Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I've been. It is a fascinating place.

One thinks they may have seen poverty....until you see it in India, you haven't.

Your mileage may vary. LoL.

Went to Vz 20+ yrs ago before it's huge decline. When I went, I was required *for work) to stay above the 19th floor. Bullet trajectory, and all. LoL.

You can't escape the poverty of India, nor the problems they have.

I'd recommend going, if given the chance. Beijing is another place.

You really can't grasp the circumstances without having gone. It will increase your appreciation for what America provides. And, as I told my colleagues on the trip... "you can't fully appreciate the problems the Govt needs to solve without going."

There are 5 Indians in India for every American in the US. The size and scale of what needs to be addressed is overwhelming. Every time you see a car on the highway... think what it would look like if there were 4 more.

The Dehli metro area (loose term) has 36M people. What is that... 7x what is in DFW? With 1.6B people... they have the equivalency of almost 50 of those. NYC has what? 18M?

I would have absolutely gone to VZ before Chavez and Maduro. It was the richest country in South America before they destroyed it.

I still want to go to Chile and possibly Argentina. Maybe Colombia.

I agree with you.

I really enjoyed Germany.

Those are worthy considerations.

Now... I can be little more of a risk taker than others.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Yeah, we had an Indian consultant who was phenomenal. Guy worked whenever we needed something and was incredibly knowledgeable. Super nice too. He was the only one we needed to get things done.

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But, there was only one of him.

It wasn't like there were 5 different Indian guys who could reliably get the job done.

There's always a unicorn out there.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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Ive been all over Goa and loved it. Planning on a return trip in 2026 on our way to Maldives.

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Goa was settled by the Portuguese and is Catholic.

Key difference.

And it was a difference I didn't fully appreciate until I went there myself.

rocky the dog said:

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But there's reason to be optimistic...

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My dad was in India during WW2, and the running joke was "A train hit a bicycle and 18 people were killed. Nobody on the train was injured".

DallasAg 94 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

Was it the number of stray dogs? Cows in the street blocking traffic? Or people washing their laundry in the small lake next to your luxury hotel?

For me, it was the blatant disregard for lane lines.

The Indian drivers ability to squeeze 5 lanes of traffic into 3 marked lanes could definitely be useful when parking cars at Kyle Field. Of course they weren't driving F-350s either so, that strategy probably wouldn't work for us.

YouBet said:

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Pookers said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

---

Once you get a jeet into CIO level they gut the entire organization and bring in their own. Americans are ******ed for allowing this.

---

Happened at my former corporate employer. Gutted and outsourced IT to India for "cost savings". I told my leadership peers when we did that it would fail and it did, so after 10 years that tried to bring it back in-house. I now hear they are pushing it all back to India because there is an Indian guy on the BoD who is pushing it.

Flat out ethnic nepotism.

---

Something Americans don't have because the dirt is magic here apparently.

I watched a guy bathe on a deep pothole outside the Taj Mumbai (amazingly he had shorts on).

But yes, dogs, camels, elephants - including the one that chased us down the street after visiting the Taj in Agra.

And despite constant signage to remind you to keep you your side street, all lanes, directions and traffic control were gleefully disregarded.

YouBet said:

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I would have absolutely gone to VZ before Chavez and Maduro. It was the richest country in South America before they destroyed it.

I still want to go to Chile and possibly Argentina. Maybe Colombia.

---

When we left Alaska in 1977 after the pipeline was finished, my dad had the opportunity to go to:
Iran
Venezuela
South Africa
Saudi Arabia

We had friends who went to each of those countries and all of them wound up in Saudi Arabia later.

I'm really glad we went directly to KSA as the first stop.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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YouBet said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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I had the "opportunity" to go and declined. I have no desire to go on a trip where your own employer tells you to basically not leave the hotel and do not eat anywhere but the hotel because of health concerns.

No thanks.

---

So... no Mexico for you?

I've been to India, Venezuela, Mexico, and probably half a dozen other countries you likely would never visit.

You probably like to vacation Internationally with all the other Americans and where only English is spoken.

---

Trash talk someone for not wanting to go to a third world hellhole with a vastly inferior culture. Only on Texags.

I promise you I am just fine never having gone to Africa or India. And hard pass on Venezuela. But you do you. Got a chance to brag I guess

---

Yeah, the self-righteous indignation is strong with this one; it screams "I'm super tolerant & not judgmental at all; I'm such a good person & everyone else sucks!"

I've lived in Mexico, albeit before the Cartels took over; I've lived in Southern France, & I thought Marseilles was a hellhole b/c of the Moroccans, while Milan felt like the "Detroit" of Europe. And then I did some sneaky Pete BS in a couple Muslim countries, particularly one where Al Queda Chetchens blew my ass up; despite all that, I have ZERO desire to ever go to India!

The oppressive heat, the stench, the venomous snakes, the inability to eat anything w/o getting violently ill, & the presence of beggars everywhere you go- yeah, **** THAT!

That's my subjective opinion; if anyone wants to label me a racist or a coddled American, oh well! At least I'm not in INDIA!!
(STILL, the arrogance of DallasAg to criticize folks' disdain for a third-world **** hole, even though I bet very few Americans are willing to be dropped off smack dab in bum***istan where you're surrounded by blood-thirsty Chetchens & other dudes that excel in MMA; the fact I experienced that & still won't go to India means I'm not a coddled American. Instead, I've seen enough National Geographic specials to make an informed, albeit "biased/ prejudiced" decision not to go to India- EVER!)

Pookers said:

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YouBet said:

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Pookers said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

---

Once you get a jeet into CIO level they gut the entire organization and bring in their own. Americans are ******ed for allowing this.

---

Happened at my former corporate employer. Gutted and outsourced IT to India for "cost savings". I told my leadership peers when we did that it would fail and it did, so after 10 years that tried to bring it back in-house. I now hear they are pushing it all back to India because there is an Indian guy on the BoD who is pushing it.

Flat out ethnic nepotism.

---

Something Americans don't have because the dirt is magic here apparently.

---

I used to make sales calls in the IT departments at the City and County agencies in Los Angeles.

On paper, Los Angeles is very diverse.
But in reality, Los Angeles isn't diverse at all.

Everybody groups together at various agencies by ethnicity.

Vietnamese at one, Filipinos at another, Mexicans at one and Japanese at the next one. It was downright comical at times. I always wondered, who got hired first and then brought all their friends and family along?

In case you were concerned, there were still a few agencies that employed Blacks and Fire seemed to be the last bastion of White folks. Of course this was 15+ years ago, long before Pacific Palisades and LA Fire being taken over by Lesbians.

HollywoodBQ said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

Was it the number of stray dogs? Cows in the street blocking traffic? Or people washing their laundry in the small lake next to your luxury hotel?

For me, it was the blatant disregard for lane lines.

The Indian drivers ability to squeeze 5 lanes of traffic into 3 marked lanes could definitely be useful when parking cars at Kyle Field. Of course they weren't driving F-350s either so, that strategy probably wouldn't work for us.

---

Those were all feature. I mean... a 3 lane highway with a dozen head of cattle just hanging out on the median and 2 of the lanes was no concern for my 2.5 hr drive to the airport, when I was 3 minutes ahead of cutoff to check luggage.

How can you (collective you) say you are a dog lover and not appreciate free range dogs?

Noida was nice. They had like a 6 story mall that was active and vibrant. Maybe we can try this "mall" concept.

Seriously, the food I had was fresh and rich. Unlike most American restaurants, where you eat so much salt you are left dehydrated. My pee was never as flowery. It was a bouquet of flowers smell.

Time. The emphasis on relationships. A meal would be 2hrs, or so. I was hosted for an in-home meal and walked amongst the people. They were warm and genuine.

Americans tend to be more disposable in their time, economics, and relationships. Among poorer communities (in the US and abroad) people tend to be more relational and engaged with each other.

Back to a point I made earlier... they need to solve different problems than we have to solve. America has more affluence and in a more developed state. India is poor. Emerging. I appreciate that many are trying to better the place.

Holidays and celebrations. A wedding in India (I didn't experience) is multiple days... the celebration and festivities have no comparison in the US, where more and more a simple singing if legal papers at the JP are all that are done.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

DallasAg 94 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

Was it the number of stray dogs? Cows in the street blocking traffic? Or people washing their laundry in the small lake next to your luxury hotel?

For me, it was the blatant disregard for lane lines.

The Indian drivers ability to squeeze 5 lanes of traffic into 3 marked lanes could definitely be useful when parking cars at Kyle Field. Of course they weren't driving F-350s either so, that strategy probably wouldn't work for us.

---

Haha this is what I want to know...

You sound coddled to me.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Hoyt Ag said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

Ive been all over Goa and loved it. Planning on a return trip in 2026 on our way to Maldives.

---

Goa was settled by the Portuguese and is Catholic.

Key difference.

And it was a difference I didn't fully appreciate until I went there myself.

---

Compare Africa countries colonized by Euros to those who were not. They former are generally better off,

Not surprised Goa is better

DallasAg 94 said:

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You sound coddled to me.

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Well, like, that's just your opinion... man!

(After 6 back surgeries & so many 'procedures' that I've lost count b/c of those Chetchen **********s, I'd argue the "coddled Americans" are the SMART ones!)

Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

It's entirely dependent on where you are. There are places that are virtually indistinguishable from modern American cities (and often much safer in terms of crime rates) and there are places that are third world **** holes. Overall it's definitely beneath western standards of living, but a lot of places are much nicer than Americans envision.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

---

I see this extensively too.
Part of this is because of the focus on Quarterly results. It is tough to make strategic, long-term decisions. The longer-term decision would be to have a team that's an extension of your US team, so that you can have true 24- hour development. Made this work at my last company.

But execs just care about cutting costs, because it makes your quarter look better (or less ****ty). So they just fired the US folks, and hired 4 times the number of Indians for 1/5th the quality of work.

HollywoodBQ said:

---

DallasAg 94 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

---

Their stance on violent crime. If anything they are aggressive and authoritarian in that regard, but it's a better extreme than here.

Glad you saw the humor in my intent.

I appreciate the sacrifice you've made and endure.

DallasAg 94 said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

DallasAg 94 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

Was it the number of stray dogs? Cows in the street blocking traffic? Or people washing their laundry in the small lake next to your luxury hotel?

For me, it was the blatant disregard for lane lines.

The Indian drivers ability to squeeze 5 lanes of traffic into 3 marked lanes could definitely be useful when parking cars at Kyle Field. Of course they weren't driving F-350s either so, that strategy probably wouldn't work for us.

---

Those were all feature. I mean... a 3 lane highway with a dozen head of cattle just hanging out on the median and 2 of the lanes was no concern for my 2.5 hr drive to the airport, when I was 3 minutes ahead of cutoff to check luggage.

How can you (collective you) say you are a dog lover and not appreciate free range dogs?

Noida was nice. They had like a 6 story mall that was active and vibrant. Maybe we can try this "mall" concept.

Seriously, the food I had was fresh and rich. Unlike most American restaurants, where you eat so much salt you are left dehydrated. My pee was never as flowery. It was a bouquet of flowers smell.

Time. The emphasis on relationships. A meal would be 2hrs, or so. I was hosted for an in-home meal and walked amongst the people. They were warm and genuine.

Americans tend to be more disposable in their time, economics, and relationships. Among poorer communities (in the US and abroad) people tend to be more relational and engaged with each other.

Back to a point I made earlier... they need to solve different problems than we have to solve. America has more affluence and in a more developed state. India is poor. Emerging. I appreciate that many are trying to better the place.

Holidays and celebrations. A wedding in India (I didn't experience) is multiple days... the celebration and festivities have no comparison in the US, where more and more a simple singing if legal papers at the JP are all that are done.

---

Goes to India, remembers well how great his piss smelled. Flowery. Bouquet of flowers.

Have you ever managed to find such great urinational bliss again?

I was there last over Christmas. I have family over there and my parents are fixing to move back for good here soon after being in Houston since 1964. Culturally, they're better off/more comfortable over there as they age.

It's come a long way in the last 20 years; but still a country of extremes. India is the only real hope for an ally in that part of the world so a politically important relationship for the US.

Rocky Rider said:

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"It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity."

Not disagreeing with your point, but my experience was the Indians would work when I need them too, even if I needed them 60 hours/week for an extended period of time. Only 1/4 (or less) of Americans would do this

Edit: sometimes schedule is king.

---

I have a direct anecdote from yesterday afternoon at my FIL's house. Last week, he called "IT" to get help with his desktop not recognizing his printer any more. He spent 3 hours on the phone with them, could not diagnose the issue, and they scheduled a follow-up for today to further diagnose the issue.

I did not know he was having an issue until he brought it up at lunch yesterday, and I sh!7 you not, I spent 5 minutes turning on the computer, finding the printer, making it the default, and successfully fixing the problem.

The "IT" that is outsourced is the scourge of the planet that uses every opportunity available to take advantage of the technologically uneducated older generation who do not know any better.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

It's entirely dependent on where you are. There are places that are virtually indistinguishable from modern American cities (and often much safer in terms of crime rates) and there are places that are third world **** holes. Overall it's definitely beneath western standards of living, but a lot of places are much nicer than Americans envision.

---

India has a per capita GDP of around $3K. Per year, not per month. We've got plenty of problems here, especially in our 'inner cities' (AKA Dem plantations) but nothing approaching that. Folks blame things like haggling, or the impacts of Jainism (leaving suffering animals to wander about) but the root of our disconnect imho with Indians in general is that incredible poverty level that is common there.

I have never been there, won't ever go, but I think when folks disparage Indians here for haggling etc. they miss part of the impact of their cultural/ethnographic/economic background.

Indian kids around north Texas have a generally visceral hatred of their trips back to India with family. To them, it's insulting to see how horrible/miserable India is. I know folks won't agree with me (this isn't a popularity post) but I think it will take time for this to evolve, though I think we should also cut back on Indian migration here.

It is absolutely going to destroy them. It is already impacting work across all technical fields in the US. At some point, the question has to be asked. What good is a company in a country without any consumers because they've all been replaced by AI, or even 30% are gone and are unemployeed?

What good is a business in a country with a dead economy? Who are you going to sell to?

India is a caste of billions.

nortex97 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

It's entirely dependent on where you are. There are places that are virtually indistinguishable from modern American cities (and often much safer in terms of crime rates) and there are places that are third world **** holes. Overall it's definitely beneath western standards of living, but a lot of places are much nicer than Americans envision.

---

India has a per capita GDP of around $3K. Per year, not per month. We've got plenty of problems here, especially in our 'inner cities' (AKA Dem plantations) but nothing approaching that. Folks blame things like haggling, or the impacts of Jainism (leaving suffering animals to wander about) but the root of our disconnect imho with Indians in general is that incredible poverty level that is common there.

I have never been there, won't ever go, but I think when folks disparage Indians here for haggling etc. they miss part of the impact of their cultural/ethnographic/economic background.

Indian kids around north Texas have a generally visceral hatred of their trips back to India with family. To them, it's insulting to see how horrible/miserable India is. I know folks won't agree with me (this isn't a popularity post) but I think it will take time for this to evolve, though I think we should also cut back on Indian migration here.

---

I'm surprised to hear it's that high. About 2 years back we went for a wedding and were told that over half of the population (let's say 800million people) live on less than $1,500/year. That's right, a year. Destitute does not truly begin to explain how bad a lot of the population lives over there. I'm not going to claim that I can even begin to fully understand all the angles, politics or cultural implications of the people of India, but from my impression there still very much exists a caste/class system over there. You are either rich or you are poor. There is literally no in between. The people were so incredibly kind and treated us like royalty while we were there, but the American mind truly cannot begin to fully fathom the wealth & standard of living disparity between our two countries. During our stay, I tipped a worker 1,000 rupies for carrying our bag to our room (and it was a VERY long way up multiple flights of stairs), but the man burst into tears when he received it as he had not seen that much income in over a year we were told. It was maybe $15 U.S., but it apparently was life changing money for this individual. From then on I could not open a door, pull out a chair, open a window, etc. without someone running to do it for me. After a week of being at our event, we were leaving in a taxi, and probably 20 men rushed our car when we were leaving as we were known as "big tippers".

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

DallasAg 94 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

I just got back.

It was Amazing.

I've been to ****tier places (can't disclose, but look to see who is below India). I've been to nicer places (Vienna).

If you measure against America, in terms of Western standards, you'll find it as a lower place. If you measure it based on your perception... you'll enjoy it. Never feared for my life like "some" places.

---

So what was the really good part of India or great Indian idea that you saw and thought... hey, we should do that in the USA?

---

Their stance on violent crime. If anything they are aggressive and authoritarian in that regard, but it's a better extreme than here.

---

Don't forget, I grew up in Saudi Arabia.

I got your violent crime antidote but most Americans wouldn't like it.

I just vacationed in Saudi in May 2025. Never felt unsafe at all - once I made it past the taxi scammers at Dammam Airport.

And nobody had any problem with me standing outside the mosque in Dammam waiting for prayer to end so I could keep shopping. But I digress.

NPH- said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Sid Farkas said:

---

Quote:

---

Decline of India

---

Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

---

It's entirely dependent on where you are. There are places that are virtually indistinguishable from modern American cities (and often much safer in terms of crime rates) and there are places that are third world **** holes. Overall it's definitely beneath western standards of living, but a lot of places are much nicer than Americans envision.

---

India has a per capita GDP of around $3K. Per year, not per month. We've got plenty of problems here, especially in our 'inner cities' (AKA Dem plantations) but nothing approaching that. Folks blame things like haggling, or the impacts of Jainism (leaving suffering animals to wander about) but the root of our disconnect imho with Indians in general is that incredible poverty level that is common there.

I have never been there, won't ever go, but I think when folks disparage Indians here for haggling etc. they miss part of the impact of their cultural/ethnographic/economic background.

Indian kids around north Texas have a generally visceral hatred of their trips back to India with family. To them, it's insulting to see how horrible/miserable India is. I know folks won't agree with me (this isn't a popularity post) but I think it will take time for this to evolve, though I think we should also cut back on Indian migration here.

---

I'm surprised to hear it's that high. About 2 years back we went for a wedding and were told that over half of the population (let's say 800million people) live on less than $1,500/year. That's right, a year. Destitute does not truly begin to explain how bad a lot of the population lives over there. I'm not going to claim that I can even begin to fully understand all the angles, politics or cultural implications of the people of India, but from my impression there still very much exists a caste/class system over there. You are either rich or you are poor. There is literally no in between. The people were so incredibly kind and treated us like royalty while we were there, but the American mind truly cannot begin to fully fathom the wealth & standard of living disparity between our two countries. During our stay, I tipped a worker 1,000 rupies for carrying our bag to our room (and it was a VERY long way up multiple flights of stairs), but the man burst into tears when he received it as he had not seen that much income in over a year we were told. It was maybe $15 U.S., but it apparently was life changing money for this individual. From then on I could not open a door, pull out a chair, open a window, etc. without someone running to do it for me. After a week of being at our event, we were leaving in a taxi, and probably 20 men rushed our car when we were leaving as we were known as "big tippers".

---

I should correct, "MOST of the people were so incredibly kind and treated us like royalty while we were there". That does not include the literal human trafficking scare that we personally avoided and the police shakedown for money on the highway that we directly experienced. But those are stories for another day.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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When did the British leave? That's when the decline started

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You are wrong.


India (the region) was the richest regioneven until 1700AD when it accounted for 25% of world's GDP. From 1000AD it was under Muslim occupation and even then it was doing well. The Europeans (Brits, Dutch, French etc) took over then and looted the country even more and brought it to about 2% of world's GDP. Sure, they built railways but it was to transport their own loot.

You cannot break a country for 1000 years, change the culture beyond repair and expect it to be put back together in just 80 years. Even the US won't go back from 30+ years of looting by US corporations with outsourcing.

I won't call your post racist, but it does come close (in addition to being ignorant).

HollywoodBQ said:

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With the idea that AI is going to replace all these workers in India doing menial tasks, let me ask you this...

For outsourcers like HCL, Infosys, etc., how are they going to bill hours for AI?

Those companies aren't looking to create operational efficiencies for their customers. Kaizen is Japanese word, not Hindi.

The outsourcers are simply looking to bill hours for warm bodies at a lower price.

TCS employs more than 600,000 people. Certainly the vast majority of those folks are probably useless. But, they can bill hours.

Another layer here is what I'll call obfuscation and creating friction. The outsourcers need that.

I'm currently doing business with a well known, household name, American brand. This company has one American person based in the USA and they use 3 different outsourcers for various IT infrastructure components - think Network, Cloud, Systems Administration. It takes 15 Indians on a call to get anything done. This could all be accomplished by 3 Americans but... bill rates. Nobody is looking at efficiency or productivity.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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You are absolutely right.

Here in America we like to laugh at other countries and call them stupid. But all the while they are eating our lunch. India is eating our lunch for the past 30 years. Our kids are unemployed while their kids get 15% raises.

Lots of clueless people in America drunk with stories of 50s America.

nortex97 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Quote:

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Decline of India

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Anyone here actually been to India? There's not much room left to fall.

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It's entirely dependent on where you are. There are places that are virtually indistinguishable from modern American cities (and often much safer in terms of crime rates) and there are places that are third world **** holes. Overall it's definitely beneath western standards of living, but a lot of places are much nicer than Americans envision.

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India has a per capita GDP of around $3K. Per year, not per month. We've got plenty of problems here, especially in our 'inner cities' (AKA Dem plantations) but nothing approaching that. Folks blame things like haggling, or the impacts of Jainism (leaving suffering animals to wander about) but the root of our disconnect imho with Indians in general is that incredible poverty level that is common there.

I have never been there, won't ever go, but I think when folks disparage Indians here for haggling etc. they miss part of the impact of their cultural/ethnographic/economic background.

Indian kids around north Texas have a generally visceral hatred of their trips back to India with family. To them, it's insulting to see how horrible/miserable India is. I know folks won't agree with me (this isn't a popularity post) but I think it will take time for this to evolve, though I think we should also cut back on Indian migration here.

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When I was a kid in Saudi Arabia, the Indian kids resented their summer trips home back then too.

I also resented them because they always brought lice back to school. And then we had to endure all the lice treatments. Fun times.

When I go to most countries, I pull $300 USD equivalent in local currency before I leave the airport.

In India they will not give you more than $60 USD worth of local currency.

And good luck trying to break a 2000 Rs bank note (about $30 USD).