And BTW.. for those who occasionally accuse me of being a DoD contractor stooge, let it be known that I WANT a barebones CR bill that limps us into the Trump administration even though that would likely cost me a paycheck for a while.

For every single one of you saying, pass it now and raise limit…..this is all I hear.

Philip J Fry said:

---

Votes with the rest of the democrats, but because he uses words you like, he's on our side.

---

He didn't "vote with the democrats". That is a lie and you know it.

Democrats voted against it because it didn't spend ENOUGH on their pet projects.

Chip Roy voted against it because it spend the same amount as the 1500 page monstrosity.


If they pushed a bill that Chip wanted, then 100% of democrats would vote against it.

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support politicians who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support people who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

---

You seem to not understand that there are more takers than makers now. Universal suffrage has boned us.

Now it's just math.

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support people who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

---

You seem to not understand that there are more takers than makers now. Universal suffrage has boned us.

Now it's just math.

---

So your solution is to bash the one guy who is actually fighting to do the right thing?

So smart.

So in other words, he voted with the democrats. Got it.

Philip J Fry said:

---

So in other words, he voted with the democrats. Got it.

---

Weird how you are willing to so openly lie like that. You don't feel even a twinge of shame?

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support people who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

---

You seem to not understand that there are more takers than makers now. Universal suffrage has boned us.

Now it's just math.

---

So your solution is to bash the one guy who is actually fighting to do the right thing?

So smart.

---

My solution is to support the guy the US elected to mitigate the damage and expect those in his party to do the same.

Cruz had an informative podcast on this topic today.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chaos-shutdown-what-it-all-means-what-comes-next/id1495601614?i=1000681105052

Near the end, he addresses those pledging to never raise or suspend the debt ceiling (like Roy) to consider the alternative that Mike Johnson faces of getting 218 votes from somewhere or the effects of halting soldier pay and government shutdowns.

AggieKatie2 said:

---

For every single one of you saying, pass it now and raise limit…..this is all I hear.

---

The Trump plan is spend spend spend and all that spend leads to growth coupled with the promise of DOGE to reduce deficits and debt. During his 1st term maybe it was going to work but then Covid happened. Not his fault, **** happens but it hurt us financially.

Now he's back and wants to double down. This time borrow trillions at 5% What if **** happens again? If you're a R and spending is your big priority you can't take that risk again. It grows to $40T before any savings.

Trump hasn't learned you can't negotiate with principled people. To exaggerate the point, it's Israel and Palestine. It's in their DNA.

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support people who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

---

You seem to not understand that there are more takers than makers now. Universal suffrage has boned us.

Now it's just math.

---

So your solution is to bash the one guy who is actually fighting to do the right thing?

So smart.

---

My solution is to support the guy the US elected to mitigate the damage and expect those in his party to do the same.

---

And yet when that guy supports aggravating the damage, you blindly support it and bash the one guy pushing to actually mitigate it.

Makes total sense.

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

Chip is grand standing.

No sense of awareness and will cost his district

---

Dude won his district by 26 freaking points. He has no need to grandstand and will never lose his district as long as he feels like running.

He is one of the few guys in congress taking a principled stand. The fact that you fools oppose him shows why the GOP never win their policy desires.

---

The sides are clearly defined. Democrats always, always stick together, right or wrong.

Trust Trump or continue to bicker for the next 4 years.


Shutting down is a good thing but eventually an agreement must be passed and ol Roy probably screwed his district by becoming the spokes person for the Lizzy Republicans.

Let's watch and see how this plays out.

aTmAg said:

---

Philip J Fry said:

---

So in other words, he voted with the democrats. Got it.

---

Weird how you are willing to so openly lie like that. You don't feel even a twinge of shame?

---

Where is the lie? That's literally what happened. Democrats voted against it. Chip voted against it. Sort of the end of the discussion. Everything else is just you trying to justify it

Lol.

So WHY someone voted against it is irrelevant to you?

Roy wants a 1.5% reduction in spending - based on 2024 outlay - to offset the new 1.5% increase in spending, which makes it a wash.

Yet he's the bad guy here. SMH


FYI:

Quote:

---

In fiscal year (FY) 2024, the Department of the Treasury reported a total deficit of $1.8 trillion, $138 billion more than in FY23.

---

TRM said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Fitch said:

---

This is going to be very common with as small a margin as there is in the House. A single rep out of line or an absolutist voting against on principle will tank the legislative agenda.

---

So who is outta line Trump or Chip? I'll go with Trump on this issue. Debt will kill us as the worlds foremost economy, and probably already has. We are currently paying more To service the debt than we are on defense. Its insane.

---

Trump is going to cut government. He ran on it and has 2 great businessmen leading that effort.

Everyone without severe TDS knows this won't happen right away. So, why shutdown the government right when he takes office? Why keep doing these over and over until he can do something?

It's grandstanding. Create chaos to try to derail actual progress for Trump to do what his mandate from the people is.

---

He ran on cutting the govt in 2016. What cuts did he achieve during his 1st term?

---

Cuts to his 2027 budget

There were other cuts also.

We've been down this road a hundred times. We need to raise it now to cut later…. Later never comes.

The American people clearly said fix it now, and a month later here we are again playing the same game.

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

Chip is grand standing.

No sense of awareness and will cost his district

---

Dude won his district by 26 freaking points. He has no need to grandstand and will never lose his district as long as he feels like running.

He is one of the few guys in congress taking a principled stand. The fact that you fools oppose him shows why the GOP never win their policy desires.

---

The sides are clearly defined. Democrats always, always stick together, right or wrong.

Trust Trump or continue to bicker for the next 4 years.


Shutting down is a good thing but eventually an agreement must be passed and ol Roy probably screwed his district by becoming the spokes person for the Lizzy Republicans.

Let's watch and see how this plays out.

---

The fact that you call a guy who is more conservative than Cruz a "Lizzy republican" tells me all I need to know: You have no clue what is going on.

---

He's got severe TDS. Forget what Trump is going to do. Forget everything but go ahead and go with the left if it hinders Trump. I mean, it will cost money to deport the millions of illegals. It will cost money to pay the severance that the swamp will get to can their ass. But, we need cuts RIGHT NOW.

OK, how about do something other than vote no. I've not seen a plan from this guy that funds the items Trump wants. Just *****, moan and get in Trump's way.

Science Denier said:

---

TRM said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Fitch said:

---

This is going to be very common with as small a margin as there is in the House. A single rep out of line or an absolutist voting against on principle will tank the legislative agenda.

---

So who is outta line Trump or Chip? I'll go with Trump on this issue. Debt will kill us as the worlds foremost economy, and probably already has. We are currently paying more To service the debt than we are on defense. Its insane.

---

Trump is going to cut government. He ran on it and has 2 great businessmen leading that effort.

Everyone without severe TDS knows this won't happen right away. So, why shutdown the government right when he takes office? Why keep doing these over and over until he can do something?

It's grandstanding. Create chaos to try to derail actual progress for Trump to do what his mandate from the people is.

---

He ran on cutting the govt in 2016. What cuts did he achieve during his 1st term?

---

Cuts to his 2027 budget

There were other cuts also.

---

That's a great plan he had in 2017, but again which of those cuts actually got passed?

aTmAg said:

---

Philip J Fry said:

---

Votes with the rest of the democrats, but because he uses words you like, he's on our side.

---

He didn't "vote with the democrats". That is a lie and you know it.

Democrats voted against it because it didn't spend ENOUGH on their pet projects.

Chip Roy voted against it because it spend the same amount as the 1500 page monstrosity.


If they pushed a bill that Chip wanted, then 100% of democrats would vote against it.

---

Not technically correct, but close enough. (And that's what had me initially confused..._)

It didn't specifically spend as much as the original 1500 page bill on specific projects.

What Trump attempted to insert was a continuation of "ZERO DEBT LIMIT" that we're currently operating under and that sunsets on Jan. 1.

(And by the way, CR =/= Extension of Debt Ceiling... Two completely different things. Trump had the extension added to 2.0 version.)

In other words, a continuation of a zero limit credit card to do just about anything Republicans OR Democrats want over the NEXT TWO YEARS.

This is what Roy objects to, and I agree with Roy.

I like Trump. That doesn't mean he's worthy of zero oversight and a blank check to spending money on whatever the hell he wants over the next two years. That's what Trump inserted into the reduced bill.

$54B in cuts is wiped out by the rise in interest expense in the incremental new debt alone. Even if the the 54B is doubles it's not enough,

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

PA24 said:

---

DeSantis crowd just can't let go.

Deviously tasteful tears of bitterness…

BTW Lizzy was a DeSantis groupie

---

The irony of this post and not letting go, lol.

---

Yup the usual boot lickers are gonna lick. Its always the same 20 or so brain off populist that have no idea what conservatism is.

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

And yet you still didn't answer my question. Do you believe SS will be eliminated in the next 4 years? 8?

If not, what you want is a fantasy?

The only thing that will fix it is collapse.

---

No I don't, because too many people like you are weak willed and refuse to support people who would actually have it happen. As this thread proves.

---

You seem to not understand that there are more takers than makers now. Universal suffrage has boned us.

Now it's just math.

---

So your solution is to bash the one guy who is actually fighting to do the right thing?

So smart.

---

My solution is to support the guy the US elected to mitigate the damage and expect those in his party to do the same.

---

And yet when that guy supports aggravating the damage, you blindly support it and bash the one guy pushing to actually mitigate it.

Makes total sense.

---

Let's revisit this every 12/20 and see who was right on whether SS will continue to exist.

It will until one of three things changes. You're dead. I'm dead. The nation collapsed.

I'lll keep voting to keep more of my money until one of those occurs.

Science Denier said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

Chip is grand standing.

No sense of awareness and will cost his district

---

Dude won his district by 26 freaking points. He has no need to grandstand and will never lose his district as long as he feels like running.

He is one of the few guys in congress taking a principled stand. The fact that you fools oppose him shows why the GOP never win their policy desires.

---

The sides are clearly defined. Democrats always, always stick together, right or wrong.

Trust Trump or continue to bicker for the next 4 years.


Shutting down is a good thing but eventually an agreement must be passed and ol Roy probably screwed his district by becoming the spokes person for the Lizzy Republicans.

Let's watch and see how this plays out.

---

The fact that you call a guy who is more conservative than Cruz a "Lizzy republican" tells me all I need to know: You have no clue what is going on.

---

He's got severe TDS. Forget what Trump is going to do. Forget everything but go ahead and go with the left if it hinders Trump. I mean, it will cost money to deport the millions of illegals. It will cost money to pay the severance that the swamp will get to can their ass. But, we need cuts RIGHT NOW.

OK, how about do something other than vote no. I've not seen a plan from this guy that funds the items Trump wants. Just *****, moan and get in Trump's way.

---

That is just as coherent as the left saying that if you don't want to raise the budget, you want to starve children and make old widows eat cat food.

Funding Trumps agenda can be done just fine by cutting the budget in other areas. But maybe that is too complicated of an idea for some here.

According to the Trumpist on this thread, we cannot have the debt ceiling because it will constrain trump's spending so much it will threaten his entire agenda and that's why it needs to be suspended for the next two years.

But, remember. Trump is not a conservative, fiscally or otherwise. He is a populist, so he is not overly concerned with reducing any deficit or debt so long as the money being spent or costs incurred primarily benefits the American people instead of foreign nations.

I generally agree that the debt ceiling needs to be done away with if it's never actually observed.

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

Chip is grand standing.

No sense of awareness and will cost his district

---

Dude won his district by 26 freaking points. He has no need to grandstand and will never lose his district as long as he feels like running.

He is one of the few guys in congress taking a principled stand. The fact that you fools oppose him shows why the GOP never win their policy desires.

---

The sides are clearly defined. Democrats always, always stick together, right or wrong.

Trust Trump or continue to bicker for the next 4 years.


Shutting down is a good thing but eventually an agreement must be passed and ol Roy probably screwed his district by becoming the spokes person for the Lizzy Republicans.

Let's watch and see how this plays out.

---

The fact that you call a guy who is more conservative than Cruz a "Lizzy republican" tells me all I need to know: You have no clue what is going on.

---

Sadly, when every one of someone's political opinions is basically - does Trump support this, they don't need to bother understanding it.

TRM said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

TRM said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Fitch said:

---

This is going to be very common with as small a margin as there is in the House. A single rep out of line or an absolutist voting against on principle will tank the legislative agenda.

---

So who is outta line Trump or Chip? I'll go with Trump on this issue. Debt will kill us as the worlds foremost economy, and probably already has. We are currently paying more To service the debt than we are on defense. Its insane.

---

Trump is going to cut government. He ran on it and has 2 great businessmen leading that effort.

Everyone without severe TDS knows this won't happen right away. So, why shutdown the government right when he takes office? Why keep doing these over and over until he can do something?

It's grandstanding. Create chaos to try to derail actual progress for Trump to do what his mandate from the people is.

---

He ran on cutting the govt in 2016. What cuts did he achieve during his 1st term?

---

Cuts to his 2027 budget

There were other cuts also.

---

That's a great plan he had in 2017, but again which of those cuts actually got passed?

---

Problem is was stated in the article;

• Congress will have the final say, and lawmakers have already expressed opposition to many of the proposals.

Who?mikejones! said:

---

According to the Trumpist on this thread, we cannot have the debt ceiling because it will constraints trump spending so much it will threaten his entire agenda and that's why it needs to be suspended for the next two years.

But, remember. Trump is not a conservative, fiscally or otherwise. He is a populist, so he is not overly concerned with reducing any deficit or debt so long as the money being spent or costs incurred primarily benefits the American people instead of foreign nations.

I generally agree that the debt ceiling needs to be done away with if it's never actually observed.

---

According to TDS, we have to shut down the government THIS TIME because Trump actually may spend money on things like finishing the wall, paying severance and deporting millions of illegals.

If course, they have had 4 years to do whatever needed to be done, but just let everything go. But NOW is the time to not fund all the things the country gave Trump the mandate to do. NOW is the time to shut everything down.

You can believe that BS, or just realize that the TDS of those that don't like Trump are just trying to stand in his way and voting along with the Democrats.

I give you example A

Who?mikejones! said:

---

But, remember. Trump is not a conservative, fiscally or otherwise. He is a populist, so he is not overly concerned with reducing any deficit or debt so long as the money being spent or costs incurred primarily benefits the American people instead of foreign nations.

---

I agree with this statement. I also believe there is enough fat & bloat in government that Trump's agenda can be achieved while still moving to reduce spending overall, and slowing the increase in the national debt.

Without constraints, Trump will not bother to be efficient in what he does, and it will result in a massive blowup between him and Musk/Ramaswamy sooner than later.

Trump needs to use those constraints and good messaging to be responsible fiscally and shine the light on members of government who have lived off the public teat for too long.

Just because it's the easiest path for Trump doesn't mean it's the best for the country. Chip Roy is technically in the right here, imo. The wiseness of the politics can be debated if v2.0 was always destined to fail due to Democrat opposition.

Who?mikejones! said:

---

According to the Trumpist on this thread, we cannot have the debt ceiling because it will constrain trump's spending so much it will threaten his entire agenda and that's why it needs to be suspended for the next two years.

But, remember. Trump is not a conservative, fiscally or otherwise. He is a populist, so he is not overly concerned with reducing any deficit or debt so long as the money being spent or costs incurred primarily benefits the American people instead of foreign nations.

I generally agree that the debt ceiling needs to be done away with if it's never actually observed.

---

I disagree with the bold. Debt ceiling is the last control for out of control spending. Yes I know that it's always increased but its usually increased with conditions. Without the debt ceiling, these politicians would never stop to discuss spend or make it into an issue.