A&M economist: Food Prices about to explode

22,013 Views | 233 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Mr.Milkshake
Sq 17
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FCBlitz said:

Aggie Apotheosis said:

I hope y'all had productive gardens this year and have begun your canning.


"The first wave of grocery-price increases will likely hit this winter. Roberson predicted produce prices could rise 50% to 100% by early next year as inventories clear and new contracts kick in. And unlike past decades, when Washington would quietly ease border enforcement to keep fields staffed, today's political environment suggests no such check.

'This is like when you see a flood coming, the tsunami is coming in, and the water's gone up two inches,' Robertson warned.

The reason for the labor shortage is American-born workers simply do not want to do manual work at the wages typically offered to foreign-born, undocumented workers, Robertson said. Undocumented workers are used to getting paid around $18 an hour to pick strawberriesthe type of wage American citizens can get working at an ice cream shop."

Forbes: Get Ready

Meanwhile:


Deport those who work in your fields and meat processing plants


Again: undocumented workers are net assets for the U.S. economy.










This with every other prediction will not age well.



He is not entirely wrong if you have a lucrative Ag operation that relies on illegal aliens to turn a profit that those aliens are net asset

The problem is making them ALL go back and starting over from their country of origin was never a realistic option.
Trump doing what was required to secure the border was necessary and extremely positive for the US.
On the campaign trail he made two promises
1) We will round up of the worst of the worst and deport them first
&
2) They all have to go back
Trump should have decided to focus on campaign promise one
HTownAg98
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BQ_90 said:

HTownAg98 said:

Allowing imports from Mexico will help as well, but it's going to take a long time to get cattle numbers up to a point that we see a sustained drop in prices. It's going to take years, not months. The price drops this weekend were because of Labor Day weekend sales. I wouldn't expect them to stay there very long.

you can forget about any cattle coming in from Mexico right now. The screw worm issue is very serious and could really have a negative impact on the cattle industry in Texas and throughout the SW until they can beat it back.

Yes, I just saw that they banned imports again. Thankfully the people in charge seem to be taking it seriously.
BusterAg
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CDUB98 said:

Quote:

4. With high cattle prices, people are selling instead of holding onto replacement females, which exacerbates the problem of low cattle numbers.

This one I don't get. It's short term thinking. What is a rancher going to breed if he/she does not have a bunch of females ready to rock?


Many of these guys are likely underwater after a few tough years of higher costs and drought. Sometimes the right business move is the only one that let's you stay in business.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
Roparzh
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I call, BS. Undocumented workers can come back. Trick is they have to do it legally. They don't have to stay here. And, they can be paid what they were paid when they were illegal.
Sq 17
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HTownAg98 said:

CDUB98 said:

Quote:

4. With high cattle prices, people are selling instead of holding onto replacement females, which exacerbates the problem of low cattle numbers.

This one I don't get. It's short term thinking. What is a rancher going to breed if he/she does not have a bunch of females ready to rock?

It's mostly your hobby ranchers and "ag exempt" cattle raisers cashing out. There's a lot of them.


It's not short sighted to sell the female calves into the food supply if you are also selling your " hobby ranch " lots of 80 year olds moving to town and are cashing out of their hobby ranches, The new hobby ranchers seem to be trying to earn an ag exemption by cutting hay
Hay is going to be one of the few things that will be going down in price at least in this part of Texas
Hot Corner
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It is not like the 55 million in the country on Visas and the 20-30 million illegals do not eat while they are here.
BQ_90
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CDUB98 said:

Quote:

4. With high cattle prices, people are selling instead of holding onto replacement females, which exacerbates the problem of low cattle numbers.

This one I don't get. It's short term thinking. What is a rancher going to breed if he/she does not have a bunch of females ready to rock?

this happens in every cattle market cycle. you hope to keep your females producing as long as you can and delay buying replacements until the market cycles down. Also you might see producers buy replacements instead of growing their own due to the time it takes to get a animal from calf to producing cow.

You'll also see some pure breed operations completely sell out. Its the market. Sell out at the top, buy back when the prices drop.
Who?mikejones!
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Sq 17 said:

You put it in the form of a question I guess I should have realized it was rhetorical


That's true. I did.

What a bad deal. Paying illegal 2.5x thr minimum wage to be here illegally picking crops seems like a bad deal for America. If we're going to exploit people, we should exploit them (call down people, its a joke).

Seems like a big money laundering scheme.

1. Citizens pay taxes
2. Farmers get massive subsidies
3. Large chunk of subsidies pay an average 18/hr to illegals
4. Illegals send back a majority of money to their home country
5. More illegals come for the high pay

And the cycle goes on

samurai_science
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Sq 17 said:

FCBlitz said:

Aggie Apotheosis said:

I hope y'all had productive gardens this year and have begun your canning.


"The first wave of grocery-price increases will likely hit this winter. Roberson predicted produce prices could rise 50% to 100% by early next year as inventories clear and new contracts kick in. And unlike past decades, when Washington would quietly ease border enforcement to keep fields staffed, today's political environment suggests no such check.

'This is like when you see a flood coming, the tsunami is coming in, and the water's gone up two inches,' Robertson warned.

The reason for the labor shortage is American-born workers simply do not want to do manual work at the wages typically offered to foreign-born, undocumented workers, Robertson said. Undocumented workers are used to getting paid around $18 an hour to pick strawberriesthe type of wage American citizens can get working at an ice cream shop."

Forbes: Get Ready

Meanwhile:


Deport those who work in your fields and meat processing plants


Again: undocumented workers are net assets for the U.S. economy.










This with every other prediction will not age well.



He is not entirely wrong if you have a lucrative Ag operation that relies on illegal aliens to turn a profit that those aliens are net asset

The problem is making them ALL go back and starting over from their country of origin was never a realistic option.
Trump doing what was required to secure the border was necessary and extremely positive for the US.
On the campaign trail he made two promises
1) We will round up of the worst of the worst and deport them first
&
2) They all have to go back
Trump should have decided to focus on campaign promise one



AG workers are not being targeted
flown-the-coop
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Liberals love their slave labor


Just occurred to me that the ol term Jefferson Democrats refers to Jefferson Davis and not just Thomas Jefferson.

Party of slavery never changes its stripes, just its coloreds.
richardag
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Heineken-Ashi said:

Aggie Apotheosis said:

Pizza said:



Democrats are the types to identify a problem in advance, and instead of providing solutions they will frame the cause as something brought about by those they see as political enemies.



Good Lord ... Trump is continually blaming Biden for everything that goes wrong. Do I need to produce examples?

Yellow is Biden, Purple is Trump. There's a reason the worst president of all time continues to get blamed for the worst inflation since the second worst president of all time in the 70's. Your attempt at gaslighting as if we didnt all just live through this is sad and pathetic.


Thanks for the information. Graphic representation is a special form of communication.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
richardag
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CDUB98 said:

The lack of critical thinking skills among our resident progressives is impressive. Nothing but emotional **** throwing.

Meanwhile, someone posts charts and facts depicting reality and they are ignored.
What the leftists ignore is at the end of President Trump's 1st term inflation was at ~1.7% - 2.3%, unemployment was falling, his Administration was opposed to the states lockdowns, the stock market was @ all time highs.
Yet the leftists blame President Trump for the disaster that the idiot President Biden and his corrupt Administration perpetrated on America.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
JAW3336
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In Round Rock I bought 2 4lb packs for $15 each.
Attack life, It's going to kill you anyway!
shiftyandquick
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84AGEC said:

Beef. It's supply and demand. Cattle numbers are at a historic low. Demand is staying strong.
Imports are down. Boarder with Mexico is closed for imports due to screw worm. Typical number is 1.5 million and this year looks like less than 500 thousand


LOL. Don't mention the huge tariff on Brazilian beef.
Sq 17
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That's definitely part of it and I mentioned it in a prior post
Sq 17
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Technically nobody is being targeted enforcement is haphazard.

The meat packers that got rounded up earlier this summer might not have been targeted but they are in custody

Also enforcement seems to be more focused in blue states. I am certain Home Depot's in Florida are as full of illegal day laborers as the ones in LA
84AGEC
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Not worth mentioning
El Gallo Blanco
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Need to know if he is a liberal or CM with TDS or not before I can trust him in the slightest. A lot of times you can tell with almost absolute certainty by the picture...I get the sense this guy hates Trump and his immigration policy and it is clouding his judgement, but he doesn;t look like a super flaming liberal to me. More like a "lincoln project republican", if anything.

El Gallo Blanco
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MemphisAg1 said:

Aggie Apotheosis said:

Again: undocumented workers are net assets for the U.S. economy.

Get in line and come in the country legally, and there's plenty of work waiting for you.

All the US has to do to offset the labor shortage is increase the legal immigration target.

The border still needs to be secure, and only those authorized to enter should be admitted.

We can have secure borders, legal immigration, and adequate labor to work the fields.

It's not hard.

The Dems instead favor a lawless approach and insecure border.

This. I actually believe we NEED immigrants. But we need to be screening for good Christ loving young nuclear families who hate all of the perverted and democnic woke sh**, and that's pretty much it.
Heineken-Ashi
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shiftyandquick said:

84AGEC said:

Beef. It's supply and demand. Cattle numbers are at a historic low. Demand is staying strong.
Imports are down. Boarder with Mexico is closed for imports due to screw worm. Typical number is 1.5 million and this year looks like less than 500 thousand


LOL. Don't mention the huge tariff on Brazilian beef.

Go ahead and check what was happening to beef prices before that was even hinted at.

Let me know if you are incapable of finding it on your own.
Heineken-Ashi
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El Gallo Blanco said:

Need to know if he is a liberal or CM with TDS or not before I can trust him in the slightest. A lot of times you can tell with almost absolute certainty by the picture...I get the sense this guy hates Trump and his immigration policy and it is clouding his judgement, but he doesn;t look like a super flaming liberal to me. More like a "lincoln project republican", if anything.



Don't know anything about him personally. But his research track record suggests significant involvement with things like gender wage gap and labor in developing countries.
El Gallo Blanco
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Heineken-Ashi said:

El Gallo Blanco said:

Need to know if he is a liberal or CM with TDS or not before I can trust him in the slightest. A lot of times you can tell with almost absolute certainty by the picture...I get the sense this guy hates Trump and his immigration policy and it is clouding his judgement, but he doesn;t look like a super flaming liberal to me. More like a "lincoln project republican", if anything.



Don't know anything about him personally. But his research track record suggests significant involvement with things like gender wage gap and labor in developing countries.

Ah ok, a brainwashed idiot. Probably wanted me locked up and separated from my child for not getting the vax, because his would not magically work unless I got mine. 99% chance he also fully believed the OMG RUSSIA! hoax.
wtmartinaggie
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I've spent over 30 years in specialty agriculture. I currently own a sales consultancy for growers, am the director of bizdev for a fresh food-focused 3pl, and farm 25 acres of squash/cucumbers the east coast. I think the assessment is pretty spot on.

1) Cost of Inputs - labor, fertilizer, plastic/drip tape, etc. have all increased substantially. Biggest increase is in labor. We've gone from minimum wage to above $20/hr, and that's if you can get workers. H2A/B is an option, but the costs are still north of $20/hr. and you have to have housing assets to make that work. Labor contractors cost about the same but are much less reliable than they used to be. They just won't show up sometimes and when you're in harvest, that's a problem.

2) Market Prices - COVID changed the retail buyer's mindset. Markets used to have a pretty high upside. You'd lose on a few years, break even on a few, and win big on a couple to make it all work out. The win big years have been driven out of the system because retailers will just stop buying and be short to avoid paying higher prices. If strawberries are high, they'll market the hell out of raspberries or blueberries, whatever is cheap. They no longer participate in the market when availability is low and prices are elevated. Before COVID, when prices were high you were choosing who to cover. Nowadays I've had folks call me in extremely short markets with no one to sell to. It's important to note that in produce when prices are high, quality is generally lower because the low availability is caused by poor growing conditions.

3) Marketing Companies/Shippers - These companies have thrived off living in the middle of the supply chain by bringing a network of smaller/regional growers together to build a competitive program. They have historically carried the receivables so growers can get paid quickly to pay labor and notes. Those days are over. PACA payment terms aren't enforced because they can't be, there isn't enough money in the system to do so. Given consolidation in the wholesaler, processor, retail and distributor space there's less competition in the market and shippers have to woo the buyer to stay in good graces. If not, they'll drop you and you're stuck with a pile with nowhere to send it (which drives prices down as they drop their pants on price to avoid the loss). That enables buyers to arbitrarily short pay invoices or demand credits they never would have gotten before.

4) Market Pricing - Market pricing has not increased in line with costs. It's largely been a result of desperation and competition as marketers struggle for orders and contracts. Marketers/shippers take a fee and pass returns minus commissions to the grower. Increased demand for value added services such as overwrapping, bagging, etc. have added cost to the system the grower absorbs.

The biggest issue is a debt balloon that's about to pop. More and more growers are in receivership every season hoping for a good market and many of them are at the end of that rope. To make it worse, 90% that aren't in financial trouble are aging and their kids have no interest in getting into farming. Smaller marketers have lost supply due to a shrinking grower network and poor growing conditions, which has resulted in them getting behind on their payments. Banks are now having to decide whether to extend a loan they'd never think of extending before because if they don't prop up one actor in the system it will take down everyone else in the process.

It's a ticking time bomb. I'm contemplating repurposing our farmland to run cattle as we speak for these very reasons. It just seems like a safer way to put our land and money to work based on how farming is trending. It's nearly impossible for the smaller grower to make money in the farming game anymore, and the cost of startup makes it nearly impossible for someone new to get in.
TommyBrady
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Bought 4.5 pounds of 80/20 beef today at HEB for 4.98 a pound. Texas sized packs.
Queso1
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TommyBrady said:

Bought 4.5 pounds of 80/20 beef today at HEB for 4.98 a pound. Texas sized packs.


Honestly, I have no idea whether that is good or bad.
TommyBrady
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Queso1 said:

TommyBrady said:

Bought 4.5 pounds of 80/20 beef today at HEB for 4.98 a pound. Texas sized packs.


Honestly, I have no idea whether that is good or bad.


Its alright. Bought 3 pounds at Brookshires for 3.99 a pound but it was on sale.
captkirk
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Queso1 said:

TommyBrady said:

Bought 4.5 pounds of 80/20 beef today at HEB for 4.98 a pound. Texas sized packs.


Honestly, I have no idea whether that is good or bad.

Then why post on this thread?
Captain Pablo
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Queso1 said:

TommyBrady said:

Bought 4.5 pounds of 80/20 beef today at HEB for 4.98 a pound. Texas sized packs.


Honestly, I have no idea whether that is good or bad.


It's what it's been for several years

Therefore, I assume the point of his post is that the price of ground beef at his H-E-B has not gone up
captkirk
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Everything this guy has ever published is about labor in foreign developing countries. Why does anyone care what he thinks?
Queso1
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captkirk said:

Everything this guy has ever published is about labor in foreign developing countries. Why does anyone care what he thinks?


I don't need a degree to understand that 38T in debt and printing money is going to cause runaway inflation. But I'm starting to realize it's a feature not a bug.
HTownAg98
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Sq 17 said:

If pork gets cheap enough beef will go down

Pork isn't getting cheaper, it's just growing at a slower rate than beef.

TA-OP
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I got lucky at H-E-B two weeks. 8/20 has just shifted to around $6.49. They had a stack of 12 two-pound packs mislabeled for $3.99. I only bought half of them though because of limited freezer space.
84AGEC
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When the consumer decides beef is too expensive and switches to cheaper protein then beef will drop.
No Spin Ag
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84AGEC said:

When the consumer decides beef is too expensive and switches to cheaper protein then beef will drop.



So beef is only expensive because cattle folk want to milk the American consumer? I mean, that's capitalism 101, but just checking if that applies to them too.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Heineken-Ashi
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wtmartinaggie said:

I've spent over 30 years in specialty agriculture. I currently own a sales consultancy for growers, am the director of bizdev for a fresh food-focused 3pl, and farm 25 acres of squash/cucumbers the east coast. I think the assessment is pretty spot on.

1) Cost of Inputs - labor, fertilizer, plastic/drip tape, etc. have all increased substantially. Biggest increase is in labor. We've gone from minimum wage to above $20/hr, and that's if you can get workers. H2A/B is an option, but the costs are still north of $20/hr. and you have to have housing assets to make that work. Labor contractors cost about the same but are much less reliable than they used to be. They just won't show up sometimes and when you're in harvest, that's a problem.

2) Market Prices - COVID changed the retail buyer's mindset. Markets used to have a pretty high upside. You'd lose on a few years, break even on a few, and win big on a couple to make it all work out. The win big years have been driven out of the system because retailers will just stop buying and be short to avoid paying higher prices. If strawberries are high, they'll market the hell out of raspberries or blueberries, whatever is cheap. They no longer participate in the market when availability is low and prices are elevated. Before COVID, when prices were high you were choosing who to cover. Nowadays I've had folks call me in extremely short markets with no one to sell to. It's important to note that in produce when prices are high, quality is generally lower because the low availability is caused by poor growing conditions.

3) Marketing Companies/Shippers - These companies have thrived off living in the middle of the supply chain by bringing a network of smaller/regional growers together to build a competitive program. They have historically carried the receivables so growers can get paid quickly to pay labor and notes. Those days are over. PACA payment terms aren't enforced because they can't be, there isn't enough money in the system to do so. Given consolidation in the wholesaler, processor, retail and distributor space there's less competition in the market and shippers have to woo the buyer to stay in good graces. If not, they'll drop you and you're stuck with a pile with nowhere to send it (which drives prices down as they drop their pants on price to avoid the loss). That enables buyers to arbitrarily short pay invoices or demand credits they never would have gotten before.

4) Market Pricing - Market pricing has not increased in line with costs. It's largely been a result of desperation and competition as marketers struggle for orders and contracts. Marketers/shippers take a fee and pass returns minus commissions to the grower. Increased demand for value added services such as overwrapping, bagging, etc. have added cost to the system the grower absorbs.

The biggest issue is a debt balloon that's about to pop. More and more growers are in receivership every season hoping for a good market and many of them are at the end of that rope. To make it worse, 90% that aren't in financial trouble are aging and their kids have no interest in getting into farming. Smaller marketers have lost supply due to a shrinking grower network and poor growing conditions, which has resulted in them getting behind on their payments. Banks are now having to decide whether to extend a loan they'd never think of extending before because if they don't prop up one actor in the system it will take down everyone else in the process.

It's a ticking time bomb. I'm contemplating repurposing our farmland to run cattle as we speak for these very reasons. It just seems like a safer way to put our land and money to work based on how farming is trending. It's nearly impossible for the smaller grower to make money in the farming game anymore, and the cost of startup makes it nearly impossible for someone new to get in.

News for you - the consumer is in a worse debt balloon. A mythical explosion in prices will be met swiftly with tanking demand.
 
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