On the subject of cost, my son does four classes at the coop I talked about earlier. The cost is a total of $220/month plus an enrollment fee for the year, which is something like $100. Books and some class fees probably total $200 a year.

Part of the cost control is partnering with a local church. They don't use their classrooms during the day on weekdays, so it's a great space at low cost.

His other subjects are pure homeschool, and the time investment is the real cost. It requires sacrifice on our part, but the advantages are huge. I can identify problems right away, switch curricula or resources anytime I want, and I know exactly what he is studying and how he is doing. The biggest advantage of all is that is I can tailor it to his needs, interests, strengths, and weaknesses.

akm91 said:

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sam callahan said:

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I present to you the $400,000,000 stadium that Beaumont United plays in (operating and maintenance costs not included).



Their latest test scores show 22% proficiency at reading and 6% at math.

That's on reading and math tests that were probably easy for 8th graders in the 1950s.

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I believe it was around $50M to build, not $400M

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In 2014 and 2015, multiple Beaumont ISD employees were indicted and eventually convicted of Federal charges for theft. And people being paid but never actually working.
At one time the Superintendent was in trouble for owning 3 homes in Texas and claiming a homestead exemption on all 3. Not sure if ever indicted.
All of those indicted and convicted had one thing in common.

Those involved in the investigation were amazed at the brazen theft by the administrators and found numerous companies suspected of additional theft that were never proven. Service providers like hvac and pest control and consumable supplies purchases which did not add up. It was like people were employed to figure out ways to steal school tax dollars.

For those who think private schools and competition with private schools or charters is the answer, I will tell you my two experiences. First, I went to an affordable private school for seventh and eighth grades. It still wasn't cheap. And it didn't have nearly as many of the amenities and special programs that the local public school had. We were okay with it, but a lot of parents wouldn't have been. And I don't think they had any programs for special education.

Second, my sister got mad at her local public school for telling her that her daughter wasn't a perfect little angel (they were right), and sent her daughter to some fly-by-night private school. My niece graduated, but I think she was really at a middle school level of education, at best. If we get rid of public education, get ready for a bunch of schools designed to maximize profits, education be damned.

sam callahan said:

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I present to you the $400,000,000 stadium that Beaumont United plays in (operating and maintenance costs not included).



Their latest test scores show 22% proficiency at reading and 6% at math.

That's on reading and math tests that were probably easy for 8th graders in the 1950s.

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One too many zeros. 40M.

Mas89 said:

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akm91 said:

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sam callahan said:

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I present to you the $400,000,000 stadium that Beaumont United plays in (operating and maintenance costs not included).



Their latest test scores show 22% proficiency at reading and 6% at math.

That's on reading and math tests that were probably easy for 8th graders in the 1950s.

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I believe it was around $50M to build, not $400M

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In 2014 and 2015, multiple Beaumont ISD employees were indicted and eventually convicted of Federal charges for theft. And people being paid but never actually working.
At one time the Superintendent was in trouble for owning 3 homes in Texas and claiming a homestead exemption on all 3. Not sure if ever indicted.
All of those indicted and convicted had one thing in common.

Those involved in the investigation were amazed at the brazen theft by the administrators and found numerous companies suspected of additional theft that were never proven. Service providers like hvac and pest control and consumable supplies purchases which did not add up. It was like people were employed to figure out ways to steal school tax dollars.

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This is the biggest problem that lefties ignore.

You cannot root out political corruption with politics. Ever. You can reduce it, but as long as people have a layer of politics between money and consequences, there will be misuse. And in the worst cases it's corruption at the scale of behemoth. It's the USAID problem of entrenched payouts running amok.

There's too much government in damn near anything but education is hemorrhaging cash and the cry is always "more money". Schools are broken and they need to be held dramatically and radically to account. The only way that happens is to turn off the spigot.

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If we get rid of public education, get ready for a bunch of schools designed to maximize profits, education be damned.

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Oh no! There may be some bad schools? Thank goodness all our schools are so great now!

At least with private schools consumers have the option to change. And while some will chase quick bucks and some parents will chase cheap low quality options, some will chase excellence and there will be more options for that.

I'd be in favor of anyone that had an education degree or ever taught being ineligible for administration. They have no real world experience and for some reason end up running multiple million dollar enterprises.

Teachers union want no accountability on the teachers .

MasonB said:

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On the subject of cost, my son does four classes at the coop I talked about earlier. The cost is a total of $220/month plus an enrollment fee for the year, which is something like $100. Books and some class fees probably total $200 a year.

Part of the cost control is partnering with a local church. They don't use their classrooms during the day on weekdays, so it's a great space at low cost.

His other subjects are pure homeschool, and the time investment is the real cost. It requires sacrifice on our part, but the advantages are huge. I can identify problems right away, switch curricula or resources anytime I want, and I know exactly what he is studying and how he is doing. The biggest advantage of all is that is I can tailor it to his needs, interests, strengths, and weaknesses.

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As a prof, on average, home schooled student were stronger than public schooled in my experience. Keep it up! Of course this is ancedotal.

The few reatively low number of homeschooled is not a ringing endorsement for how many parents of modest means value education "better" than what they get in public schools now, though.

Decay said:

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Mas89 said:

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akm91 said:

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sam callahan said:

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I present to you the $400,000,000 stadium that Beaumont United plays in (operating and maintenance costs not included).



Their latest test scores show 22% proficiency at reading and 6% at math.

That's on reading and math tests that were probably easy for 8th graders in the 1950s.

---

I believe it was around $50M to build, not $400M

---

In 2014 and 2015, multiple Beaumont ISD employees were indicted and eventually convicted of Federal charges for theft. And people being paid but never actually working.
At one time the Superintendent was in trouble for owning 3 homes in Texas and claiming a homestead exemption on all 3. Not sure if ever indicted.
All of those indicted and convicted had one thing in common.

Those involved in the investigation were amazed at the brazen theft by the administrators and found numerous companies suspected of additional theft that were never proven. Service providers like hvac and pest control and consumable supplies purchases which did not add up. It was like people were employed to figure out ways to steal school tax dollars.

---

This is the biggest problem that lefties ignore.

You cannot root out political corruption with politics. Ever. You can reduce it, but as long as people have a layer of politics between money and consequences, there will be misuse. And in the worst cases it's corruption at the scale of behemoth. It's the USAID problem of entrenched payouts running amok.

There's too much government in damn near anything but education is hemorrhaging cash and the cry is always "more money". Schools are broken and they need to be held dramatically and radically to account. The only way that happens is to turn off the spigot.

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And replace it with what? Nothing? Giving each parent 75% of the average cost of a student at the beginning of the year? Or nothing? What do we do about special needs? Are we going to create a new police system to see how parents are spending the money they get?

And I agree with you, any system that supports an educational hierarchy is going to be inefficient and subject to abuse.

But just ike I was hasseling Sam, I don't see a good way to get rid of most of the structure we have now. And as I said in my OP, the problem is really owned by taxpayers and parents, imo. So not only do we need to come up with a plan, it has to be popular and withstand legal scrutiny.

In any case, I'm bailing out of this thread. take care,

Ask the Barbers Hill school district how. They seem to be doing the best job. Academically and Athletics.

leftinright said:

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aTmAg said:

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leftinright said:

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aTmAg said:

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leftinright said:

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aTmAg said:

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zooguy96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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zooguy96 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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This is up there with the dumbest posts on this thread.
College is a completely different environment than high school. You can get away with classes of 300+ students primarily because of maturity, but there's a whole host of other reasons.

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Yeah, that person had obviously never been in a classroom full of students who don't want to to be there. Larger class size…..lolololol.

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LOL.. you think that a smaller class size with crappier teachers would make them want to be there? No wonder our schools are failing, you guys have no idea what the hell you are doing.

You know how you make them want to be there? By ACTUALLY PUNISHING THEM for not doing their work and booting them out of school if they are disruptive. When I was in elementary school, I didn't go to recess if I didn't finish my morning work, and I had to stay after school each day that I didn't get my work done for the day. Guess what? Students busted their asses to get their work done by the time school was out. Amazing how that works!

And if the student was disruptive? They were GONE. For good. So guess what? Parents made damn sure their kids were not disruptive. Weird how that works too!

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Except none of that happens. Students don't get punished for not doing work. A lot of schools are moving to giving them a 50. Students aren't booted for being disruptive. There are only so many spots at the alternative school, and once they are filled, you are stuck with the students. Schools don't want to get rid of students because of $$$. So all of the things you are proposing don't actually happen in real situations. It would be nice if they did, but they don't.

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And guess what? If all schools were privatized, then this would no longer be the case. Students would get punished and booted. Why? Because no paying customer would tolerate their kids getting a crappy education because some brat is disrupting the class. Schools would lose more money than gain by keeping these idiots around.

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Except those kids in the private school won't get kicked out because the parents are paying for it.

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Totally wrong. They DO get kicked out.

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1 kid from a wealthy family can ruin it for everyone else. The school is going to do what is best for their bottom line, so the priority is the higher paying families, and donations, not unlike how university is treated.

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Private schools today are competing for high level clients. That would NOT be the case if all public schools were replaced with private schools. Now suddenly, new schools would pop up (in probably a lot of the same buildings) trying to compete on price and quality. And a rich customer would have about as much say over other customers as a rich guy buying a Ford pickup truck has over other Ford customers (basically none).

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The other issue with private school, how many of you would have been able to have go to one? Were your parents so well off that you would have been able to go? Savings in property tax isn't that much. Houston has like $10k / yr in property taxes in the area I lived in. That doesn't go to the shool.

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You are talking about current schools. Who's customers are people who can afford to pay all of these taxes AND pay for tuition on top. That would not be the case if public schools were replaced by private schools. Those schools would cost less than public schools today and provide a much better education.

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School of choice is a good idea except, Southlake Carroll, Allen, Highland Park can't take all the kids outside the area, creating the issues we see today are problems.

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Wherever there is high demand, providers will come.

And the rest of your post is nonsense that is not worth my time.

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Private school would not be cheaper than public education for the families today.

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Hilarous claim. In EVERY area that government competes against the private sector, the private sector is not only vastly superior, but is cheaper too. Education would be on different.

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Of those $10k property tax, only about $1000 is to the school, maybe $2000. How much is private school tuition?

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You are comparing tuition TODAY that is geared towards the wealthy. They aren't competing against public schools for low cost education, since public education is "free". Your question is like asking "How much is a super yacht?" when comparing the cost of transporting a single soldier by transport ship to Jeff Bezos sailing to Europe on on his yacht. They aren't comparing the same thing.

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Also, if we remove public school access, then we are accepting the fact that kids will never have an opportunity to go further in life because of their bad luck to poor parents, or not even poor, just not quite able to afford private school.

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Those students (and more) are more screwed with our current public system. That's why they are basically a permanent under class. Thanks to the policies you support.

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Another current example for private school costs is, child care costs now. That is a great look at what private shool would look like. Currrently, it is $380 per week for child care, who is trying to compete for the general client as you put it. It is a smaller center, so I could go to the cheaper child care center for $200 per week, and get less quality of education but it is more affordable, but still expensive.

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BTW, this is a result of other leftist policies that push the cost of living so high that both parents have to work. If we got rid of welfare, SS, and all the other ridiculous entitlement spending, then everything would be cheap again, and mothers could stay home and watch their kids for cheap.

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In only privatization you so wish to have, where does the affordability come in? I get options, but quality will vary wildy and maybe I don't get a choice regardless, because the nicer place requires applications and waiting list.

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Are there waiting lists for grocery stores? For Ford Escorts? No? You know why? Because the private sector would rush in to fill the void.

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how does it become better? Building costs aren't going to be funded by bonds in this scenario, so cheaper buildings, more shortcuts. Security won't be a priority. Things get sacrificed for "private quality" education, who will have to cater to the money.

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LOL.. You ever compare a FedEx store to the Post Office? A doctors office to the VA? The notion that the private sector would "sacrifice" important things over public is LAUGHABLE. It is exactly the opposite. Unlike the public sector, they would cut things that DON'T MATTER. Rather than build cathedrals, they would build steel buildings. Rather than build football stadiums they would buy better curriculum.

It's impressive how oblivious you are to the world around you.

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Are you comparing the post office as being poorly run when the Rs are the ones hamstringing it because it can actually make money?

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The USPS has lost money nearly every year since 2006. What the hell are you even talking about?

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Is FedEx and the post office supposed to educate 1000s of students in their tiny little store front? Are there 5 FedEx locations in a 5 square mile area? Is FedEx in their own physical building or shared?

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I was comparing FedEx to the USPS. Not FexEx to the education system. That was obvious. Are you intentionally obtuse or really unable think beyond the 5th grade? What's next, you going to ask "did FedEx win WW2 like the US military?"

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Better teaching curriculum? Or the one that offers the best deal? Being in projects in construction and processes companies are going the cheapest route in the chase of profits. What is the profit in private schools?

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The one that gives consumers the best results for the least cost. The only way to profit is to satisfy MANY customers. That is why the private sector beats the pants out of the government in everything that both endeavor.

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And I agree, the dumb republicans need to stop with "my footbah" voting on bonds and actually care about creating a good community for their kids.

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LOL.. Nobody has destroyed communities more than the democratic party. Everywhere they are in control the city is in ruin.

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But no yall just blame the education system as the problem and ignoring that the leadership (Abbott (r), Perry (r), and bush (r)) were the last three republican governors and its only getting worse in your eyes. So…I'm not saying correlation is causation but trends can be seen.

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Dude.. just look at Detroit, Chigago, Baltimore, etc. Democrat run cities/states are far worse. But no politician could make public education GOOD. It's destined to fail just like if government decided to take over farming. Your boy Mao tried that and starved millions.

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Bush was president for 8 years and trump for four. Congress was r during Obama, so where did the failing education come from?

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The president has almost no control over schools compared local officials. Even with a republican governor, local districts are still riddled and run by idiotic leftists. Especially in cities where schools suck extra hard. Places run by conservatives (like my local school district) are actually pretty good despite the inefficiencies of government (but not as good as private alternatives).

And besides, there have been 3 democrat presidents since 2000. All 3 had a majority of both houses during their term. And all GOP presidents have spent money like leftists anyway. Hell Ted Kennedy sponsored NCLB. This is not about GOP/Democrat. This is about left vs right. The left of both parties has been in control of education for basically our entire lives. It's on wonder the education system has fallen apart.

All the SPED stuff and ESSA is federal law, so the feds and Congress can fix this if they wanted to. But apparently they're too busy doing nothing.

HTownAg98 said:

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All the SPED stuff and ESSA is federal law, so the feds and Congress can fix this if they wanted to. But apparently they're too busy doing nothing.

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The failure of our public education system goes beyond SPED. While the feds dropping their intrusion completely would certainly help, it would not turn public education from bad into good.