there and to a place with endless food option, A/C, and flushable toilets.

Yeah, we had an Indian consultant who was phenomenal. Guy worked whenever we needed something and was incredibly knowledgeable. Super nice too. He was the only one we needed to get things done.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Yeah, we had an Indian consultant who was phenomenal. Guy worked whenever we needed something and was incredibly knowledgeable. Super nice too. He was the only one we needed to get things done.

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Don't get it twisted, this is only because they are desperate and living in a hellish crap hole. See my post above yours. That tends to motivate.

DallasAg 94 said:

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YouBet said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I had the "opportunity" to go and declined. I have no desire to go on a trip where your own employer tells you to basically not leave the hotel and do not eat anywhere but the hotel because of health concerns.

No thanks.

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So... no Mexico for you?

I've been to India, Venezuela, Mexico, and probably half a dozen other countries you likely would never visit.

You probably like to vacation Internationally with all the other Americans and where only English is spoken.

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Trash talk someone for not wanting to go to a third world hellhole with a vastly inferior culture. Only on Texags.

I promise you I am just fine never having gone to Africa or India. And hard pass on Venezuela. But you do you. Got a chance to brag I guess

Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

Queso1 said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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I'm not a leftist that cries about colonialism, but its effects are pervasive.

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There's an argument to be made that the East India Company actually played a causal role in the decline of the British empire. Who infected who with what ideas, structures, problems, and ramifications is highly debatable.

Indian caste structure/culture, combined with British aristocratic notions did not work out long term to the benefit of either, imho. What's to me incontrovertibly true is that the decisions made in the aftermath of both WW1 and WW2 by the British in the Middle East, and India/Pakistan/Bangladesh (as known today) are responsible for a grotesque amount of human suffering over the past 70+ years.

Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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Ive been all over Goa and loved it. Planning on a return trip in 2026 on our way to Maldives.

DallasAg 94 said:

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YouBet said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I had the "opportunity" to go and declined. I have no desire to go on a trip where your own employer tells you to basically not leave the hotel and do not eat anywhere but the hotel because of health concerns.

No thanks.

---

So... no Mexico for you?

I've been to India, Venezuela, Mexico, and probably half a dozen other countries you likely would never visit.

You probably like to vacation Internationally with all the other Americans and where only English is spoken.

---

Been to Mexico a few times since I live in Texas. I certainly wouldn't visit a Mexican border town in 2025 for obvious reasons (other than Boquillas), but walked across border and did it back in the 90s. Been to Mexico City.

It's nicer than India based on everyone I've ever talked to who has been to India which is quite a few people. It's a ****hole and is famous for being a ****hole.

And lol at going to Venezuela. F* no I wouldn't go there. It's a state run by an anti-American, communist dictator who has a $50M bounty on his head by Trump. Boy, you really got me there! lol.

OF COURSE Indian IT was going to be the first casualty to AI coding. In my peripheral experience they're completely disinterested in the context of their code & just care about delivering some slop that accomplishes the immediate requirement. What value could NPC coding possibly have over an NPC AI?

It's not trash talk. It is typical. Most Americans go to other countries wanting them to be like America.

They expect them to speak English like Americans and they want all the Western amenities or it is a terrible place.

If I want to vacation or visit Americans... I have a whole country to visit.

While in India, one of my colleagues indicated they had a relative engaged to someone from Texas and they were having a wedding in Texas and in Chennai. There were 20 guests coming from Texas to Chennai. "None of them have a passport. Is that common?" I said probably less than half of Americans don't have a passport and probably less than 20% have been off North America.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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YouBet said:

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Those 50k net new IT jobs are likely all jobs at or for US companies. [/infinity ag]

Although he's probably right.

Edit: I have little sympathy for them either as I am one who has dealt directly with their racist nepotism via some guys I worked with for 15+ years and liked/respected until I hit that wall with them.

---

Try selling a car to an Indian person over the age of 50...or anything with a commission component. They will be millionaires and haggle you completely out of any commission on an $80k car. Oh, and they will lie and go back on their deals at the last minute. A handshake or agreement means nothing to them.

I know a guy who literally refused to help Indian people on the car lot with almost zero exceptions because his experiences were so bad. He said young Indian American couples weren't nearly as bad (I am assuming they have been more Americanized)...but that the older ones were HORRIBLE.

And don't ever rep them in buying a home. Let other Indians do that.

This is not a racial/ethnic jab....it's a cultural one though. India's culture is vastly inferior to ours.

---

Culture is downstream of race, there is no reason to bounce around this concept.

Rocky Rider said:

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"It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity."

Not disagreeing with your point, but my experience was the Indians would work when I need them too, even if I needed them 60 hours/week for an extended period of time. Only 1/4 (or less) of Americans would do this

Edit: sometimes schedule is king.

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My experience is that the Indians need to work 60 hours per week to accomplish the same thing an American could have accomplished in 6 hours per week.

DallasAg 94 said:

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It's not trash talk. It is typical. Most Americans go to other countries wanting them to be like America.

They expect them to speak English like Americans and they want all the Western amenities or it is a terrible place.

If I want to vacation or visit Americans... I have a whole country to visit.

While in India, one of my colleagues indicated they had a relative engaged to someone from Texas and they were having a wedding in Texas and in Chennai. There were 20 guests coming from Texas to Chennai. "None of them have a passport. Is that common?" I said probably less than half of Americans don't have a passport and probably less than 20% have been off North America.

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They want to get the hell out of their nightmare of a country and we don't,...for obvious reasons. It realy is that simple.

Look, I like going to places that aren't fancy, and don't have all of our amenities...but I would never want to live there, or spend more than a few days there. Puerto Vallarta was cool...I used to enjoy the Mexican border towns with my friends...bull fights in Piedras Negras were fun. But those places are still hell holes compared to here, unless you are super loaded maybe.

Stone Choir said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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YouBet said:

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Those 50k net new IT jobs are likely all jobs at or for US companies. [/infinity ag]

Although he's probably right.

Edit: I have little sympathy for them either as I am one who has dealt directly with their racist nepotism via some guys I worked with for 15+ years and liked/respected until I hit that wall with them.

---

Try selling a car to an Indian person over the age of 50...or anything with a commission component. They will be millionaires and haggle you completely out of any commission on an $80k car. Oh, and they will lie and go back on their deals at the last minute. A handshake or agreement means nothing to them.

I know a guy who literally refused to help Indian people on the car lot with almost zero exceptions because his experiences were so bad. He said young Indian American couples weren't nearly as bad (I am assuming they have been more Americanized)...but that the older ones were HORRIBLE.

And don't ever rep them in buying a home. Let other Indians do that.

This is not a racial/ethnic jab....it's a cultural one though. India's culture is vastly inferior to ours.

---

Culture is downstream of race, there is no reason to bounce around this concept.

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Want to know why I say it? Because I have seen 1st and 2nd generation Indian/Americans who are NOTHING like their parents. Many of them DO tend to assimilate, from my experience, I'll give them that.

Rocky Rider said:

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"It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity."

Not disagreeing with your point, but my experience was the Indians would work when I need them too, even if I needed them 60 hours/week for an extended period of time. Only 1/4 (or less) of Americans would do this

Edit: sometimes schedule is king.

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There is a nursery rhyme song in here somewhere, I can feel it.

DallasAg 94 said:

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It's not trash talk. It is typical. Most Americans go to other countries wanting them to be like America.

They expect them to speak English like Americans and they want all the Western amenities or it is a terrible place.

If I want to vacation or visit Americans... I have a whole country to visit.

While in India, one of my colleagues indicated they had a relative engaged to someone from Texas and they were having a wedding in Texas and in Chennai. There were 20 guests coming from Texas to Chennai. "None of them have a passport. Is that common?" I said probably less than half of Americans don't have a passport and probably less than 20% have been off North America.

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I've never expected that. I'm absolutely a "when in Rome" kind of guy. I studied for a summer in Germany during grad school. It was incredible. Had a classmate I almost got into a fist fight with because his dumbass was acting like an arrogant American at a restaurant one time wanting them to change some dish for him. You are in another country - eat their food and drink their drink; don't be a woman and ask them to customize your order.

Germany was/is also a western country where I didn't have to worry about my safety and hygiene. If I'm going to travel out of the country, those are two top consideration especially in a world that is legitmately degrading on many geopolitical fronts.