HeadGames said:

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I was on jury duty the other day, where the defendant struck a plea deal. The judge explained to us that you know it's a good deal with both sides hate it. That means they both had to give up something, not just one party. This rings true to the Ukraine Russia fiasco, no one side should be walking away thinking they just beat the world.

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Ok, I'm going to hack into your life savings. I want all of it, and you want me to leave you alone. Just give me half and we are both equally unhappy.

Just watched it for the first time. Whose idea was it to put that on live tv? Trump so he could be hero on a tv? What a s show! I want to see the huge smiles that had to be on the media faces as that devolved

gabehcoud said:

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Just watched it for the first time. Whose idea was it to put that on live tv? Trump so he could be hero on a tv? What a s show!

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First time? He does this for ALL of them, are you that uninformed?

Urban Ag said:

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45-70Ag said:

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Still not an American problem. I'm as hawkish as anyone with the right reasons and not opposed to vaporizing our enemies with nuclear weapons.

But this clown show, this isn't our fight and Europe doesn't really give a damn either.

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I feel pretty confident in saying that Europeans understand Russia probably a bit better than Americans. And no, they really don't seem too concerned do they? And the reason why is because their leaders know the most likely goal of Putin is to put a buffer zone between Russian soil and NATO and not in conquering central and western Europe, which the Russians don't have the ability to do anyway.

Those actually sharing a continent with Russia are less concerned about Russia than the war mongers on the other side of the planet. That's pretty telling. And they don't care about Ukraine either.

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How many countries in Europe? That's at least how many different understandings of Russia. And they have typically been much friendlier to the Rooskies than the US.

The oligarchs spend mass money in London, Paris and other places and they would love to see them back and for energy prices to drop with the spigots for Russia being turned back on.

Majority of Americans don't care about the Ukraine, this is a fact based on the elections and what people voted for. Exit polls show it

Gigem314 said:

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rootube said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Can you imagine Churchill or De Gaulle speaking to FDR like that?

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If our offer was a minerals deal to recoup our investment with zero weapons or security guarantees. Yes.

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Why are they entitled to guarantees when they can't guarantee us anything?

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I'm not saying we are entitled to give them anything. People are attacking Zelenskyy for rejecting a deal that gives him nothing. It seemed bizarre to me that we were even going through this charade. This was a logical outcome given the messages the US has been sending. Our government has publicly.

Blamed Ukraine for starting the war.
Called Zelenskyy the illegitimate leader of his country.
Inflated the amount of aid we have given by 4x
Falsely claimed that Europe is not contributed aid
Conceded that Ukraine will have to give up more territory
Conceded that Ukraine will never join NATO
Excluded Ukraine from negotiations for their own country
Communicated that we have no intention of providing more aid
Communicates that we will not provide security guarantees

All of this BEFORE the start of peace negotiations the Ukrainians were excluded from

Quick, can you name a single Russian concession that has been discussed?


Does any of that sound appealing to a Ukrainian fighting for his country?

samurai_science said:

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Majority of Americans don't care about the Ukraine, this is a fact based on the elections and what people voted for. Exit polls show it

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To be fair most couldn't find it on a map without the name removed

Comanche_Ag said:

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SwigAg11 said:

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AggieShanks said:

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He had a negotiation live on television to pressure Zelensky to make the deal because it means more for Trump's legacy to say he negotiated peace. Instead, Zelensky defended his country, called a buck a buck, and went home. Trump was already pulling support. He ran on that, so, nothing changed. Only thing it showed us was that Trump really isn't this strongman that can force peace. He's like any other president. A leader of one country with waning influence abroad.

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Apparently if you watch the entire discussion, Trump kept reiterating that the US was willing to continue military aid.

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was…

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) February 28, 2025

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Quote:

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I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context. When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument. In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal. The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument. I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

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I watched the whole thing too. This is a pretty good summary - the whole thing started to go sideways when Trump admonished Zelenskyy that he shouldn't say mean things about Vladimir Putin.

samurai_science said:

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Majority of Americans don't care about the Ukraine, this is a fact based on the elections and what people voted for. Exit polls show it

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Majority of Americans can't name who the VP is. A good number probably don't know who the president is or how many States we have.

It's not that Ukraine would get nothing from the deal. If you watch/listen the full press conference, Trump is saying the US is willing to continue military aid in exchange for the mineral rights as a way to make up for the previous loans of aid (that Zelensky is claiming was a gift).

GeorgiAg said:

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Elect a clown, expect a circus.

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Clown that doesn't bent the knee…

K

Quote:

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I'm not saying we are entitled to give them anything. People are attacking Zelenskyy for rejecting a deal that gives him nothing.

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Nothing?

Right now he has nothing. With us going to the negotiating table on his behalf...he has at least some sort of leverage. But we're not going to do that for free any longer...and that's what he hates. He doesnt like that he'd be paying us, instead of us paying him (like we've done).

Without us he has zero leverage. WIth us he gains continued support, rebuilding efforts and leverage at the table with Russia. Everyone recognizes that. His own government knows it, which is why they are freaking out right now.

GeorgiAg said:

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HeadGames said:

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I was on jury duty the other day, where the defendant struck a plea deal. The judge explained to us that you know it's a good deal with both sides hate it. That means they both had to give up something, not just one party. This rings true to the Ukraine Russia fiasco, no one side should be walking away thinking they just beat the world.

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Ok, I'm going to hack into your life savings. I want all of it, and you want me to leave you alone. Just give me half and we are both equally unhappy.

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Maybe the guy you voted for in 2020 could have done something about this had he not been…withdrawing from Afghanistan, eliminating inflation, trying to jail his political enemies, etc?

GeorgiAg said:

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samurai_science said:

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Majority of Americans don't care about the Ukraine, this is a fact based on the elections and what people voted for. Exit polls show it

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Majority of Americans can't name who the VP is. A good number probably don't know who the president is or how many States we have.

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But more voted for Trump than Harris. So there's hope!

rootube said:

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Gigem314 said:

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rootube said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Can you imagine Churchill or De Gaulle speaking to FDR like that?

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If our offer was a minerals deal to recoup our investment with zero weapons or security guarantees. Yes.

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Why are they entitled to guarantees when they can't guarantee us anything?

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I'm not saying we are entitled to give them anything. People are attacking Zelenskyy for rejecting a deal that gives him nothing. It seemed bizarre to me that we were even going through this charade. This was a logical outcome given the messages the US has been sending. Our government has publicly.

Blamed Ukraine for starting the war.
Called Zelenskyy the illegitimate leader of his country.
Inflated the amount of aid we have given by 4x
Falsely claimed that Europe is not contributed aid
Conceded that Ukraine will have to give up more territory
Conceded that Ukraine will never join NATO
Excluded Ukraine from negotiations for their own country
Communicated that we have no intention of providing more aid
Communicates that we will not provide security guarantees

All of this BEFORE the start of peace negotiations the Ukrainians were excluded from

Quick, can you name a single Russian concession that has been discussed?


Does any of that sound appealing to a Ukrainian fighting for his country?

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Who could've possibly predicted this would end this way? Other than me and several others, a couple years ago of course.

rootube said:

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Gigem314 said:

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rootube said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Can you imagine Churchill or De Gaulle speaking to FDR like that?

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If our offer was a minerals deal to recoup our investment with zero weapons or security guarantees. Yes.

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Why are they entitled to guarantees when they can't guarantee us anything?

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I'm not saying we are entitled to give them anything. People are attacking Zelenskyy for rejecting a deal that gives him nothing. It seemed bizarre to me that we were even going through this charade. This was a logical outcome given the messages the US has been sending. Our government has publicly.

Blamed Ukraine for starting the war.
Called Zelenskyy the illegitimate leader of his country.
Inflated the amount of aid we have given by 4x
Falsely claimed that Europe is not contributed aid
Conceded that Ukraine will have to give up more territory
Conceded that Ukraine will never join NATO
Excluded Ukraine from negotiations for their own country
Communicated that we have no intention of providing more aid
Communicates that we will not provide security guarantees

All of this BEFORE the start of peace negotiations the Ukrainians were excluded from

Quick, can you name a single Russian concession that has been discussed?


Does any of that sound appealing to a Ukrainian fighting for his country?

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You talking about Zelensky or the people actually fighting, and dying? Because I bet the end of hostilities sounds pretty good to a whole lot of Ukrainians whose lives and loved ones' lives are actually on the line.

The main concession from Russia is obvious: they don't get what they wanted when they started this war. They don't get all the territory they wanted.

rootube said:

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Gigem314 said:

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rootube said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Can you imagine Churchill or De Gaulle speaking to FDR like that?

---

---

If our offer was a minerals deal to recoup our investment with zero weapons or security guarantees. Yes.

---

Why are they entitled to guarantees when they can't guarantee us anything?

---

I'm not saying we are entitled to give them anything. People are attacking Zelenskyy for rejecting a deal that gives him nothing. It seemed bizarre to me that we were even going through this charade. This was a logical outcome given the messages the US has been sending. Our government has publicly.

Blamed Ukraine for starting the war.
Called Zelenskyy the illegitimate leader of his country.
Inflated the amount of aid we have given by 4x
Falsely claimed that Europe is not contributed aid
Conceded that Ukraine will have to give up more territory
Conceded that Ukraine will never join NATO
Excluded Ukraine from negotiations for their own country
Communicated that we have no intention of providing more aid
Communicates that we will not provide security guarantees

All of this BEFORE the start of peace negotiations the Ukrainians were excluded from

Quick, can you name a single Russian concession that has been discussed?


Does any of that sound appealing to a Ukrainian fighting for his country?

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I think we have made it pretty clear since January where the US is headed on this deal. Today's events are not that surprising. Nationalism is here in America - Europe and the rest of our global allies (Canada) can F right off and they need to come to terms with that and plan accordingly.

Zelensky should have just offered Trump a casino and a big statue.

Trump Tower Ukraine!

Good gosh. Is that real?

How transparent can they be?

Z is a crossdressing grifting little ***** and always has been.

infinity ag said:

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The look was bad. They should have talked this through in private. Fighting in public is not a good look.

Fight all you want inside a room.

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No, do it all right out in the open. Let the American people make up their own minds.

Bryanisbest said:

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infinity ag said:

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The look was bad. They should have talked this through in private. Fighting in public is not a good look.

Fight all you want inside a room.

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No, do it all right out in the open. Let the American people make up their own minds.

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Exactly.

1. Cut off all funding to Ukraine.

2. Give the Russians access to starlink and cut service to Zelensky's army.

3. Give Putin strategic information as to Ukrainian troop locations and movements. Let Putin overrun the Ukrainians and rid the world of Zelensky. Ukraine won't ever be a member of nato.

4. In repayment for this get Putin to sign over the mineral rights to Ukraine. Work the deal to have American companies profit from the development.

5. As part of the deal have Putin and Syria demolish what's left of Gaza and send every hamashole to
Meet their virgins.

It's a win/win. Putin is a lot easier to deal with than Zelensky plus we need Russia to give us leverage when dealing with the real evil empire, CHINA.

Zalensky is a major idiot, who just ripped his britches. And dumber than a Democrat.

That sounded more like zalensky (sp) was trying to say the old line of "the spread of eastern and Russian influence is something to be stopped and we can do it in Ukraine rather than the US." It came off very wrong in the moment.

This has been the line all along (for better or worse).