Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

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FCBlitz
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1:49p
Neither Trump or Zelensky are dictators.

Zelenskyy really screwed the pooch. This is all on him. Any discussion of Trump/Vance being the blame for this horrible outcome is nonsense.

Now we will have to wait and see if apologies are offered and accepted so a deal can be made.


It really is bazaar to me to see the Ukrainian war that meets all of the metrics of a war that the left have railed against since Vietnam. No accountability, lots of young people dying, costly, corrupt government and yet ……the left is all about making sure that this war is shown as a noble cause and every bad metric is acceptable.

Just weird to see…….
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Bones08
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 1:50p
AG
AgGrad99 said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Because it will take concessions by both sides.

Ukraine is not in a position to negotiate. They need us to assist with that. If they give us minerals, in exchange for leverage, they can negotiate peace.

Without us, they will lose. Trump and JD know this. Russia knows this. Everyone knows this.

But Z is being very very short sighted.
Thanks for the info.

Do you know what the proposed concessions would be from the Russian side? My Google skills are failing me other than Putin saying no to any territorial concessions (from a two week old article so may be outdated).
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aginlakeway
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In reply to FireAg • 1:50p
AG
FireAg said:
Even Zelensky's buddy Lindsey Graham is on TV saying Z absolutely screwed the pooch…

Because he did.
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Teslag
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In reply to Farmer_J • 1:50p
AG
Farmer_J said:
Teslag said:
Farmer_J said:

If the people love zelensky, he won't mind having an election right?


Yes as soon as his constitution allows. Not doing so is what a dictator does.


It's funny watching you twist yourself in knots to defend that puppet


So he should violate his constitution?
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FCBlitz
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In reply to infinity ag • 1:50p
infinity ag said:
Reportedly Z told Vance "F you beach" under his breath in his own Ukrainian.


That would be funny and very bad at the same time.
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flown-the-coop
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In reply to oh no • 1:50p
AG
oh no said:
They just had him on Fox and he seems ok now. He was gushing over how great Trump and Vance were in that meeting.

For that blue & yella underoo wearing warhawk to be almost joyous after that lunch makes me think there is more to all of the theater today.
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Tecolote
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In reply to oh no • 1:50p
AG
oh no said:
Who gives a **** what Lindsey thinks or says. He's such a flip-flopping twerp who takes whatever side and position seems to be popular at the moment. I hate the term, but he is what would fall under the category of RINO
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to infinity ag • 1:51p
infinity ag said:
Ultimately Trump is right that Z holds no cards. He should have just listened to Trump and made the best of it.


Agreed. Frustrating display by all three of them for anyone who actually wants to see peace happen, but especially Zelenskyy. He has to know by now that you have to schmooze Trump in order to have him on your side. Even if he was right about Russia that's not nearly as important to Ukraine at this point as getting the deal done. Hopefully they get it figured out.
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M4 Benelli
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In reply to ProgN • 1:51p
ProgN said:


Real or parody? With this little actor clown, it's hard to tell.

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Teslag
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:51p
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
infinity ag said:
Ultimately Trump is right that Z holds no cards. He should have just listened to Trump and made the best of it.


Agreed. Frustrating display by all three of them for anyone who actually wants to see peace happen, but especially Zelenskyy. He has to know by now that you have to schmooze Trump in order to have him on your side. Even if he was right about Russia that's not nearly as important to Ukraine at this point as getting the deal done. Hopefully they get it figured out.
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TommyBrady
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In reply to Farmer_J • 1:52p
AG
Farmer_J said:
Teslag said:
Farmer_J said:

If the people love zelensky, he won't mind having an election right?


Yes as soon as his constitution allows. Not doing so is what a dictator does.


It's funny watching you twist yourself in knots to defend that puppet


He's a grifter and Zelensky is like the king of grifting. He's his hero
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f1ghtintexasaggie
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In reply to ProgN • 1:54p
ProgN said:


There is zero chance Z said, or even thought, these words today.
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Texas velvet maestro
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In reply to FCBlitz • 1:54p
FCBlitz said:
....

Just weird to see…….
Yeah I don't know what to think about this exchange. Never seen anything like it. It would have been better if they had a piano staged nearby. ...just so everyone remembers who this squirt was pre-Victoria Nuland.
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richardag
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 1:54p
MouthBQ98 said:
Trump hates disrespect but also doesn't hold lasting grudges. If Zelensky will play ball and give Trump a political win, Trump will be cordial and friendly AND will play ball on security also.

All Zelensky had to do is play along and he would get much greater contributions to Ukrainian security, and more pressure on Russia to settle. He just can't bring himself to have to admit them at Ukraine will lose territory from 2014 in a deal.
Zelenski just increased Putin's hand in the negotiations.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
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captkirk
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:54p
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?
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Tom Kazansky 2012
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 1:55p
AG
flown-the-coop said:
oh no said:
They just had him on Fox and he seems ok now. He was gushing over how great Trump and Vance were in that meeting.

For that blue & yella underoo wearing warhawk to be almost joyous after that lunch makes me think there is more to all of the theater today.
Wonder if the people in Ukraine saw the exchange? Do they have free media there?
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AgGrad99
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In reply to Bones08 • 1:55p
AG
Bones08 said:
AgGrad99 said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Because it will take concessions by both sides.

Ukraine is not in a position to negotiate. They need us to assist with that. If they give us minerals, in exchange for leverage, they can negotiate peace.

Without us, they will lose. Trump and JD know this. Russia knows this. Everyone knows this.

But Z is being very very short sighted.
Thanks for the info.

Do you know what the proposed concessions would be from the Russian side? My Google skills are failing me other than Putin saying no to any territorial concessions (from a two week old article so may be outdated).

You're welcome. Seeing as they're in the position of power in this situation, not nearly as much as the Ukraine.

But they won't get any additional territory they dont already occupy, and certainly not the rare earth minerals we'll control. Trump has said they'll have to make additional concessions, but has not specified the details of their talks (so I guess, everyone will decide to believe him or not).

Zelensky is acting like he has the power. He has nothing, and cannot win. He comes waltzing in demanding everything, and lecturing us in front of the world. Even his own tweet seems to recognize he realized he screwed up badly.
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FCBlitz
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1:56p
I think the reality here is Russia doesn't have to give away anything or make concessions. The goal is to get them to stop. That might be hard for folks to understand, but Russia has. a significant say in agreeing to a cease in hostility. Ukraine will at some point have to start drafting their 18 to 21 year olds and they still will not have enough souls to sacrifice 1for 1 with the Russians.

The best outcome is to get Russia to stop attacking and keep what they have won. Honestly who is going to dislodge Russia out of those captured territories?
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Bones08
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 1:56p
AG
AgGrad99 said:
Bones08 said:
AgGrad99 said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Because it will take concessions by both sides.

Ukraine is not in a position to negotiate. They need us to assist with that. If they give us minerals, in exchange for leverage, they can negotiate peace.

Without us, they will lose. Trump and JD know this. Russia knows this. Everyone knows this.

But Z is being very very short sighted.
Thanks for the info.

Do you know what the proposed concessions would be from the Russian side? My Google skills are failing me other than Putin saying no to any territorial concessions (from a two week old article so may be outdated).

You're welcome. Seeing as they're in the position of power in this situation, not nearly as much as the Ukraine.

But they won't get any additional territory they dont already occupy, and certainly not the rare earth minerals we'll control. Trump has said they'll have to make additional concessions, but has not specified the details of their talks.

Zelensky is acting like he has the power. He has nothing, and comes waltzing in demanding everything, and lecturing us in front of the world. Even his own tweet seems to recognize he realized he screwed up badly.
Got it, thanks again.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to captkirk • 1:56p
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.
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oysterbayAG
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1:57p
AG
I think the warmongers in our Congress and the clowns in the European Union have egged on Zalinsky to be a tough guy and undermine Trump. It's going to backfire bigly !
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Teslag
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In reply to FCBlitz • 1:57p
AG
FCBlitz said:
I think the reality here is Russia doesn't have to give away anything or make concessions. The goal is to get them to stop. That might be hard for folks to understand, but Russia has. a significant say in agreeing to a cease in hostility. Ukraine will at some point have to start drafting their 18 to 21 year olds and they still will not have enough souls to sacrifice 1for 1 with the Russians.

The best outcome is to get Russia to stop attacking and keep what they have won. Honestly who is going to dislodge Russia out of those captured territories?


What makes you think Russia just wants what they have?
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Teslag
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:57p
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.


Most posters know he's the invader and support him in doing so.
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JayM
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In reply to strbrst777 • 1:58p
strbrst777 said:
Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Seat of the pants diplomacy. Consider in the history of the world, and Trump is the author policy that leads to the destruction and absorption of Ukraine and then Russia menaces the countries at the front lines of NATO, namely the Baltics and Poland. Throw in Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria.
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captkirk
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:58p
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.
By that logic, Zelensky could end it as well by throwing down his arms. Both sides are going to have to give things up in any peace deal
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Tecolote
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In reply to FCBlitz • 1:58p
AG
FCBlitz said:
I think the reality here is Russia doesn't have to give away anything or make concessions. The goal is to get them to stop. That might be hard for folks to understand, but Russia has. a significant say in agreeing to a cease in hostility. Ukraine will at some point have to start drafting their 18 to 21 year olds and they still will not have enough souls to sacrifice 1for 1 with the Russians.

The best outcome is to get Russia to stop attacking and keep what they have won. Honestly who is going to dislodge Russia out of those captured territories?
Seems Russia is the one running out of soldiers. They have North Koreans being used. That's pretty bad for a country the size and seemingly power of Russia
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Ags4DaWin
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In reply to Silver Arrows • 1:59p
Silver Arrows said:
Trump and JD are trash. Siding with the Russians


Trying to stop war profiteers, WW3, and protect the American people is siding with the Russians now?

Weird how the war hawks have tried to move the goalposts.

Neocons are the worst.
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Tom Kazansky 2012
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In reply to Ags4DaWin • 1:59p
AG
Ags4DaWin said:
Silver Arrows said:
Trump and JD are trash. Siding with the Russians


Trying to stop war profiteers, WW3, and protect the American people is siding with the Russians now?

Weird how the war hawks have tried to move the goalposts.

Neocons are the worst.
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swc93
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1:59p
AG
So much for being respected world leaders. Donald J Krasnov and J pray my gay away Vance have flushed it all down the crapper in less than a month.

Pathetic diplomacy and just another pathetic display with another foreign leader.
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Teslag
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In reply to captkirk • 2:00p
AG
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.
By that logic, Zelensky could end it as well by throwing down his arms. Both sides are going to have to give things up in any peace deal


I'll ask again, what is Russia going to give up?
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Jbob04
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In reply to swc93 • 2:00p
AG
Your concern is noted. I don't think you are cut out for big boy politics.
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rgag12
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 2:00p
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.


Why would he relinquish what a million of his countrymen died to obtain, when he's clearly in the drivers 's seat?

It's way past time to be a righteous stick in the mud. Only pragmatism will help Ukraine keep what country it has left.
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Farmer_J
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In reply to Teslag • 2:00p
Teslag said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.


Most posters know he's the invader and support him in doing so.


You forgot the part where the CIA overthrew Ukraine and installed an anti-Russian government.

Come on, now we just talked about this.
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RafterAg223
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In reply to TommyBrady • 2:01p
AG
TommyBrady said:
Farmer_J said:
Teslag said:
Farmer_J said:

If the people love zelensky, he won't mind having an election right?


Yes as soon as his constitution allows. Not doing so is what a dictator does.


It's funny watching you twist yourself in knots to defend that puppet


He's a grifter and Zelensky is like the king of grifting. He's his hero


Twisted himself in knots the same way for months over his beloved jab. He'll end up wrong about this one too, then who knows what his new handle will be. This guy sings from the same hymnal as people like Adam Kinzinger. It's hilarious.
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Ags4DaWin
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 2:01p
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
captkirk said:
Bones08 said:
I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?
Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

And Putin is?
Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?


If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.


Yep Putin is the invader.

Zelensky and his regime were dictators and tyrants committing crimes against humanity in Donbas, laundering money for corrupt DC politicians, and using their country as a black site for bioweapons manufacturing first though.

Your moral high ground is about the size of an anthill
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